So you've decided to pull rocks up hills with your Corolla...

[jlee]

That's a fair point. Given they shouldn't be pulling more than ~3500 or so, their trailer is most likely similar to the lightest one on this list here. For a ~3700lb trailer, the tongue is 290lbs. So basically that means leave the girlfriend at home so the car stays under GVWR 😀



Let's look it up together. 6500 pounds for the trailer.

Ford Ranger
"Regular Cab, Super Cab, Double Cab 4x4: Unbraked 750 kg*; Braked 3000 kg*"

3000kg is 6613 pounds. As long as your plastic cups and nylon underwear weigh less than 100 pounds, you're good to go :thumbsup:

did you miss this?

*In some situations ‘4L’ may need to be used.

Sure, you can tow it...if you want to move it across your yard.

 

[IcePickFreak]

I'm watching Top Gear videos on youtube. This one in particular seemed oddly familiar.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iN7jmLeiJhE

I remember a while back we had a thread about pulling camping trailers with a small truck (or I derailed a thread by saying something about this). AT Garage immediately responds by saying such a feat is absolutely impossible, there's no way god would allow such a thing to happen, and having anything less than 10 cylinders in a towing vehicle is blasphemy. Here in the UK, we pray to a different god, and that god does allow such things to happen. The guys on Top Gear managed to get 3 fully grown adults in a car with a 1.5L engine and pull a respectable size camping trailer up hills. Did the engine fuck up? No. Did the transmission melt? No. Is it possible to pull a camping trailer with a piece of shit car? Absolutely.
You'll notice that while going up the hill, they're stuck going 30mph at full throttle. That vehicle truly is pushed as hard as it can go, and it's not fucking up.

Absolute video proof that my failed transmission is because Toyota vehicles are designed by retards. That Kia has even less power capability than my Corolla and its transmission managed to not melt.

Absolute? 😵 I see your reasoning is right on par with your mechanical aptitude.

 

[Demo24]

T

Ford Ranger
"Regular Cab, Super Cab, Double Cab 4x4: Unbraked 750 kg*; Braked 3000 kg*"

3000kg is 6613 pounds. As long as your plastic cups and nylon underwear weigh less than 100 pounds, you're good to go :thumbsup:

First of all '4l' as Jlee pointed out, aka a rather low gear meaning your engine spins a good bit and the wheels don't.

Secondly I don't think you understand how large that Ranger is. It is NOT the same ranger we get in the states and is much closer in size to the F150 we do have. It is not quite as wide though. Obviously such a large vehicle would be problematic in England.

Thirdly, 250-280 torques available at practically idle means you can tow a decent bit.

Finally, BRAKED. Without a braked trailer its only 1600 lbs, or effectively what many cars are rated to. However cars rarely have braking hook ups or the ability to handle 6k pounds in weight attached to the rear. There's a reason trucks have solid rail frames as this provides the best weight handling, unibodies do not.

 

[ShawnD1]

Sure, you can tow it...if you want to move it across your yard.

Yeah but is it against the law to drive too slow? If the police refuse to arrest people who merge at 30mph when a car is hauling nothing, then it seems only fair that the police also not-arrest people who go 30mph because they are pulling a fifth wheel camper with a Ford Ranger.

It should also be noted that retards who aren't carrying anything slow down on hills anyway, so you probably wouldn't notice that the Ford Ranger or Top Gear car is running full throttle. On my trips out to where I go camping, it's not unusual to see idiots in minivans slow down to a ridiculous 50mph when going up a hill even though the speed limit is 65mph. There's also a hill downtown in my city where the speed limit is 40mph and I manage to pass everyone just by going the speed limit.

 

[ShawnD1]

(talking about a diesel engine)
Thirdly, 250-280 torques available at practically idle means you can tow a decent bit.

What does it matter? If you're using a gasoline engine, the only difference is that you're running at double the rpm. Pulling a fiberglass boat behind a 4 cylinder Toyota Tacoma or Ford Ranger feels a lot like driving a Geo Metro with 4 people in it. On the highway, it's at a constant 4000rpm or higher just to maintain speed.

This was pointed out many times before. Running at high load all the time doesn't destroy the engine anywhere near as much as it destroys the transmission. What is so special about the diesel model that its transmission is bulletproof while the transmission connected to the gas engine disintegrates?

 

[sdifox]

What does it matter? If you're using a gasoline engine, the only difference is that you're running at double the rpm. Pulling a fiberglass boat behind a 4 cylinder Toyota Tacoma or Ford Ranger feels a lot like driving a Geo Metro with 4 people in it. On the highway, it's at a constant 4000rpm or higher just to maintain speed.

This was pointed out many times before. Running at high load all the time doesn't destroy the engine anywhere near as much as it destroys the transmission. What is so special about the diesel model that its transmission is bulletproof while the transmission connected to the gas engine disintegrates?

trannies are matched to engines based on the engines' output profiles and intended use...

 

[jlee]

Yeah but is it against the law to drive too slow? If the police refuse to arrest people who merge at 30mph when a car is hauling nothing, then it seems only fair that the police also not-arrest people who go 30mph because they are pulling a fifth wheel camper with a Ford Ranger.

