Although I'm against China using force to retrieve Taiwan, I don't see how they don't have a claim to it to begin with. It would be like complaining about the North in the US Civil War on the sole basis that they shouldn't fight them because the South was a Democracy.
Although I'm against China using force to retrieve Taiwan, I don't see how they don't have a claim to it to begin with. It would be like complaining about the North in the US Civil War on the sole basis that they shouldn't fight them because the South was a Democracy.
Originally posted by: ShadowOfMyself
Ive never been to either USA or China, but I hate how proud everyone seems to be about living in the US
Either way, Japan is high on my "must visit" countries (others include Finland, Sweden, Holland and a bunch more, mostly european based), USA isnt even on the list
Its just that, you flame the OP left and right for thinking life in China is better, but isnt that a bunch of irony right there? If he thinks life is better there he has his reasons, why are you entitled to say USA is better? So you dont support China's political views, too bad, maybe someone else does, and at least hes been to both countries and is talking from experience
My 2 cents
I consider myself damn lucky to have grown up in the US. And to have lived here most of my life and made my roots here.
But I agree with you that its disgusting how arrogant some people are about living here.
Originally posted by: Aflac
Originally posted by: chizow
All fun and games until you run out of your hard earned US dollars, need to find a job over there, and then find out why those games are only $8.50
Hahaha :thumbsup: 10/10
11/10
rh71
No Lifer
- Aug 28, 2001
- 52,844
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My mom didn't want my brother and I to accompany her to China (Beijing was it?) for fear of not being allowed to leave. That was just 5-7 years ago. Things must've changed big time eh? I do want to see it with all this talk of their growing economy.
So far, I've been to 6 different countries and the US (at least here in NY) is still on top in my book.
So far, I've been to 6 different countries and the US (at least here in NY) is still on top in my book.
I saw your sweet liberal rhetoric post. I hope you do fulfill your goal of staying there, then we will have one less American hating douche bag in this country.
Enjoy your time there and hope to god you don't get arrested, you're one out of billions and you mean less than dirt.
Isn't the chinese minimum wage around $200/month? That's some serious bread!
Enjoy your time there and hope to god you don't get arrested, you're one out of billions and you mean less than dirt.
Isn't the chinese minimum wage around $200/month? That's some serious bread!
Chinese rural peasants riot regularly. Chinese workers rebel against brutal abuse by businesses regularly. Social services in china force you to abort your second child. Your house is confiscated and you are relocated to a tenament when some corporation needs your land. The void between upper and lower class income in China is one of the fastest growing on the planet.
Whatever your degree is in, it certainly isn't in economics. And when the chinese drain your knowledge from you, they will spit you back out like the trash all over Guangzhou.
We've had WMMT3 in the US for a while now.
Even before November of last year I think. Not a lot of arcades have them, but some do. Wangan Midnight Maximum Tune 1,2 & 3 is based on the Wangan Midnight manga. There is no PC version of the game but there is one for the PS3. Unfortunately, its off the Tokyo Xtreme Racer series so it doesn't play like the arcade, I think it plays like ass to be honest, just like all the other TXR games.Anyway, if you want to know if theres an arcade with a WMMT3 machine near you or if you want to check out translated volumes of the manga go check out this forum:
Text
Originally posted by: LongCoolMother
Originally posted by: puffff
Originally posted by: ShadowOfMyself
Ive never been to either USA or China, but I hate how proud everyone seems to be about living in the US
Either way, Japan is high on my "must visit" countries (others include Finland, Sweden, Holland and a bunch more, mostly european based
Its just that, you flame the OP left and right for thinking life in China is better, but isnt that a bunch of irony right there? If he thinks life is better there he has his reasons, why are you entitled to say USA is better? So you dont support China's political views, too bad, maybe someone else does, and at least hes been to both countries and is talking from experience
My 2 cents
I consider myself damn lucky to have grown up in the US. And to have lived here most of my life and made my roots here.
But I agree with you that its disgusting how arrogant some people are about living here.
