So our priest denied our daughter's baptism...

[F1N3ST]

Good for her. Religion will only anchor her down in a sea of ignorance.

Oh dear. That's too good. Seriously.

 

[MikeyIs4Dcats]

things like this are why we left the catholic church and became episcopalian.

 

[zinfamous]

I'm kind of annoyed. The wife and I are Roman Catholic, and the reasoning was that we don't visit every week. I'll admit, we are pretty lax, we go on major religious holidays, probably about 6 times a year.

We fully intended on our daughter getting her baptism and eventually confirmation and attending fairly regularly while she is growing up. Yet we are actually being denied, and she is being punished because of our lack of attendance. I was baptized, confirmed and married at this parish too.

What I don't understand is that churches keep complaining about lack of parishioners, yet they push you away if you aren't dedicated to a weekly commitment.

wtf.

Sorry, I had to write this here to get it out, I'm still trying to cool down a bit before I email the priest back.

/rant

Schism.

It's the only way to be sure.

 

[zinfamous]

No, that's the Mormons.

THe Catholics have been doing it for nearly 2000 years longer than the mormons, and consequently, have 1 million billion times more cash.

hell, the only reason Catholic priests aren't allowed to marry is so that the church becomes their only heir when they die. Seriously. The forbidding of marriage for priests is still somewhat new in the history of the Catholic church.

 

[IronWing]

THe Catholics have been doing it for nearly 2000 years longer than the mormons, and consequently, have 1 million billion times more cash.

hell, the only reason Catholic priests aren't allowed to marry is so that the church becomes their only heir when they die. Seriously. The forbidding of marriage for priests is still somewhat new in the history of the Catholic church.

Actually it was to prevent bishops from passing on their posts to their sons, abolishing hereditary sees.

 

[Perknose]

Oh I don't know. I'm not a Catholic anymore but it doesn't slow me down none. The Catholic Church, being a bureaucracy, writes everything down in canon law and the Catechism. All you have to do is read and comprehend to argue Catholic doctrine.

Do0d, I left the Catholic Church at age 11, under circumstances that left me fiercely and emotionally anti-clerical for the succeeding two decades.

I have zero objection to your brand of intelligent and knowledgeable argument, based on citation of written canon law.

However, I do object to those who, knowing little or nothing, just say, "Well I think that . . " regarding what Catholic doctrine is or should be in their eyes. It's beyond useless in its masturbatory self-importance.

 

[MagnusTheBrewer]

You can argue anything you wish, and you can dispute Catholic doctrine vs. what you believe all you wish as well and I'd be likely to side with you, but you do realize the absurdity of you, as a Lutheran, trying to tell Catholics what Catholic doctrine is, don't you?

You would be correct if we were talking about different Gods but, we are not. Lutherans are quite close to Catholics in beliefs but do differ in ideology. I never let absurdity get in the way of a good discussion which I'm amazed to say we seem to be having in a religious thread.

 

[zinfamous]

There was like tons more, but here is the part where he explains why.

I don't want to feel, when I baptize a baby, that I'm like a priest who has been asked to marry a couple who have told him they want to get married for, maybe financial reasons, but don't really love one another. If I'm going to perform a baptism I want to know that the parents are seriously about TRYING to live a Christian life and that Eucharist (Mass) is a significant part of it because that makes the baptism genuine and sincere and I know that the faith will get passed on, which is at the heart of the commitment parents make at a baptism.

Just tell him that you're not sure you want to keep communicating with someone who is not seriously about professional grammar use. :sneaky:

 

[Perknose]

...but you do realize the absurdity of you, as a Lutheran, trying to tell Catholics what Catholic doctrine is, don't you?

You would be correct if we were talking about different Gods but, we are not.

Focus, Magnus, my point is correct. You simply don't get to tell Catholics what Catholic doctrine IS.

