So what's the word on HDR tv?

[razel]

No recommendations for a TV right now. Same as before, wait until the holidays. Save up your money. It'll be at least 2K for a 60' inch where the difference in 4K will start to become noticeable from your couch. You'll want the base LG 4K OLED. Their entire 2016 OLED series will have the same picture quality.

 

[Eug]

Ditch the cabinet. Seriously. Restricting your panel size by the furniture ideas of a pre-flatscreen world is just insane. It's painful but necessary.

Won't happen in the living room. At most we'd get a new cabinet. However in the home theatre there is no cabinet.

BTW, the cabinet was custom designed by yours truly to fit both the decor and to fit (at the time) mid-sized LCDs, since all the TV cabinets with that design were too small and had the TV shelf too high for ergonomics. I figured a 43" interior width would give me lots of options going forward, and indeed TVs up to some current 48" models will fit. At the time - 8 years ago - IIRC 40" to 47" was common. What I didn't predict was companies like LG going with 49" for their higher end TVs.

No recommendations for a TV right now. Same as before, wait until the holidays. Save up your money. It'll be at least 2K for a 60' inch where the difference in 4K will start to become noticeable from your couch. You'll want the base LG 4K OLED. Their entire 2016 OLED series will have the same picture quality.

I must be missing something. At least on my phone, the LG Canada website only lists 4 OLEDs and they are all curved. Only 55" and 65" sizes.

http://m.lg.com/ca_en/tvs

http://m.lg.com/ca_en/oled-tvs

I'll check again later on the global web sites on my desktop.

 

[s44]

Wait... right, your budget is in loonies and not greenbacks? You could be hosed.

 

[razel]

Yes you did miss something. Read carefully.

 

[Eug]

Checked. There are a lot less OLEDs on the LG Canada site compared to the US site. But all of them are too expensive for my tastes anyway.

I think I'm going to wait on the 70-75" TV, and probably aim for the FALD TVs instead of OLED unless OLED pricing really, really drops.

As for the 48" TV, again I think I'll go for FALD, but just a mid-range one.

 

[Eug]

I've been looking around, and it seems in terms of price vs. specs, the Vizio M series is probably more my speed. However, I also read about problems about their reliability.

I may just have to wait some more.

 

[Eug]

Or maybe even edge lit. I was surprised to learn that all of the 2016 high end Samsungs will be edge lit. If black levels really do compare with even "just" entry level 2011 plasma, I'd probably be fine with that.

 

[poofyhairguy]

Or maybe even edge lit. I was surprised to learn that all of the 2016 high end Samsungs will be edge lit. If black levels really do compare with even "just" entry level 2011 plasma, I'd probably be fine with that.

Their motion clarity and uniformity will be nowhere near that 2011 plasma. I would much much rather have a 2011 plasma for anything dark or with action.



I would only buy an edge lit tv for two reasons:



1. I am a gamer and the tv will play games 90% of the time and the input lag on a set is low.



2. I am a father and I am getting a cheap tv for a kids room/playroom (Aka I will never watch it).



If you are buying a TV for you to watch tv/movies and you can't afford OLED (by far the best technology) then at least get something FALD. Edge lit is garbage technology meant to prey on consumer vanity and brand loyalty.

 

[boomhower]

Or maybe even edge lit. I was surprised to learn that all of the 2016 high end Samsungs will be edge lit. If black levels really do compare with even "just" entry level 2011 plasma, I'd probably be fine with that.

You do not want edge lit. They are using edge lit for two reasons, one it is cheaper and two they can make them thinner. I would stick with a FALD Vizio. The 2016 M's should be coming out soon and the 2016 P series was just released. FALD or OLED are the only two options IMHO.

 

[Kartajan]

I would back off (just a bit on the) FALD being ALWAYS better than edge lit, since some of the new tech has been doing a better job with edge that might beat out older/ cheaper FALD tech....

