So our priest denied our daughter's baptism...

[piasabird]

So does your daughter even know what it means to be baptised?

Contributions from parishoners in the pews is what insures Your parish will be there for the next person. Hearing the good word of God every week helps people to stay faithful and fellowship with each other in the church. If you do not go to church every Sunday then what are you doing to honor the day that the lord has made?

If you are not doing these things, what purpose is there to being a member of a church? Did you ask the priest what you should be doing?

Can a man rob God? How can a man rob God? By his tithes and offereings.

Might read Malachi.

 

[Wyndru]

So does your daughter even know what it means to be baptised?

Contributions from parishoners in the pews is what insures Your parish will be there for the next person. Hearing the good word of God every week helps people to stay faithful and fellowship with each other in the church. If you do not go to church every Sunday then what are you doing to honor the day that the lord has made?

If you are not doing these things, what purpose is there to being a member of a church? Did you ask the priest what you should be doing?

Can a man rob God? How can a man rob God? By his tithes and offereings.

Might read Malachi.

Your argument would be valid if I said I didn't make a yearly donation of $500, and each mass give $20. I know it's not 10%, but I can't afford to throw thousands at the church each year. If that makes me a bad catholic, I don't know if I want to be a part of it.

As far as not honoring the day, I've mentioned multiple time throughout the thread that I have full intentions of visiting more frequently now that we have a child. For myself, my wife and my daughter, not for some "show" thing.

I have always been a good catholic, I just didn't go in my 20's. If that is enough to cast me from the parish, then I'm a little confused at the point of religion.

 

[MagnusTheBrewer]

How does the priest reconcile that baptism is between the child and God but, participation in the church including attending mass is for brotherhood? Jesus said that a house of worship is unnecessary. Perhaps forwarding his email with your own thoughts to the archdiocese might be fruitful.

 

[BoomerD]

Pedobear will baptize her for you!

Especially if you do this:

baptise her in bacon

Bacon makes babbie more delicious...

 

[PowerEngineer]

The many responses like this that I have seen makes me realize that many view church to be a sort of attendance required service. IMO it's a community that should welcome people regardless of their attendance, their social status or ability to "fund" them. Like I said before, I see very few people in their 20's in church when I go, even on "C and E", but more people in there 30's (with kids) or older. I shouldn't be punished because I didn't attend regularly.

Well... Everyone is entitled to an opinion on any subject.

By definition, however, an 'organized' religion is based on a common set of beliefs that are shared by all its members. As I pointed out in an earlier post, Catholics see weekly attendance at Mass as being so important that it is a damning sin not to do so. If you can't reconcile your opinions with the Catholic beliefs, then you shouldn't expect (or want) to be a Catholic.

If you want to be(come) a Catholic, then a meeting with the priest is a good first step. Since your grasp of their beliefs seems a little weak, you might start by inquiring into classes and/or books through which you might better understand your obligations as a member. A follow-up meeting at which you can demonstrate your understanding of what it means to be a Catholic coupled with a commitment to 'do your best' should be sufficient.

I have to give some credit to those organized religions that adhere to thier core beliefs regardless of their popularity. Clearly this isn't a winning strategy if their true aim is to grow in size and collect more money as the more cynical pundits here have suggested (see the TV evangelists for that).

 

[JTsyo]

From reading his excerpt, I think he's trying to use your daughter's baptism to get you to commit to a more regular attendance.

 

[MagnusTheBrewer]

Well... Everyone is entitled to an opinion on any subject.

By definition, however, an 'organized' religion is based on a common set of beliefs that are shared by all its members. As I pointed out in an earlier post, Catholics see weekly attendance at Mass as being so important that it is a damning sin not to do so. If you can't reconcile your opinions with the Catholic beliefs, then you shouldn't expect (or want) to be a Catholic.

If you want to be(come) a Catholic, then a meeting with the priest is a good first step. Since your grasp of their beliefs seems a little weak, you might start by inquiring into classes and/or books through which you might better understand your obligations as a member. A follow-up meeting at which you can demonstrate your understanding of what it means to be a Catholic coupled with a commitment to 'do your best' should be sufficient.

I have to give some credit to those organized religions that adhere to thier core beliefs regardless of their popularity. Clearly this isn't a winning strategy if their true aim is to grow in size and collect more money as the more cynical pundits here have suggested (see the TV evangelists for that).

