So you've decided to pull rocks up hills with your Corolla...

[LTC8K6]

Now here's a world first. Jules going on record to say that if you scale a vehicle from the size of a Honda CRV all the way up to an 18 wheel big rig, the diesel engine no longer gets better fuel mileage.

I've seen some weird things on this forum, but this one takes it.

Diesel is more expensive here in the states. Much more.

So why aren't the big rigs gasoline powered? Why aren't the locomotives gasoline powered? Why aren't the big earth movers gasoline powered?

Because the diesel engine is still more efficient at moving the really big loads.

 

[JulesMaximus]

Now here's a world first. Jules going on record to say that if you scale a vehicle from the size of a Honda CRV all the way up to an 18 wheel big rig, the diesel engine no longer gets better fuel mileage.

I've seen some weird things on this forum, but this one takes it.

Shawn Math
[shaw-n math]
Taking a bunch of random numbers you pulled out of your ass and make a bunch of useless equations to try to convince readers that you just proved a ridiculous premise you made in an earlier post.

 

[IcePickFreak]

Now here's a world first. Jules going on record to say that if you scale a vehicle from the size of a Honda CRV all the way up to an 18 wheel big rig, the diesel engine no longer gets better fuel mileage.

I've seen some weird things on this forum, but this one takes it.

That's the worst "come out the closet" troll moment I've seen yet.

 

[punjabiplaya]

this thread is now about radioactive Japanese cars

 

[LTC8K6]

this thread is now about radioactive Japanese cars

Does that advance or retard...retard...the timing?

 

[punjabiplaya]

Does that advance or retard...retard...the timing?

 

[ShawnD1]

Shawn Math
[shaw-n math]
Taking a bunch of random numbers you pulled out of your ass and make a bunch of useless equations to try to convince readers that you just proved a ridiculous premise you made in an earlier post.

I said diesel has higher energy density and you're saying me and 50,000 other expert climate scientists are all wrong.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diesel...d_disadvantages_versus_spark-ignition_engines

Diesel engines are more efficient than gasoline (petrol) engines of the same power rating, resulting in lower fuel consumption. A common margin is 40 percent more miles per gallon for an efficient turbodiesel.
...
However, such a comparison does not take into account that diesel fuel is denser and contains about 15 percent more energy by volume.
...
While a higher compression ratio is helpful in raising efficiency, diesel engines are much more efficient than gasoline (petrol) engines when at low power and at engine idle. Unlike the petrol engine, diesels lack a butterfly valve (throttle) in the inlet system, which closes at idle. This creates parasitic loss and destruction of availability of the incoming air, reducing the efficiency of petrol engines at idle

Different towing rpm also has a strong effect on gas mileage. A high torque diesel can get away with 1000-2000rpm operation while towing full load. A gasoline engine would be running twice as fast just to have the same amount of torque at the wheels, and keeping the rpm too high ruins gas mileage.


chicago gasoline - $3.60 per gallon give or take
chicago diesel - $3.85 (7% more expensive, but fuel mileage improves by 20-40%)

 

[JulesMaximus]

I said diesel has higher energy density and you're saying me and 50,000 other expert climate scientists are all wrong.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diesel...d_disadvantages_versus_spark-ignition_engines

Different towing rpm also has a strong effect on gas mileage. A high torque diesel can get away with 1000-2000rpm operation while towing full load. A gasoline engine would be running twice as fast just to have the same amount of torque at the wheels, and keeping the rpm too high ruins gas mileage.


chicago gasoline - $3.60 per gallon give or take
chicago diesel - $3.85 (7% more expensive, but fuel mileage improves by 20-40%)

That's not what I said at all...I was responding to this comment:

What does a 2L gas and a 2.2L diesel Honda Accord have anything to do with fuel costs of a tractor-trailer? Things don't scale up in a straight linear line.

And all I said was that they do if you use Shawn math. How you got to this point is beyond me.

 

[LTC8K6]

Midwest/Chicago has "special" gasoline, I believe, which you probably know and that's why you picked it.

Here in central NC, the price is 3.41 for regular unleaded and about 3.87 for diesel.

Factor in the extra cost of the car, and you're not gaining much if anything with a diesel car.

 

[JCH13]

And all I said was that they do if you use Shawn math. How you got to this point is beyond me.

Anything is possible when you use SD1 math! Also, anything anyone else ever says is wrong, according to SD1 math.

 

[JulesMaximus]

Anything is possible when you use SD1 math! Also, anything any else every says is wrong, according to SD1 math.

:thumbsup: 50,000 expert climate scientists can't possibly be wrong!

 

[IcePickFreak]

And all I said was that they do if you use Shawn math. How you got to this point is beyond me.