I agree with both of you.:thumbsup:
Totally.. just look at this arrogant post:
Ok, who cares about the Chinese minimum wage? What about the minimum wage in the US? Did you ever read that book Nickeled and Dimed in America where it shows that it's impossible to live off of minimum wage in the US? I think more than half of ATOT doesn't really know what China is like. There are tons of people who think it's all about millions of bicycles on the street, but I swear it isn't. Even if you go out into the inland regions like Szechuan people have cars damnit. China is a huge country and it's impossible to expect everyone to be well off. I can assure you there are enough people that are well off to make huge cities like Shanghai and Beijing look rather attractive.
The OP enjoys China, so what? The rest of us enjoy the US or whatever country we call our home, but there's no reason to give him the GTFO attitude. Since most of us are from the US would you like the rest of non American posters ganging up and say "Go rot away in the US with all the other trash. One less douche we have to live in the rest of the good places in the world." Well I guess us Americans are quite pompous so it doesn't really hurt us to see such words, but still, it's disgusting that all of you are so negative towards China. And it's not just this thread. Every thread we talk about Olympics, or Chinese "reverse engineering," theres plenty of negative feelings being thrown around. It pisses me off. Yes I'm proud to be an Asian.
You realize the independence issue in Taiwan is a little more complicated than most people think, especially if you're not Asian? I have a handful of Asian friends who don't really understand the politics behind it either. The only friends I have who really get it are those fobby Taiwanese ones.
It's all about identity of the Taiwanese people. Most Taiwanese are from Fujian province and you're considered native Taiwanese by today's standards if your family was there pre-1949 revolution. Those who arrived afterwards are often called outsiders. Why do you think Taiwan itself is so divided? In the recent legislative elections the pan-Blues (typically associated with the non-native Taiwanese) clearly won, and in the upcoming elections you can see that Taiwanese independence is a huge issue still. I'm half Taiwanese, half outsider/foreign, meaning my mom's side is full Taiwanese. Her parents were in Taiwan during the Japanese occupation. My dad's side arrived after the 1949 revolution. While I don't particularly take a side, I can see why some Taiwanese people push for independence. It's not that they're a democracy, it's that they're an entirely different people. The language is different too. Southern Taiwan is particularly dominant in native Taiwanese, and if you don't speak Taiwanese you will be treated like dirt. The Taiwanese accent in Chinese is also different. When we were in Hong Kong a few weeks ago I remember our tour leader was like "I think some of you are Taiwanese based on the Chinese you're speaking?" and this took only a matter of seconds for her to say when she first met us.
If you've ever been to Taiwan and China, you will realize that culturally there's a lot of things that are different. Taiwan is a lot closer to Japan and Hong Kong in terms of being culturally trendy and what not. It's a different world, even though we're all considered Chinese. Taiwan/China brings about intense debates. It's something that I still don't fully get, and seeing those daily food fights in Taiwanese legislature might show you how passionate some people get.
rh71
No Lifer
- Aug 28, 2001
- 52,844
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I think it's more the OP's approach at the subject. People immediately felt defensive. Can't expect much less though, especially with the population we have around here. It'd probably be an even worse response if he said it to a bunch of people in some random US location less educated. I agree some comments were written by ignorants and you can tell - I get pretty sick of ATOT sometimes - how does that make you feel (GTFO?). I don't think there's anything you can do to change their minds. Some people did bring up good points like bringing in American money in the first place though.
Not that I agree with the OP's method, but like he said, if you haven't been there...
China has many good things going for it. It is a very beautiful country and has numerous fantastic natural wonders as well as some amazing cultural sites like the Great Wall and the Forbidden City. The food is varied and fantastic and not much like what we call Chinese food here in the States.
It's hard to gauge the people without speaking the language so I cannot really say much on the subject. I can say that they do not understand lining up for a counter like at the airport. It's a free for all, and you have to push your way through to get attention. It's similar in Japan in the same situations, and it's rather amusing when you experience it for the first time. Good thing that even smaller Americans like myself are still more sizeable than most of the Chinese!
All that being said, it's still a totalitarian government that rigidly controls the population, and a large percentage of the people suffer from serious poverty and horrible working conditions. Ask someone associated with the Falun Gong how "free" and tolerate China is toward religious groups. When you exit the train station traveling from Guangzhou to Hong Kong, you are welcomed with some rather graphic pictures of what happens to those labeled dissidents at the hands of the Chinese government.