I guess they glossed over that when I studied the catechism. Seriously, do you get your beliefs from TV evangelists?

 

[jiggahertz]

We usually donate about $500 a year, but I hate "buying" into stuff like this. Not to mention the basket goes around 4 times during mass, so I give $5 each go-around, so $20 each mass. The basket passing actually cuts down mass time quite a bit too

4 times? Seems pretty unorthodox. I that is was SOP to pass it around just before communion.

 

[Wyndru]

I have to give some credit to those organized religions that adhere to thier core beliefs regardless of their popularity. Clearly this isn't a winning strategy if their true aim is to grow in size and collect more money as the more cynical pundits here have suggested (see the TV evangelists for that).

Good point, I wasn't really looking at it like this. Thanks for that.

4 times? Seems pretty unorthodox. I that is was SOP to pass it around just before communion.

They usually do collections for things going on in the community, and also people in the parish that are in need too.

 

[PowerEngineer]

I guess they glossed over that when I studied the catechism. Seriously, do you get your beliefs from TV evangelists?

Seriously... I am agnostic. The reference to TV evangelists is pretty clearly a 'dig' at their mercenary natures.

As to the seriousness of missing Sunday Mass, this might help:

http://www.cuf.org/faithfacts/details_view.asp?ffID=164

I'm not out to defend Catholic beliefs, but just trying to shed light on the priest's point of view.

 

[JTsyo]

What sin/s does your child have?

The Original Sin, that's why she needs need baptism to clear the slate. After that you just need the deathbed confession and you're golden.

 

[Malak]

The many responses like this that I have seen makes me realize that many view church to be a sort of attendance required service. IMO it's a community that should welcome people regardless of their attendance, their social status or ability to "fund" them. Like I said before, I see very few people in their 20's in church when I go, even on "C and E", but more people in there 30's (with kids) or older. I shouldn't be punished because I didn't attend regularly.

You know, you seem to have no issue coming up with all the reasons why you shouldn't be a Catholic, so why not go the distance? If God is about love, go look for a church that is too.

 

[JEDIYoda]

Actually, I am 100% correctomundo. Note Canon 861 §2:


Quote:
in a case of necessity, any person who has the requisite intention may do so.

There are advantages to being born to a former Catholic nun. Also baptism =/= confirmation.

do you comprehend very well??

Several key words -- emergency --- this situation is hardly an emergency of any magnitude.

Second -- this is talking about a first baptism and as such you again are on very shaky ground.....

In order to recieve the proper documents and such the priest/church has to approve/sanction/bless..etc... that first baptism.


Sure anyone can baptuse but by itself without the churches blessing it hold little to no water@!!!

 

[MagnusTheBrewer]

Seriously... I am agnostic. The reference to TV evangelists is pretty clearly a 'dig' at their mercenary natures.

As to the seriousness of missing Sunday Mass, this might help:

http://www.cuf.org/faithfacts/details_view.asp?ffID=164

I'm not out to defend Catholic beliefs, but just trying to shed light on the priest's point of view.

Thanks for the link, I did not know that. I guess being Lutheran, we're taught more about the importance of Christ's love than the codicils of the Catholic church. I do think the priest is attempting to create leverage through guilt but, that's been a fine tradition in the Catholic church for centuries.

 

[Wyndru]

You know, you seem to have no issue coming up with all the reasons why you shouldn't be a Catholic, so why not go the distance? If God is about love, go look for a church that is too.

How does wanting to work this out with the priest, admitting that I still consider myself a good catholic, proving that I want to be a better catholic by visiting mass and being confused on why I'm not being allowed to baptize our daughter equate to me not wanting to be a catholic?

 

[Staples]

Question, why is it important for your daughter to be baptized when you don't goto church as required? I mean if you aren't following one of the rules of this church, then why do you want to follow the others. Either you are practicing your religion or not, you can't have it both ways.

I agree with this assertion. I would NOT go out of my way to get my children baptized since I do not go to church and am really agnostic.

 

[Perknose]

4 times? Seems pretty unorthodox. I that is was SOP to pass it around just before communion.

This was the same decades ago in my Catholic experience. The basket was passed around 4-5 times, each time for a different fund. So, it's nothing new or isolated.