He's grasping for something to go on about and arguing with himself now. He start's a thread about regularly towing with a Corolla is ok (and then links a vid of a different car doing it once) and in the same thread is now trying to argue with everyone that a diesel is better for towing.

 

[JCH13]

He's grasping for something to go on about and arguing with himself now. He start's a thread about regularly towing with a Corolla is ok (and then links a vid of a different car doing it once) and in the same thread is now trying to argue with everyone that a diesel is better for towing.

In another thread he was arguing against diesels for their lack of power and therefore poor towing capability.

 

[JulesMaximus]

In another thread he was arguing against diesels for their lack of power and therefore poor towing capability.

This guy has more contradictions than the bible...

 

[zerocool84]

Lol @ thread backfire on OP

That's why I didn't need to read or watch the video to comment on the OP. He has gone through this crap multiple times in other threads trying to prove his point but is always shut down.

 

[ShawnD1]

That's why I didn't need to read or watch the video to comment on the OP. He has gone through this crap multiple times in other threads trying to prove his point but is always shut down.

AT Garage is filled with self hate and that is why AT Garage cannot accept reality which is in essence real.

So here's a list of things ATG members have claimed in this thread:
-the car in the video never actually climbed the hill and it's a conspiracy to make viewers think it happened
-the car did tow the caravan up the hill, but the transmission will melt if you try it again
-the car will tow up the hill and the transmission will last, but only because it's a diesel engines and diesel engines never have broken transmissions
-gasoline powered vehicles (ie Ford F150) could never pull such a vehicle up a hill because gasoline engines spin too fast and this fast spinning makes the transmission melt


So basically the conclusion of this thread that many of you got was that the ONLY reason it could pull up the hill is because it was a diesel. Is that about right? That seems to be what I'm getting. Every time I say something about spin the engine faster or give it more gas, I get the answer that the transmission will melt and that a diesel should be used.

 

[Capt Caveman]

So basically the conclusion of this thread that many of you got was that the ONLY reason it could pull up the hill is because it was a diesel. Is that about right? That seems to be what I'm getting. Every time I say something about spin the engine faster or give it more gas, I get the answer that the transmission will melt and that a diesel should be used.

/facepalm

You might be a bigger moran than Fleabag.

 

[Demo24]

Somehow sd1 has managed to conclude that since a diesel kia with a manual transmission managed to tow about 2k pounds (most likely braked) and didn't blow up, although it was clearly strained, his toyota automatic transmission is horrendously bad.

 

[ShawnD1]

/facepalm

You might be a bigger moran than Fleabag.

You can say they're dumb posts all you want but they were posted.



here's one guy saying it never actually went up a hill, it's a conspiracy, BBC is convincing people that manufacturer tow ratings are all made up:

Yes, it can't pull the load, like everyone said. We are glad you finally see that and have admitted it, with video.

Here's one guy saying the only reason a caravan can be pulled up a hill is because it's a 1.5L diesel engine. (diesel engines run on pure magic). He also took the time to include racial slurs. A mook is a slang word for an Italian.

The car chosen was a turbo diesel, you fucking mook. It's going to be a million times more capable than your Toyota Fridge.

Here's one saying the transmission will still melt even when used within the manufacturer specifications:

Smoking is not bad for a person because i've never seen one die after a smoke? Or doing crack is not bad because most people don't die after their first try?

Did your car's transmission melt immediately during or after towing something?

Jules claims that it's rotation speed destroying the transmission, not power delivery. This one is probably true at least to some degree, but still, the people writing the specs say that a gasoline powered Honda can pull a trailer equal to its own weight (3600 for the accord, 2600 for the civic, etc).

Heat is what kills transmissions. And running at a high engine speed for long periods of time generates a lot more heat than running at a lower engine speed. This is why vehicles made for towing come with transmission coolers and diesel engines and heavy duty chassis and brakes...all things your Corolla doesn't have.

All I ever really do around here is post videos of people doing things (Top Gear) and then post numbers provided by manufacturers. I'm not the one claiming that a Honda Accord can pull 3600 pounds up a hill. Honda is the one saying that, Honda seems to know what they're doing, so I trust that Honda is correct on this stuff.

 

[DivideBYZero]

You can say they're dumb posts all you want but they were posted.



here's one guy saying it never actually went up a hill, it's a conspiracy, BBC is convincing people that manufacturer tow ratings are all made up:



Here's one guy saying the only reason a caravan can be pulled up a hill is because it's a 1.5L diesel engine. (diesel engines run on pure magic). He also took the time to include racial slurs. A mook is a slang word for an Italian.