I would go more for the "do your homework" answer, and read up over at avsforum and rtings, and only then narrow your selection down to what you need to see in person before buying.



Unless you can just blow the $2k or so without concern...

 

[Eug]

BTW, apparently NONE of the 2016 offerings from Vizio and Samsung support 3D. I rejoice! I hope this means home 3D is now unofficially dead, cuz I've always thought it was a stupid waste of effort for the manufacturers, potentially jacking up cost for no good reason.

 

[poofyhairguy]

I would back off (just a bit on the) FALD being ALWAYS better than edge lit, since some of the new tech has been doing a better job with edge that might beat out older/ cheaper FALD tech....

Sure, if you have too few zones with a FALD the blooming undoes the benefit of the technology. The only thing I would absolutely say is that OLED is better than any LED/LCD, so if you don't want to do any research just buy a LG OLED.

 

[s44]

The only thing I would absolutely say is that OLED is better than any LED/LCD

The display tech is, in theory, but that doesn't mean any particular implementation is going to have good color accuracy/colorspace, max brightness, format compatibility, lack of other issues, etc.

 

[poofyhairguy]

The display tech is, in theory, but that doesn't mean any particular implementation is going to have good color accuracy/colorspace, max brightness, format compatibility, lack of other issues, etc.

Luckily(?) there is only one implementation of an OLED TV on the market, so if someone goes to the store intending to buy an "OLED TV" they can't fail. Maybe one day there will be other OLEDs and some of those might suck, but I would love to have that problem. I hate the lack of competition in the space.

Plus quite frankly to a videophile stuff like max brightness is useless unless the set is too dim to be accurate/seen. Even color accuracy isn't as important as the almighty black level or those Kuros wouldn't have had the legacy that they have had. Hell the first LG OLED tvs had a MAJOR MAJOR uniformity issue, a HUGE problem, and it still won one shootout after another vs LEDs sets because LED technology sucks so bad that OLED can win with one hand behind its back.

To me the gap between an OLED TV and a LED TV is the biggest gap in technology today. Bigger than the gap between AMD and Intel CPUs (or hell even desktop CPUs vs mobile ones), or Apple vs Samsung, or even 4k vs 1080p. The black level is magnitudes better, which means a picture quality magnitudes better. If you REALLY care about picture quality there is only one choice, one one brand.

 

[Eug]

Their motion clarity and uniformity will be nowhere near that 2011 plasma. I would much much rather have a 2011 plasma for anything dark or with action.

I would only buy an edge lit tv for two reasons:

1. I am a gamer and the tv will play games 90% of the time and the input lag on a set is low.

2. I am a father and I am getting a cheap tv for a kids room/playroom (Aka I will never watch it).

If you are buying a TV for you to watch tv/movies and you can't afford OLED (by far the best technology) then at least get something FALD. Edge lit is garbage technology meant to prey on consumer vanity and brand loyalty.

Coincidentally, I think my low end plasma, which is an LG 42PJ550 1024x768 16:9 60 Hz HDMI model, is circa 2010, and I bought it for something like CAD$549 in 2011. Black levels are great, and contrast is too. The brightness isn't the greatest for bright daytime viewing, but really the main major gripes with it are just the uber glossy screen and the fact it's not a 47-48" TV. Lots of reflections and ambient in the daytime because I've got big windows. At night I'm perfectly happy with it. No reflections (unless the fireplace is going), and just the right level of brightness. I do have another smaller gripe with it though. Since it's roughly 720p, even though I'm at 12-13' seating distance, I do sometimes see problems in text on-screen. However, a 1080p set would likely solve that problem, and for TV and movies, the 720p doesn't bother me since it looks decent. Hell, even 480p DVD looks quite OK on that size TV from that seating distance.

The colours were quite a bit off out of the box, and this is one common problem I've noticed with a lot of cheaper TVs, but once I calibrated it, it looked very decent. Way better than the CCFL LCD that it replaced, that I paid more than twice as much for a few years earlier.