It should also be noted that retards who aren't carrying anything slow down on hills anyway, so you probably wouldn't notice that the Ford Ranger or Top Gear car is running full throttle. On my trips out to where I go camping, it's not unusual to see idiots in minivans slow down to a ridiculous 50mph when going up a hill even though the speed limit is 65mph. There's also a hill downtown in my city where the speed limit is 40mph and I manage to pass everyone just by going the speed limit.

Yes.

Do you have any idea what "low range" is? You'll be doing maybe 20mph, let alone 50. Also, 4wd is not designed for use on dry pavement.

 

[ShawnD1]

Yes. Do you have any idea what low range means? You'll be doing maybe 20mph.

I've seen big rigs do that before and nobody seems to give them shit for it. Ironically those people are less of an obstruction because it's a lot easier to pass people who are going super slow. At 20mph, small cars like mine still have lots of kick and can go around very easily. It's the guys doing 50mph that cause massive traffic jams because small cars like mine can't pass at that speed.

Also, 4wd is not designed for use on dry pavement.

It's only for starting the vehicle. Depending on the vehicle, you can pop out of L once the vehicle is moving.

trannies are matched to engines based on the engines' output profiles and intended use

Does it count as intended use when the manufacturer says it's capable of pulling a certain amount of weight? For things like Honda saying a regular 2.4L gasoline Accord can pull 3600 pounds, it doesn't even have a star next to it saying *towing package only*. It just says a number. I would assume that means the tranny is built to pull the car and 3600 pounds up a hill at full throttle.

 

[ShawnD1]

Playing around with Toyota's website, it looks like their tow ratings aren't even based on what kind of engine it has. Toyota Hilux specs.
3.0L diesel manual, 3.0L diesel automatic, and 2.5L diesel manual all have the exact same tow capacity.

 

[996GT2]

Lol @ thread backfire on OP

 

[JulesMaximus]

What does it matter? If you're using a gasoline engine, the only difference is that you're running at double the rpm. Pulling a fiberglass boat behind a 4 cylinder Toyota Tacoma or Ford Ranger feels a lot like driving a Geo Metro with 4 people in it. On the highway, it's at a constant 4000rpm or higher just to maintain speed.

This was pointed out many times before. Running at high load all the time doesn't destroy the engine anywhere near as much as it destroys the transmission. What is so special about the diesel model that its transmission is bulletproof while the transmission connected to the gas engine disintegrates?

Heat is what kills transmissions. And running at a high engine speed for long periods of time generates a lot more heat than running at a lower engine speed. This is why vehicles made for towing come with transmission coolers and diesel engines and heavy duty chassis and brakes...all things your Corolla doesn't have. Diesel engines don't rev very high and they make a lot of torque at low rpms so a truck or car with a diesel engine will have different gearing to take advantage of that depending on the intended purpose of the vehicle.

 

[LTC8K6]

http://www.ford.co.uk/Commercialvehicles/Ranger/BrochurePricesSpecifications

Better check the actual brochure before you decide what that UK Ranger can pull. Make sure you read the fine print, too.

 

[ShawnD1]

http://www.ford.co.uk/Commercialvehicles/Ranger/BrochurePricesSpecifications

Better check the actual brochure before you decide what that UK Ranger can pull. Make sure you read the fine print, too.

Ford Fail. Their brochure doesn't even have searchable text. I need to run this shit through Adobe's OCR. I guess their quality qontrol in UK is just as bad as US :'(

Anyway, this is what the fine print says in the brochure you linked. Go go Adobe OCR.

Ford Ranger has the best towing
abil~ in its class:
- Regular Cab 4x2: Unbraked 750 kg;
Braked 1600 kg
- Regular Cab, Super Cab, Double
Cab 4x4: Unbraked 750 kg";
Braked 3000 kg"
"In _li\ultions ''IL' mly nlld 10 I» UIId.
NoIII When. YIIhlctll II IItIed with Ilnllef 1I:Iachment, 1111 I'8COlI'II1l1ndllld
that. taeIlOWlPh II fitted, "ce 11111 ability 10 low II tl'llUer glYlng • G1TM or
OYW 360D kg without. t.chogr.ph muld be consld,lMIto be aJntrary 10
EU and UK rmd tndIIc law.

So you need a "tachograph"


Seems like the only consistent thing between UK and US is that the Prius is rated for 0 towing in both regions.

 

[DivideBYZero]

http://www.ford.co.uk/Commercialvehicles/Ranger/BrochurePricesSpecifications

Better check the actual brochure before you decide what that UK Ranger can pull. Make sure you read the fine print, too.

Indeed. The real max should be the 4x2 number of 1600Kg, braked(this is the main difference between US & UK AFAIK. The US always quotes un-braked as the max, again AFAIK). I wouldn't get excited about the headline 3000Kg number due to the need to use low range to get it moving...

 

[jlee]

Indeed. The real max should be the 4x2 number of 1600Kg, braked(this is the main difference between US & UK AFAIK. The US always quotes un-braked as the max, again AFAIK). I wouldn't get excited about the headline 3000Kg number due to the need to use low range to get it moving...

