So what's the word on HDR tv?

[swilli89]

Luckily(?) there is only one implementation of an OLED TV on the market, so if someone goes to the store intending to buy an "OLED TV" they can't fail. Maybe one day there will be other OLEDs and some of those might suck, but I would love to have that problem. I hate the lack of competition in the space.

Plus quite frankly to a videophile stuff like max brightness is useless unless the set is too dim to be accurate/seen. Even color accuracy isn't as important as the almighty black level or those Kuros wouldn't have had the legacy that they have had. Hell the first LG OLED tvs had a MAJOR MAJOR uniformity issue, a HUGE problem, and it still won one shootout after another vs LEDs sets because LED technology sucks so bad that OLED can win with one hand behind its back.

To me the gap between an OLED TV and a LED TV is the biggest gap in technology today. Bigger than the gap between AMD and Intel CPUs (or hell even desktop CPUs vs mobile ones), or Apple vs Samsung, or even 4k vs 1080p. The black level is magnitudes better, which means a picture quality magnitudes better. If you REALLY care about picture quality there is only one choice, one one brand.

Yeah agree with all this. Its why I'm sad to be selling my Samsung 64" F8500. If I look at pretty much any LCD(LED backlit) set at anyone else's house I have to try hard to focus on the content and not the awful picture.

 

[Kartajan]

If I was in the market for a 4k "LED" TV, I would at least take a peek at the 2016 Vizio P- series. It is supposed to have a lot of the high end feature set, but without the OTA Tuner. (And the Smartness is apparently limited to what amounts to a onboard chromecast)

 

[Eug]

I just saw a post elsewhere from someone who said the Netflix app on his P series 2016 Vizio crashed twice in his first week of ownership, requiring a hard reset (unplugging and replugging unit into electrical outlet).

If this is representative of the P-series TVs in general, then I'm not really interested anymore. That would be far too frustrating for me, especially for a US$3800 TV.

 

[boomhower]

(And the Smartness is apparently limited to what amounts to a onboard chromecast)

That is a good thing. Firmware updates to the smart TV software is rare at best, maybe some bug fixes but the than that your usually hosed. With this all updates to the Android apps are inherently updated for the TV, makes for much faster and frequent fixes.

I just saw a post elsewhere from someone who said the Netflix app on his P series 2016 Vizio crashed twice in his first week of ownership, requiring a hard reset (unplugging and replugging unit into electrical outlet).

If this is representative of the P-series TVs in general, then I'm not really interested anymore. That would be far too frustrating for me, especially for a US$3800 TV.

Mine hasn't crashed yet. Set-up was a bit more involving than built in apps but once done it has been great. Dolby Vision content is awesome, just can't wait until more comes out. This is a person deal but for me searching content on the tablet is much easier than a remote and the screen.

 

[Eug]

The other major issues besides app instability I've been reading about for the Vizio P75 are video tearing and buggy ARC.

Im definitely holding off until I hear the bugs are fixed, and the price drops too.

 

[Pacfanweb]

Yeah agree with all this. Its why I'm sad to be selling my Samsung 64" F8500. If I look at pretty much any LCD(LED backlit) set at anyone else's house I have to try hard to focus on the content and not the awful picture.

Why would you sell it?

Unless you're buying an OLED, whatever you replace it with isn't going to look as good.

I'd wait 2 years, minimum, at this point. Let the technology mature.

I have a 65" Panny VT60 Plasma. I've seen nothing besides and OLED that can compare, and even the OLED isn't THAT much better....and sure as hell it's not enough of a jump to justify the price.

 

[MaxDepth]

What I have been reading about HDR is that this is yet another idea to foister on the general public as a reason to ditch older tvs, DVD players, AV receivers, etc.

Does it really work and look better? Certainly, but there are a whole host of factors to getting that same look everyone was seeing at the 2016 CES.

The only roadblock to older receivers and DVD players is whether or not their HDMI configuration can be updated. HDMI 1.4 to 2.0 is not impossible, just improbable as the hardware makers want you to make the jump by buying new hardware. 2.0 to 2.0a? While that seems reasonable to expect ROM flash upgrade, that still depends on the company and most likely, improbable.

So does HDR provide any more benefit to the normal, non-cinephile, in their living room? I think that's a fair question just like how a person benefits from buying a 4K TV. Like if the 55" TV is mounted above the fireplace and your couch is 10 feet away, you might as well have bought a 1080p. Plus everyone's interpretation of HDR will be factored into the cost range of all their models.