This is not my home theatre TV though. I do watch a lot of TV on it in the living room, but my movie TV is the home theatre projector.

I think I'm going to keep the plasma for now. I'm now looking more for my home theatre, since the existing LEDs would actually be a significantly improvement. Seating distance is close, and I'm using a projector with not very great contrast, and one where the iris is starting to do funny things occasionally.

http://www.projectorcentral.com/Panasonic-PT-AX200U.htm

The other problem is that my home theatre isn't 100% light controlled, so during the day everything looks washed out.

Luckily(?) there is only one implementation of an OLED TV on the market, so if someone goes to the store intending to buy an "OLED TV" they can't fail. Maybe one day there will be other OLEDs and some of those might suck, but I would love to have that problem. I hate the lack of competition in the space.

I saw an OLED in the store the other day and it was absolutely spectacular. However, it's just way, way, way too much money. Just like I avoided $20000 plasmas when they came out, I'm going to avoid $10000 OLEDs now.

And my wife doesn't seem to keen on my going down-spec for a 65" TV. She feels that's too much of a drop from our 90" projector image in the home theatre. So, I'm still aiming for 70" to 75".

 

[s44]

You'll probably have to wait another year for 75" HDR/wide gamut to approach your price range.

 

[Eug]

Since I won't be spending $1500 on my living room TV, I'll add that to my home theatre budget. So that brings me to $4000 CAD.

I doubt I'll spend that much, but who knows... If there is a Black Friday OLED sale that gets me a decent sized one for $4000, I'm there. I note that Amazon.ca currently has the 65" OLED for $6000 already. It can't be THAT long before we see a 70"+ model for $4000.

But FALD HDR 4K may just have to do.

P.S. Philips is apparently going to start selling OLEDs maybe next year. I wonder what they'll be like, and how much they will be.

http://www.flatpanelshd.com/news.php?subaction=showfull&id=1459748511

Today is my birthday: Thanks for the birthday rumour Foxconn!

 

[poofyhairguy]

I think I'm going to keep the plasma for now.

Fair enough, they are still great TVs.

I saw an OLED in the store the other day and it was absolutely spectacular. However, it's just way, way, way too much money.

I feel you. I recommend the crap of out the 55 inch 1080p model to friends and family because I think it is the best sub 60 inch TV you can buy, but the jump in cost from there is massive. The crazy part is that even at those costs OLED tvs themselves don't make LG a lot of money. They do it for the halo effect, basically so ill-informed consumers see all of their TVs in a more favorable light.

And my wife doesn't seem to keen on my going down-spec for a 65" TV. She feels that's too much of a drop from our 90" projector image in the home theatre. So, I'm still aiming for 70" to 75".

Yeah going smaller is never fun, which is why I never got one of these 55 inch 1080p OLEDs for myself. Any reason you are not considering another projector? Cost?

I know exact what I would do if I was in your shoes:

I would keep a day off of work on the side, and make sure I always have it available. I would find the 75 inch Vizio (only LED worth buying at lower costs) I like on the Bestbuy websites, and I would bookmark it. Each day part of my morning ritual would be to check the price of the TV on Best Buy's website, and the day it goes for sale at a price I could afford (which won't be $2k for years, sorry, but maybe $2500 is doable) I would call in sick to work and drive to the nearing American Best Buy in a Uhaul and I would drag that sucker with me back to the land of money that isn't worth as much.

But that's just me.

 

[poofyhairguy]

Happy Birthday!

 

[Eug]

Yeah going smaller is never fun, which is why I never got one of these 55 inch 1080p OLEDs for myself. Any reason you are not considering another projector? Cost?

Annoyance factor, and the need for complete light control to get even half decent image quality. Even the quiet fan overhead annoys me.