You can disagree with Catholic doctrine, you can point out where and how you believe Lutheran doctrine is better re: this same God, BUT, my point stands, you do not get to tell Catholics what Catholic doctrine is.

 

[zinfamous]

This is what happens to unbaptized babies...

rofl.

wtf?

 

[MagnusTheBrewer]

Focus, Magnus, my point is correct. You simply don't get to tell Catholics what Catholic doctrine IS.

You can disagree with Catholic doctrine, you can point out where and how you believe Lutheran doctrine is better re: this same God, BUT, my point stands, you do not get to tell Catholics what Catholic doctrine is.

It's too early to focus and too early for being a grouch. I can tell Catholics anything I want because everyone knows God is on my side. ()

 

[NinjaTech]

Except churches are closing/merging because of shit like this, and priests are actually pushing people away. It doesn't make sense to me. There are VERY few people in my generation that I see at mass, it's all old people and young parents with their kids. This seems normal that we weren't there every week during our 20's, but as a new family I plan on being more active. In his email, he is basically saying we don't want you anymore because you haven't been around.

Oh, and regarding the taking time from other loyal parishioners, they have so many baptisms on sunday that they actually just line them up and do them off to the side, and put them up on a projector screen for the parish to watch. Even 3 or 4 of them can be knocked off in like 15 minutes. Mass isn't even extended.

My church is growing so big that they had to build an auditorium and had to schedule three separate services on Sunday. I go to a non-denominational Christian church which basically means we accept all people from any religious background. So not all churches are on the decline.

Your heart seems to be in the right place. I apologize for being so judgmental in my last post. It is just that people expect so much from religion and the church without giving anything in return.

 

[Malak]

You can argue anything you wish, and you can dispute Catholic doctrine vs. what you believe all you wish as well and I'd be likely to side with you, but you do realize the absurdity of you, as a Lutheran, trying to tell Catholics what Catholic doctrine is, don't you?

I would be surprised to see that a majority of Catholics know much about their doctrine, let alone ever even read the bible sitting in the pew they sit in from time to time. The absurdity is more in how much the doctrine ignores that bible. I understand the point that people shouldn't try telling someone what their religion is about, but Catholicism is unique in having traditions and rituals that are opposite what it considers holy scripture. The worst part is that thanks to Hollywood and history, most people think Christianity = Catholic Church. They don't even come close to matching.

 

[PowerEngineer]

You would be correct if we were talking about different Gods but, we are not. Lutherans are quite close to Catholics in beliefs but do differ in ideology. I never let absurdity get in the way of a good discussion which I'm amazed to say we seem to be having in a religious thread.

One point being made here is that people who aren't actually familiar with the beliefs of a particular organized religion (in this case, the Catholics) need to tread more carefully when making assertions about what that religion's beliefs actually are. Some of what has been posted is off the mark.

Another point is that (regardless of what our own beliefs might be) we should respect the rights of others to have different beliefs (and that respect extends to not making light of their cerimonies or sacraments by participation under false pretenses).

What we are not having is a discussion about which religion is right.

Personally, I think they're all wrong. ()

 

[Perknose]

It's too early to focus and too early for being a grouch. I can tell Catholics anything I want because everyone knows God is on my side. ()

Reminds me of the old joke, usually done with the Pope, iirc. Someone whips out a pic of you and God side by side, and asks a random stranger if they recognize the guy in the picture.

This person replies, "I don't know who the guy with the long white beard and flowing white robes* is, but he's standing right next to MagnusTheBrewer!









*For the Pope it's "guy in the funny hat."

 

[Perknose]

I would be surprised to see that a majority of Catholics know much about their doctrine, let alone ever even read the bible sitting in the pew they sit in from time to time.

Prepare to be even more surprised. The Catholic hierarchy actively discourages Catholics from reading the Bible at all.

There are NO Bibles in the pews of a Catholic church, none.