Can you shift out of 4lo in a Ranger when you're moving? I don't think I have ever driven a 4x4 truck that could do that.

 

[Demo24]

What does it matter? If you're using a gasoline engine, the only difference is that you're running at double the rpm. Pulling a fiberglass boat behind a 4 cylinder Toyota Tacoma or Ford Ranger feels a lot like driving a Geo Metro with 4 people in it. On the highway, it's at a constant 4000rpm or higher just to maintain speed.

?

Exactly, double the RPM. When you can get something moving with all the available pulling power of the engine at just off idle that will be a superior towing machine. No ifs ands or buts there. Theres a reason why big rigs are all diesels, and surprise the engines usually redline before 3k. They tend to make most of their power in varying ranges from 1200-2500, depending on engine this is a wide generalization. Quite often the 'powerband' is much shorter than this, hence one reason they shift so much..apart from the low gear.

Can you shift out of 4lo in a Ranger when you're moving? I don't think I have ever driven a 4x4 truck that could do that.

I want to say newer electronically controlled ones can do this.

 

[jlee]

I want to say newer electronically controlled ones can do this.

My Tundra was push-button, shift on the fly 4hi, etc. I didn't use 4 low often, but I'm 99% positive that was a "stop and shift into park or neutral" affair.

 

[ShawnD1]

Exactly, double the RPM. When you can get something moving with all the available pulling power of the engine at just off idle that will be a superior towing machine. No ifs ands or buts there. Theres a reason why big rigs are all diesels,

They use manual with a diesel because the fuel cost is significantly less. Just look at the difference for a simple Honda then use your imagination to scale it up to a big rig. here.
2.0L petrol automatic - 41.5mpg highway (extra urban means highway)
2.2L diesel manual - 50.4mpg

That's about 21% difference. For a truck pulling 50 tons from sea to sea, that adds up to many thousands of dollars of fuel difference.

 

[EightySix Four]

My Tundra was push-button, shift on the fly 4hi, etc. I didn't use 4 low often, but I'm 99% positive that was a "stop and shift into park or neutral" affair.

I don't know if it has changed, but my Ford required you to stop and shift into neutral to go 4-Low. It could change from 2wd to 4hi without it though.

 

[Demo24]

My Tundra was push-button, shift on the fly 4hi, etc. I didn't use 4 low often, but I'm 99% positive that was a "stop and shift into park or neutral" affair.

Yes, looks like this is correct. I think I was getting confused with shifting into and out of 4wd. However with some research it does appear you could do the 4lo to 4hi with a stick based model, the thing is it's like shifting an unsycronized transmission so you'd have to figure out the right timing, etc. Electronic ones won't let this happen. Perhaps some of the rather advanced 4wd systems out there could do this though, not sure.

 

[DivideBYZero]

Can you shift out of 4lo in a Ranger when you're moving? I don't think I have ever driven a 4x4 truck that could do that.

I don't know, and I wouldn't suggest it as a solution. You're obviously lugging something that probably shouldn't be hauled on the highway. LIke you said, useful for tugging something on a work site, but not the road.

You can change between low and high range in a Subaru (with dual range) by just using the clutch. I have no idea about the Ranger.

 

[IcePickFreak]

They use manual with a diesel because the fuel cost is significantly less. Just look at the difference for a simple Honda then use your imagination to scale it up to a big rig. here.
2.0L petrol automatic - 41.5mpg highway (extra urban means highway)
2.2L diesel manual - 50.4mpg

That's about 21% difference. For a truck pulling 50 tons from sea to sea, that adds up to many thousands of dollars of fuel difference.

What does a 2L gas and a 2.2L diesel Honda Accord have anything to do with fuel costs of a tractor-trailer? Things don't scale up in a straight linear line.

As far as 4x4's go... all the 4x4's I've seen require you to stop when shifting into or out of low. Not saying it's not possible, but that would be adding a lot to the transfer case for little return. There's no clutch in there - when shifting between 2-hi & 4-hi it's just engaging an extra output shaft. Going from lo-range to hi-range while moving would require some type of clutch in the transfer case to change gearing. Of course you could probably always try power shifting it and might manage getting it to switch at 5mph, and if that doesn't leave part or all of your drivetrain on the ground.. well have at it! According to the OP if it doesn't fall out or spit internal parts, it's perfectly fine.

 

[JulesMaximus]

What does a 2L gas and a 2.2L diesel Honda Accord have anything to do with fuel costs of a tractor-trailer? Things don't scale up in a straight linear line.

They do if you use Shawn math.

 

[ShawnD1]

They do if you use Shawn math.

Now here's a world first. Jules going on record to say that if you scale a vehicle from the size of a Honda CRV all the way up to an 18 wheel big rig, the diesel engine no longer gets better fuel mileage.

I've seen some weird things on this forum, but this one takes it.

 

[LTC8K6]

2008 Grand Cherokee requires neutral and less than 3mph to shift into 4lo, which is electronic. Otherwise, it's 4hi all the time.