I know exact what I would do if I was in your shoes:

I would keep a day off of work on the side, and make sure I always have it available. I would find the 75 inch Vizio (only LED worth buying at lower costs) I like on the Bestbuy websites, and I would bookmark it. Each day part of my morning ritual would be to check the price of the TV on Best Buy's website, and the day it goes for sale at a price I could afford (which won't be $2k for years, sorry, but maybe $2500 is doable) I would call in sick to work and drive to the nearing American Best Buy in a Uhaul and I would drag that sucker with me back to the land of money that isn't worth as much.

Heh, I actually did that when DVD players first came out. DVD players first came out in the US and Canada in 1997 and I was itchin' to buy. However, in Canada, the first ones were $1000 and I couldn't stomach that, so I waited... until I heard that Montgomery Ward was going bankrupt in the US in 1998 and they were closing out players for $300, including an unreleased version of Dances With Wolves. I called the store, and promised I'd be there before 9 pm closing if they held it for me. After work I quickly drove out of town... only to be questioned by US customs at the border why I was trying to go shopping after 6 pm at night in backwater USA.

I mentioned the $300 DVD player, and he didn't believe me. I mentioned the store and he still didn't believe me, until I told him it was going bankrupt so that's why the players were so cheap. So he took down all that info and said he was going to go shopping for a DVD player after his shift was up.

I made it to the store at about 8:45 pm.

I watched the free movie once, and then sold it to a guy in the US for $50, since it was such a rarity. Unreleased movie on DVD.

Happy Birthday!

Thanks!

 

[s44]

That's a great story.

The 75" Vizio P (2016!) is $3800 in the USA, so I assume its Canadian price will be higher on release. But remember, Best Buy coupon and/or Vizio site sign-up coupon...

 

[Eug]

I'm thinking maybe 70" M series, assuming there is a 2016 70" M series that is. I don't think they've released the size specs yet.

I won't be buying from the US though. Too much hassle. Either Best Buy or Costco. They currently have the 2015 70" for CAD$2499 which is US$1899, which coincidentally is the exact price at which it is listed on the US Best Buy site.

Canada: www.bestbuy.ca/en-ca/product/vizio-...d-smart-tv-m70-c3-silver-m70-c3/10367978.aspx

US: http://www.bestbuy.com/site/vizio-70-class-69-5-diag--led-2160p-smart-4k-ultra-hd-tv-black/3733013.p

I'm not too impressed by the included stand, but I'll probably mount it on the wall anyway, and stick my centre channel on the TV stand.

I'll have to move stuff around though. I used to have the sub in the centre with the centre channel on top of it, and sound-wise that was fine, but the height was too high.

However, given the mounting setup of the projector, it was OK, because I couldn't go any lower anyway. However, I'd like to have the TV lower, so I got a short TV cabinet - 20". I'll probably mount the TV so the bottom of it is 9" above the TV cabinet, or at about 29". That's a tad high for the front row though, but if I build a platform for the second row, that'd be perfect for the second row.

However, with this wide TV cabinet, I had to move the sub into the corner and put the speakers closer together. Note that the components aren't in the stand yet. This was just a temporary setup since I just built this Ikea stand yesterday.

This looks way too cluttered, and the speakers are too close to the TV. It also limits the setup to maximum 75". You can see the projector image which I've shrunk down to a 67" width, which is a 75" diagonal. Very cramped.

I think what I'll do is move the sub to the right side in front of the closet there, and put the TV cabinet in the middle, with the speakers spread further apart.

As mentioned, I think I will also eventually build a platform for the second row of seating. The first row in this pic is just a folding couch, but now they are reclining chairs so it's not too bad to look up at the screen. It's hard to see over them when you're sitting in the second row though.

 

[poofyhairguy]

Sounds like you have a plan. That is the tv I would buy at that size as well.

 

[s44]

Yes, there will be a 70"M. No wide gamut tho.

 

[poofyhairguy]

Yes, there will be a 70"M. No wide gamut tho.

Eeeeeeeeeeeeek