 

[Malak]

How does wanting to work this out with the priest, admitting that I still consider myself a good catholic, proving that I want to be a better catholic by visiting mass and being confused on why I'm not being allowed to baptize our daughter equate to me not wanting to be a catholic?

Baptism was never supposed to be done exclusively by priests and only on their authority, and you experienced why. Do you want religion or God? If religion, then go ahead and work it out with your priest. Keep in mind, Jesus didn't. He wasn't interested in just being a "good Jew".

 

[PowerEngineer]

Thanks for the link, I did not know that. I guess being Lutheran, we're taught more about the importance of Christ's love than the codicils of the Catholic church. I do think the priest is attempting to create leverage through guilt but, that's been a fine tradition in the Catholic church for centuries.

I would fully expect that Lutherans would teach their beliefs, not those of the Catholics.

And if there weren't differences, then they wouldn't be different religions.

Perhaps the priest is creating a feeling of guilt, but that is arguably the first step towards repentance for past sins and a return to the path to salvation. As he sees it, the priest is also defending the sanctity of the sacraments which are only administered to church members.

I'm just trying to suggest a more positive motivation for the priest's actions than other posters have offered. I also think the OP would be better served by assuming that the priest's intentions are 'good' when he meets with him.

 

[xaeniac]

Contact another priest.

 

[MagnusTheBrewer]

I would fully expect that Lutherans would teach their beliefs, not those of the Catholics.

And if there weren't differences, then they wouldn't be different religions.

Perhaps the priest is creating a feeling of guilt, but that is arguably the first step towards repentance for past sins and a return to the path to salvation. As he sees it, the priest is also defending the sanctity of the sacraments which are only administered to church members.

I'm just trying to suggest a more positive motivation for the priest's actions than other posters have offered. I also think the OP would be better served by assuming that the priest's intentions are 'good' when he meets with him.

Lutherans pretty much are Catholics, we just have more fun at it.

The sanctity of the sacraments comes from God not the church. The sacraments are offered to anyone who understands what they represent and desires to receive them. I would argue that receiving them automatically makes you a member of the church not the other way around.

 

[IronWing]

do you comprehend very well??

Several key words -- emergency --- this situation is hardly an emergency of any magnitude.

Second -- this is talking about a first baptism and as such you again are on very shaky ground.....

In order to recieve the proper documents and such the priest/church has to approve/sanction/bless..etc... that first baptism.


Sure anyone can baptuse but by itself without the churches blessing it hold little to no water@!!!

I'm beginning to suspect that you are not Catholic. In Catholic doctrine baptism sticks. Catholics ain't a bunch of dunking booth happy birds.

You can read up on Catholic doctrine here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sacraments_of_the_Catholic_Church
and this is also relevant to the discussion.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ex_opere_operato

 

[PowerEngineer]

Lutherans pretty much are Catholics, we just have more fun at it.

The sanctity of the sacraments comes from God not the church. The sacraments are offered to anyone who understands what they represent and desires to receive them. I would argue that receiving them automatically makes you a member of the church not the other way around.

Catholics don't expect religion to be 'fun'

Again... Everyone is entitled to an opinion on what the beliefs should be, and I certainly wouldn't want to argue with you about your thoughts on sacraments. That said, what you express is not (at least to my understanding) the Catholic belief, and they are equally entitled to their beliefs. If you want to be a Catholic, then it stands to reason that you need to accept/share their core beliefs (which I certainly do not).

 

[Perknose]

Lutherans pretty much are Catholics, we just have more fun at it.

The sanctity of the sacraments comes from God not the church. The sacraments are offered to anyone who understands what they represent and desires to receive them. I would argue that receiving them automatically makes you a member of the church not the other way around.

You can argue anything you wish, and you can dispute Catholic doctrine vs. what you believe all you wish as well and I'd be likely to side with you, but you do realize the absurdity of you, as a Lutheran, trying to tell Catholics what Catholic doctrine is, don't you?

 

[IronWing]

You can argue anything you wish, and you can dispute Catholic doctrine vs. what you believe all you wish as well and I'd be likely to side with you, but you do realize the absurdity of you, as a Lutheran, trying to tell Catholics what Catholic doctrine is, don't you?

Oh I don't know. I'm not a Catholic anymore but it doesn't slow me down none. The Catholic Church, being a bureaucracy, writes everything down in canon law and the Catechism. All you have to do is read and comprehend to argue Catholic doctrine.