So you've decided to pull rocks up hills with your Corolla...

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ShawnD1

Lifer
May 24, 2003
15,987
2
81
Jules, you're a good guy and I respect your opinions.

The towed vehicle had no brakes whatsoever so the vehicle doing the towing had to stop its weight plus the weight of the car behind it. I can tell you this for certain, it is amazing we didn't have more crashes because of that setup and that it was legal at all.
It probably was illegal. Compact shit cars like mine and the colt at your work are definitely not designed for hard braking. The base models have shitty drum brakes on the back.
 

JulesMaximus

No Lifer
Jul 3, 2003
74,534
911
126
Jules, you're a good guy and I respect your opinions.


It probably was illegal. Compact shit cars like mine and the colt at your work are definitely not designed for hard braking. The base models have shitty drum brakes on the back.

Well, this was back in the late 1980s...honestly, the brakes in the Colt were fine and easily capable of locking the wheels and with a manual gearbox that little shitbox was kind of fun to drive. Trouble is the brakes weren't linked to the brakes in the car we were towing the Colt behind which was just an average midsize American sedan.

Edit-The Colt was the car being towed and was chosen probably because it was tiny and didn't weight much.
 
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Bartman39

Elite Member | For Sale/Trade
Jul 4, 2000
8,867
51
91
I guess you guys have realized together you have all poured enough gasoline/diesel on him and his Toyota to vaporize them...?

But also keep feeding his addiction as well...:thumbsdown: (you will never change his mind)
 

Meghan54

Lifer
Oct 18, 2009
11,684
5,222
136
GVWR and towing capacity are unrelated.


Actually, Shawn, they are directly related.

Max towed ratings for vehicles are done with a vehicle load of a driver, typically at 150-165#, depending upon manufacturer, and a half-full tank of gas.

As you add load to the vehicle---tongue weight, coolers, passengers, kleenex, etc.--the rated towing capacity of the vehicle drops. And when you hit full GVWR of the tow vehicle, esp. with smaller vehicles, you'll find the towing rating falls rapidly downward.....to very small amounts.

Trucks, of course, while they do suffer the same thing, keep more of their towing capacity when hitting the vehicle's GVWR......or in other words, a typical body-on-frame truck's GCWR (Gross Combined Weight Rating) is higher than most cars.

And without knowing what a particular vehicle's GCWR is leaves you simply making baseless and silly assumptions. Too bad Honda, Toyota, and most other vehicle manufacturers rarely list the GCWR for most cars.
 

jlee

Lifer
Sep 12, 2001
48,517
223
106
Jules, you're a good guy and I respect your opinions.


It probably was illegal. Compact shit cars like mine and the colt at your work are definitely not designed for hard braking. The base models have shitty drum brakes on the back.

My Tundra had rear drum brakes and it could tow two of your Corollas stacked on top of each other if it wanted to. Granted, trailer brakes were recommended at a certain weight (I forget), but don't discount a vehicle just because it has rear drum brakes.
 

Capt Caveman

Lifer
Jan 30, 2005
34,543
651
126
Jules, you're a good guy and I respect your opinions.


It probably was illegal. Compact shit cars like mine and the colt at your work are definitely not designed for hard braking. The base models have shitty drum brakes on the back.

Another idiotic statement. My Infiniti QX4 has drum brakes and stops 60-0 in around 120ft, better than average for the class.
 

Meghan54

Lifer
Oct 18, 2009
11,684
5,222
136
.... don't discount a vehicle just because it has rear drum brakes.


I'm surprised I survived the darker ages of driving when vehicles had all drum brakes and still we towed trailers.

Those were the days....having to remember to dry your brakes out after going through standing water.....
 

jlee

Lifer
Sep 12, 2001
48,517
223
106
I'm surprised I survived the darker ages of driving when vehicles had all drum brakes and still we towed trailers.

Those were the days....having to remember to dry your brakes out after going through standing water.....

My first car didn't have ABS, TCS, EBD, BA, or any of those fancy acronyms either, and I managed to live!
 

LTC8K6

Lifer
Mar 10, 2004
28,520
1,575
126
Those millions of people are all wrong. Every single one of them. brake fade.

Real vehicles with real brakes that don't screw up and melt as fast as a toyota transmission have disc brakes.

Discs fade too.

Downshift and they won't fade. Especially on hills.

Oh wait, you don't like downshifting...too bad.
 

LTC8K6

Lifer
Mar 10, 2004
28,520
1,575
126
here's one guy saying it never actually went up a hill, it's a conspiracy, BBC is convincing people that manufacturer tow ratings are all made up:

Nope. Only 30mph means it can't pull the load. Period. Never said a thing about it going up the hill or not. Makes no difference. 30mph max = too much load.

Still haven't seen the video.
 

Zenmervolt

Elite member
Oct 22, 2000
24,512
21
81
How much do those little travel trailers weigh?

987 kg. So just under 2,200 lbs unladen. That's about a 220 lb tongue weight if it's properly balanced.

The Cerato is rated for a 500 kg trailer without brakes and 1,200 kg trailer with brakes.

Basically, TG was bumping up against the maximum trailer weight for the vehicle by the time you take luggage into account (as you can tell by the way the poor car is squatting heavily on it's rear suspension). Any sort of extended towing through steep grades would have been very hard on the car.

ZV
 

Malak

Lifer
Dec 4, 2004
14,696
2
0
Does it count as intended use when the manufacturer says it's capable of pulling a certain amount of weight? For things like Honda saying a regular 2.4L gasoline Accord can pull 3600 pounds, it doesn't even have a star next to it saying *towing package only*. It just says a number. I would assume that means the tranny is built to pull the car and 3600 pounds up a hill at full throttle.