Here's one saying the transmission will still melt even when used within the manufacturer specifications:



Jules claims that it's rotation speed destroying the transmission, not power delivery. This one is probably true at least to some degree, but still, the people writing the specs say that a gasoline powered Honda can pull a trailer equal to its own weight (3600 for the accord, 2600 for the civic, etc).




All I ever really do around here is post videos of people doing things (Top Gear) and then post numbers provided by manufacturers. I'm not the one claiming that a Honda Accord can pull 3600 pounds up a hill. Honda is the one saying that, Honda seems to know what they're doing, so I trust that Honda is correct on this stuff.

Just fuck off, ShawnD1.

Quote me if you agree.

 

[Meghan54]

The US always quotes un-braked as the max, again AFAIK).

Nope. While you do have to look for the information, max towed loads in the U.S. are braked beyond what the manufacturer recommends for non-braked towing capacity. It's all related to the brakes on the tow vehicle.

For instance, my '02 Blazer has a max towing capacity of 5200#, but GM recommends brakes on the trailer once you pass 1000# of towed load. Ford states much the same thing....1500# of towed load before needing brakes. This is due to the companies stating the brakes of the respective vehicles are rated for GVWR, not GCWR (Gross Combined Weight Rating....the total weight rating of loaded vehicle + loaded trailer.)

But each state has put their own non-braked vs. braked requirements based on weight, and they're all over the place---from as low as 1000# to as high as 3000#.

Personally, brakes added once I hit 1500#. Makes stopping much less of an adventure and much less wear and tear and stress on the towed vehicle's braking system.

 

[Beef Taco]

Jesus. How did you conjure up all of that out of what those people said. I'm only going to go over one of those quotes because this is just too hilarious and it would not be worth it to go over everything. Your evaluation of what everyone is saying is ridiculous but congratulations on trolling.

DivideBYZero simply said that that diesel was more capable of towing than your car (and that your car is related to a household appliance). No where did he say that the ONLY reason it could tow the caravan was because it was a diesel.

 

[DivideBYZero]

I also related his car to a household appliance.

 

[JulesMaximus]

My first job out of college was working for a car rental agency as a manager trainee. We used to pick up and deliver cars by towing a car behind the rental vehicle (typically a Plymouth Reliant/Ford Taurus/Tempo/or a minivan). The towed vehicle was a tiny stripped down Dodge Colt 2 door weighing about 2400lbs with manual transmission and we used a drop down A shaped hitch to attach to a bar clamped to the rear bumper of the vehicle doing to towing. So you have a midsize sedan towing a compact two door car with no brake assist from the car being towed...hell, no lights for that matter, I think we just put the hazards on in the car being towed. This was in the late 1980s.

Being that the towed vehicle had no brakes whatsoever the vehicle doing the towing had to stop its weight plus the weight of the car behind it. I can tell you this for certain, it is amazing we didn't have more crashes because of that setup and that it was legal at all. I remember following a guy up to a light when he suddenly decided to slam on his brakes. The tow car pushed up the rear end of the car I was driving and started sliding the rear end around, jack knifing the two vehicles. I managed to stop in time without hitting the guy in front of me and without the two vehicles I was in control of causing damage to each other but it wasn't pretty...and it's not something I'd ever care to repeat. Emergency maneuvers like this were an ass puckering moment for sure and you definitely didn't want to even try driving this combination in the snow or you were in for an emergency maneuver...or 10.

The company eventually bought half ton pickup trucks with a tow dolly which worked much better, more stable but still didn't have brakes on the dolly so emergency stops could be a little dicey. I worked there for a few years and towed vehicles around all day every day. The cars handled it fine but it was not a good way to pick up and deliver cars and we were welcome to get the trucks when they changed over. I don't know why they changed but it wouldn't surprise me if it was because of the wear and tear on the vehicles and the accidents that occurred or maybe state legislation...probably the latter. The only other time I've seen a car towed in the manner this company used to do it is behind an RV.

It was basically this kind of setup but the vehicle doing the towing was a late 80s Dodge Aries K-Car which is not a substantial vehicle to begin with.

There's no way in hell I'd tow 3600lbs without brake assist behind an Accord I can tell you that. You are basically asking that vehicle to tow its own weight plus the weight of an equal vehicle but rely only on the engine and brakes of the driven vehicle yet half that weight is on a pivot point out behind the rear wheels of the car with all the control...what little there is of it. Not a good call. Some might say it's a recipe for disaster.

I sometimes wonder if engineers give any thought at all to the tow ratings they apply to a vehicle...or if they assign them based solely on ideal conditions and computer models.

 

[Beef Taco]

I also related his car to a household appliance.

That was the best part, I fixed my post.