So I guess the bottom line is this: wait until 2017 if you want HDR and all the bells and whistles with HDMI 2.0a, right? This year is the first year and I am sure there will be a lot of shake out of who implements this best and at what cost. (From there the reviewers will start to ask implementation over cost for the lower tier to factor which models constitute a best buy.)

And for the rest of us who did not buy new for the last two years, this would be the time to pick up a reduced cost 2015 model, yes?

 

[s44]

And for the rest of us who did not buy new for the last two years, this would be the time to pick up a reduced cost 2015 model, yes?

No. HDR is a big deal and deliberately skipping it would be foolish.

This isn't like 4k when the HDMI specs weren't even implemented for it correctly in year one.

 

[Eug]

Just about everyone out there in internetland that has HDR says it's totally awesome. However, the question is whether or not you're willing to pay for "totally awesome", esp. since the content is currently still pretty limited.

The other problem though is it seems the cheaper HDR panels (Vizio) seem to be pretty buggy, judging by the reports I've been reading about the P series.

In my case, the main reason I want 4K is for upscaling and for 4K content from Netflix. However, I've been reading about a buggy Netflix (through their casting method), that sometimes means just relaunching the cast but sometimes means a complete hard reset. Or else lost audio... which partially may be related to ARC bugs where the audio from the stream isn't being properly communicated back to the receiver.

These problems probably also exist on other brands, but I hear less about them... but then again there are less buying them it seems because they're so damn expensive.

 

[MaxDepth]

Thanks for your reply!

But for the general public, what constitutes a reasonable amount of cash for an upgrade? You have to factor in that most of the buying public already spent at least $700-$1000 on a digital TV that in most cases still work. Can HDR be implemented in the same cost range? I understand there are two UHD standardards (basically nit parameters) but that seems to me just two separate justifications for qualification for LED vs an OLED.

Also, since HRD DVD players and content won't be appearing much until 3Q16, it seems to me to the be the same conversation as why purchase a 4K TV.

No. HDR is a big deal and deliberately skipping it would be foolish.

This isn't like 4k when the HDMI specs weren't even implemented for it correctly in year one.

 

[Eug]

I have more interest in 4K streaming than 4K Blu-ray, although I would eventually buy a 4K Blu-ray player. Just not now. It seems the Samsung K8500 suffers from 1st generation growing pains.

I'm not surprised though. I bought an early gen LG Blu-ray player and it royally sucked. Buggy as hell. I ended up returning it and buying a Sony with way less features and it worked fine, probably because Sony was the big push behind Blu-ray at that time and I suspect that Blu-ray software developers were often using their players for troubleshooting, as a reference platform of sorts.

 

[Kartajan]

my take on the things that I read concerning HDR is that IF you have HDR CONTENT available, that the improvements are dramatic.

The biggest problem I see is that the content isn't likely to reach the saturation point of availability for a while yet.

I consider the entire idea to be one of "If I need new stuff or am otherwise upgrading anyway, make sure I get HW that should properly support it" vice a "Must go ahead and upgrade now because I want to see my content in it's full glory".

(I would need to change out both my displays and my AVR, as mine are NOT 4k compatible. I did get a NVidia Shield though...per the if I need new stuff part)

 

[poofyhairguy]

So does HDR provide any more benefit to the normal, non-cinephile, in their living room?

Yeah, everyone can notice the increase in brightness. Like animals shiny things please us.

Beyond that....it depends on the person.

 

[Eug]

I consider the entire idea to be one of "If I need new stuff or am otherwise upgrading anyway, make sure I get HW that should properly support it" vice a "Must go ahead and upgrade now because I want to see my content in it's full glory".

Yeah, in my case, my projector bulb is on its last legs, and I don't want to continue with the projector thing, esp. since it means spending $300 on a new bulb.

(I would need to change out both my displays and my AVR, as mine are NOT 4k compatible. I did get a NVidia Shield though...per the if I need new stuff part)

Well, I did get new AVRs (considering mine were already 10 years old and didn't do HDMI audio), but my only source of 4K for a while would be built into the TV via Netflix. The problem though is to get the sound out of it I would either have to go with optical, which probably would be only stereo, or else use a new receiver capable of ARC, which is a relatively new thing. Or I suppose I could have gotten a Roku or something. In that case, one can continue to use an old receiver, since you can run the HDMI to the TV directly.