As far as I know every car has a rating, but that doesn't mean it is actually built or intended for towing. Had a guy call several times to try and get a hitch for his VW R32 after the dealership told him specifically the car is not for towing. We told him same thing even pointing out no such hitch exists and no custom shop would build one due to liability. Dude wanted to tow a boat.

There are other considerations you are completely ignoring aside from weight of what you are towing.
 

JCH13

Diamond Member
Sep 14, 2010
4,981
66
91
My Tundra had rear drum brakes and it could tow two of your Corollas stacked on top of each other if it wanted to. Granted, trailer brakes were recommended at a certain weight (I forget), but don't discount a vehicle just because it has rear drum brakes.

My Uncle gave my family a full-size van that he no longer needed because we needed a vehicle to tow a 4,500lb boat and trailer with. Turns out we towed the boat for 2 years with no problems having only the rear drum brakes working.
 

ShawnD1

Lifer
May 24, 2003
15,987
2
81
Discs fade too.

Downshift and they won't fade. Especially on hills.

Oh wait, you don't like downshifting...too bad.

What I've been doing for the past 1.5 years was downshifting when slowing down from highway speeds. Apparently automatics don't like it when people do that because the thing doesn't rev match at all. It burns out the clutches just as bad as if someone was doing that with a manual and not rev matching. In the future I'll never ever downshift for anything then just rely on brakes. Brake pads are about $20, but having your transmission fixed (when not under warranty) is more like $2,000.


As far as I know every car has a rating, but that doesn't mean it is actually built or intended for towing. Had a guy call several times to try and get a hitch for his VW R32 after the dealership told him specifically the car is not for towing. We told him same thing even pointing out no such hitch exists and no custom shop would build one due to liability. Dude wanted to tow a boat.
That's weird such a towing package doesn't exist. Even cars like the Honda Fit and Ford Fiesta have optional tow hitches.
images
 

jlee

Lifer
Sep 12, 2001
48,517
223
106
You're supposed to downshift with an auto for sustained descents to avoid brake fade...not to downshift every time you need to slow down. D:
 

desy

Diamond Member
Jan 13, 2000
5,442
211
106
So its not your crappy Toyota its your p1ss p00r driving?

Did we just learn this or did he fess up in the other my Toyota is a POS thread?
 

jlee

Lifer
Sep 12, 2001
48,517
223
106
So its not your crappy Toyota its your p1ss p00r driving?

Did we just learn this or did he fess up in the other my Toyota is a POS thread?

a post or two up.

ShawnD1 said:
What I've been doing for the past 1.5 years was downshifting when slowing down from highway speeds.
 

ShawnD1

Lifer
May 24, 2003
15,987
2
81
You're supposed to downshift with an auto for sustained descents to avoid brake fade...not to downshift every time you need to slow down. D:
I hate the way the brakes smell when slowing down from highway speed. It smells like burning. Of course that probably is because of burning. Going down hills never really gave me any problems, but going from 70 or 80 to 0 does.


I can't view this at work but I think this is the correct video. This is what brakes smell like when slowing down with no engine braking:
http://www.streetfire.net/video/dodge-intrepid-police-fires_173604.htm
 

MotF Bane

No Lifer
Dec 22, 2006
60,801
10
0

jlee

Lifer
Sep 12, 2001
48,517
223
106
I hate the way the brakes smell when slowing down from highway speed. It smells like burning. Of course that probably is because of burning. Going down hills never really gave me any problems, but going from 70 or 80 to 0 does.


I can't view this at work but I think this is the correct video. This is what brakes smell like when slowing down with no engine braking:
http://www.streetfire.net/video/dodge-intrepid-police-fires_173604.htm

You're doing it wrong.

And since when are you doing pursuit driving with your Corolla?
 
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JCH13

Diamond Member
Sep 14, 2010
4,981
66
91
I hate the way the brakes smell when slowing down from highway speed. It smells like burning. Of course that probably is because of burning. Going down hills never really gave me any problems, but going from 70 or 80 to 0 does.


I can't view this at work but I think this is the correct video. This is what brakes smell like when slowing down with no engine braking:
http://www.streetfire.net/video/dodge-intrepid-police-fires_173604.htm

You're learning the hard way that a new transmission is more expensive than new brakes. If you didn't like the way your brakes smelled you could have just gotten different pads.
 

ShawnD1

Lifer
May 24, 2003
15,987
2
81
You're doing it wrong.

And since when are you doing pursuit driving with your Corolla?
Since god made me an honorary police officer.
Actually one would expect a normal Corolla to perform significantly worse than a police car when it comes to braking. Police cars are intended for hard and frequent braking. A Corolla is not. Remember that this is a cheap car for poor people. Everything is just barely enough to actually call it a car. This Corolla is Ford Tempo version 2.0
It also doesn't help that I'm driving on 16 inch steel (heavy) rims with 205/55r16 winter tires. These are full size winter tires and where they touch the road is much wider than the contact area for the stock all season tires. Overall weight is much higher, moment of inertia is much higher. Then on top of that I'm usually traveling around with at least one passenger.

The goal of engine braking is just to slow the car down a little bit. Remember that energy is exponential with speed. The energy difference going from 70mph to 60mph is much much larger than going from 10 to 0. Just dropping 1 gear on the highway can easily remove half of the car's energy before the brakes are applied.


You're learning the hard way that a new transmission is more expensive than new brakes. If you didn't like the way your brakes smelled you could have just gotten different pads.
That or I could be "that guy" who takes 3 miles to slow down in preparation for a turn off the highway. You bash your head against the steering wheel because it's rush hour, there's too much traffic coming in the other direction, so you can't pass me while I'm going half the speed limit :D