 

[zinfamous]

That is an excellent question. Some take it further even and ask whether any religion is the right one. That, of course, is what happens when you separate God and religion. As two separate entities, it's easy to look at religion and wonder what the point is. It is also impossible to pick a correct one, because without God none are correct. Religion is most often defined by tradition, ritual, and dogma.

My religion is to love God and love you. Do you think I picked the right one?

I love Baal.

did I pick the correct God/religion?

 

[zinfamous]

I agree with this, and hopefully the priest will give us the opportunity to do so. In hindsight, I wish I knew the requirements when she was born 2 months ago, because we would have brought her to church every week screaming, wailing and pooping so we wouldn't have a problem now. My wife went twice since she was born (while I watched her), but I guess that doesn't really count. Unfortunately the priest was on vacation since June, so he wouldn't have seen her anyhow, and he didn't respond until yesterday. We should have just brought her anyway. Oh well, you live and you learn.

yeah, so it basically sounds like your priest is simply being a wise and beautiful woman.

 

[zinfamous]

As I pointed out in an earlier post, Catholics see weekly attendance at Mass as being so important that it is a damning sin not to do so. If you can't reconcile your opinions with the Catholic beliefs, then you shouldn't expect (or want) to be a Catholic.

well, you're obviously not a European Catholic. Outside of Ireland, I believe attendance has fallen somewhere ~18%/week. Or it was 5 years ago, at least.
Italy has the worst attendance, actually, but they still get all horny for the Holy Virgin on a regular basis.

 

[Malak]

Prepare to be even more surprised. The Catholic hierarchy actively discourages Catholics from reading the Bible at all.

There are NO Bibles in the pews of a Catholic church, none.

The first part I wasn't surprised about at all, reading of the bible has been discouraged for centuries. Still, I had hoped that it would have changed at some point. I guess I give them too much credit.

 

[Malak]

I love Baal.

did I pick the correct God/religion?

Baal's priests got blown up by God a long time ago. Everyone knows this.

 

[IronWing]

The first part I wasn't surprised about at all, reading of the bible has been discouraged for centuries. Still, I had hoped that it would have changed at some point. I guess I give them too much credit.

When I had to take summer CCD, each year the first thing handed out in class was ... a bible. Since we had to take CCD every year we ended up with more bibles than a person reasonably needed. I think I was in HS before I got a copy of the Catechism. When my mom was growing up, they got the Catechism first and bibles at Confirmation. I'm not sure I ever visited a Catholic household that didn't have a bible on the shelf. Not saying everyone read them, but they did have them. In Catholic HS, we read the bible cover to cover including the apocrypha , even the super boring parts, in religion class.

 

[sandorski]

Baal's priests got blown up by SG1 a long time ago. Everyone knows this.

fixed

 

[Eli]

All of this talking and joking about monetary donations is quite sickening, to be honest. I mean, really? Isn't that the biggest clue that it is a crock of shit? Money? Really? God, if he exists, does not want money. Money should never enter into a religious discussion. If a "donation" will make this priest change his mind, it's all fake.

It really boggles my mind.

 

[FelixDeCat]

Prepare to be even more surprised. The Catholic hierarchy actively discourages Catholics from reading the Bible at all.

There are NO Bibles in the pews of a Catholic church, none.

Thats never been my experience. Yes, Bibles arent in pews but I think thats a cost issue. Our priest(s) have always encouraged parishioners to read scripture as followup to sermons or messages printed in weekly announcements passed out at church. Scripture is read aloud during mass by the priest and parishioners. You can follow the readings with the excerpt printed in missalettes.

I dont know if you ever tune into EWTN radio or TV (cable), but you can listen live on the internet. It keeps Catholics informed 24x7 about everything going on around us, news, events, talk shows, messages from Rome, etc. Our local station is at grnonline.com (Guadalupe Radio Network). I listen everyday when Im driving around along with other AM/FM stations. Two good priests with good shows are Father Mitch Pacwa and Father Benedict Groeschel.