 

[s44]

The problem though is to get the sound out of it I would either have to go with optical, which probably would be only stereo

Optical out from a TV is either 2.0 PCM or 5.1 DD/DTS just like any other optical source. You only need the new fancy AVR if you want DD+ or Atmos over ARC.

 

[Eug]

Optical out from a TV is either 2.0 PCM or 5.1 DD/DTS just like any other optical source. You only need the new fancy AVR if you want DD+ or Atmos over ARC.

Dunno if things have changed or not but a lot of older TVs only output stereo via optical.

I see Vizios aren't among them though.

http://www.cnet.com/news/20-tvs-tested-which-sets-can-pass-surround-sound-to-a-sound-bar/

 

[Eug]

2016 P series review:

http://ca.rtings.com/tv/reviews/vizio/p-series-2016

Overall excellent set for 1080p and 4K content but it has a poor scaler for 480p and 720p, and it is not the wide gamut it is advertised to be. Also, the tablet interface needs work.

 

[swilli89]

Why would you sell it?

Unless you're buying an OLED, whatever you replace it with isn't going to look as good.

I'd wait 2 years, minimum, at this point. Let the technology mature.

I have a 65" Panny VT60 Plasma. I've seen nothing besides and OLED that can compare, and even the OLED isn't THAT much better....and sure as hell it's not enough of a jump to justify the price.

Life stuff forcing me to sell it. There's definitely nothing out there that comes close to bang/$, I'm sadly aware

 

[poofyhairguy]

I have a 65" Panny VT60 Plasma. I've seen nothing besides and OLED that can compare, and even the OLED isn't THAT much better....and sure as hell it's not enough of a jump to justify the price.

I have two ST plasmas myself. OLED blacks look great but the motion blur drives me nuts. I am going to hold onto these plasma till they die.

 

[Eug]

I've been playing my Chromecast using my phone and tablet. I don't have a Vizio TV, but I figure this may be an analogous control method.

I can honestly say I'm not enamoured with this control method. It has its advantages, but it also has disadvantages.

I've been reading around and it seems people are kinda iffy on this tablet control, and that it's a work in progress (which is what the rtings.com review also said). Some people love it, but others find the lag for TV control frustrating.

Luckily, for basic functions, you can still control it with a Harmony remote via IR.

 

[boomhower]

Netflix announced they are going to start supporting HDR in addition to Dolby Vision so the content is coming, slowly but it is coming.

 

[frowertr]

I have a Samsung JS8500 that can display HDR and I'm pretty damn excited to try it out. Just waiting on Netflix to upgrade the app built into the TV.

 

[boomhower]

I have a Samsung JS8500 that can display HDR and I'm pretty damn excited to try it out. Just waiting on Netflix to upgrade the app built into the TV.

Your going to have to wait on Samsung to upgrade the TV. Netflix just can't send out an upgrade for the app. That's the bad news. The good news is Samsung did announce they were going to upgrade those models to this years OS. After this year you are hosed though. Another reason I think the casting Vizio has implemented will become more popular.

 

[Eug]

Your going to have to wait on Samsung to upgrade the TV. Netflix just can't send out an upgrade for the app. That's the bad news. The good news is Samsung did announce they were going to upgrade those models to this years OS. After this year you are hosed though. Another reason I think the casting Vizio has implemented will become more popular.

Casting for Vizio is still dependent upon the software in the actual TV. It seems to be a common myth out there that updating the tablet app means updating the Vizio, but this is not the case. The tablet is essentially just the remote control here. Playback is actually dependent upon the software built into the TV.

There is no guarantee that Vizio will update this 2016 TV say in 2018. That said, the good news is that Vizio has been pretty good with updates, and most of the important changes will likely be in 2016 and 2017 anyway.

 

[boomhower]

Casting for Vizio is still dependent upon the software in the actual TV. It seems to be a common myth out there that updating the tablet app means updating the Vizio, but this is not the case. The tablet is essentially just the remote control here. Playback is actually dependent upon the software built into the TV.



There is no guarantee that Vizio will update this 2016 TV say in 2018. That said, the good news is that Vizio has been pretty good with updates, and most of the important changes will likely be in 2016 and 2017 anyway.

Interesting. Got a link I can look at?