Also, those wonderful natural sites are under attack now as the Chinese government hasn't put any effort into controlling pollution. The air in Changsha, where we spent a week during December '04, had the worst air I have ever breathed, and it made us both sick with respiratory infections. A river in northern China caught fire not too long ago. The Chinese recently completed the Three River Gorges dam, dislocating thousands of people, submerging numerous important cultural archeological sites, and causing significant ecological damage with mudslides and a build-up of polluted runoff behind the dam. The Chinese government is aiming to build more coal plants than the United States, and they are not even remotely "green".
China > United States? I guess it depends if the measure of "better" is merely the price of video games and the quality of arcades or if there are more criteria to consider.
It's hard to gauge the people without speaking the language so I cannot really say much on the subject. I can say that they do not understand lining up for a counter like at the airport. It's a free for all, and you have to push your way through to get attention. It's similar in Japan in the same situations, and it's rather amusing when you experience it for the first time. Good thing that even smaller Americans like myself are still more sizeable than most of the Chinese!
All that being said, it's still a totalitarian government that rigidly controls the population, and a large percentage of the people suffer from serious poverty and horrible working conditions. Ask someone associated with the Falun Gong how "free" and tolerate China is toward religious groups. When you exit the train station traveling from Guangzhou to Hong Kong, you are welcomed with some rather graphic pictures of what happens to those labeled dissidents at the hands of the Chinese government.
Also, those wonderful natural sites are under attack now as the Chinese government hasn't put any effort into controlling pollution. The air in Changsha, where we spent a week during December '04, had the worst air I have ever breathed, and it made us both sick with respiratory infections. A river in northern China caught fire not too long ago. The Chinese recently completed the Three River Gorges dam, dislocating thousands of people, submerging numerous important cultural archeological sites, and causing significant ecological damage with mudslides and a build-up of polluted runoff behind the dam. The Chinese government is aiming to build more coal plants than the United States, and they are not even remotely "green".
China > United States? I guess it depends if the measure of "better" is merely the price of video games and the quality of arcades or if there are more criteria to consider.
Svnla
Lifer
- Nov 10, 2003
- 17,986
- 1,388
- 126
OP, you can't be serious. Let do some history about Communism, shall we?
Ask the Chineses about the "Great Leap Forward" and Red Revolution (small red pamplets anyone?) programs by Mao and how many people died then.
Ask the Cambodians about the Khmer Rouge's "Killing Field" and how the communists killed their own people in the millions (1.7 millions or 21% of the population).
Ask the Vietnameses about the "re-educate" camps for former government employees/soldiers. Ask them how they feel about the government just took over their lands and properties because they "exploited the poors".
Ask the Russians about how Stalin treated them at Siberian prisons (Gulag).
Those are just a small number of examples and I could go on but you get the points.
The poverty is largely a result of china's immense population, and failed government policies decades ago. A country just can't advance every single person into better living conditions overnight. Throw a peasant into an office environment and he'll be completely overwhelmed. I think if you look in recent years though, you can say progress has been made.
You mention how their government persecutes those of certain beliefs... well, it's not like everything is perfect here too. The persecution just comes from a different source. Publicly declare yourself a communist, or openly support polygamy, and watch how society will ostracize you. Hell, just express your opinion that the US isn't the best country in the world, and look at the backlash you get.
Toonces
Golden Member
- Feb 5, 2000
- 1,690
- 0
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Mega Tomago
Available at every Japanese McDonald's I've seen in the past 5 months of living here...
You're right about it being more expensive, that costs about $6 USD with fries and drink.
Then again, I can pick up a 20-pcs Nigiri sushi dinner locally for about $4 so to each their own
Many of the impoverished live in the cities now as they toil away at low paying but back breaking jobs in the manufacturing facilities which have moved from the U.S. and Europe to China over the years. The "failed government policies", I would assume, are those that fail to mandate any sort of worker health and well being and fail to forbid the firing of female workers who become pregnant, for instance. Those are not from decades ago -- they are in existence now. China doesn't want to change them because then the cost of employing manufacturing workers will rise, and the international businesses which have relocated manufacturing might find that it's cheaper to avoid transportation and supply line costs by relocating manufacturing to other countries.
As for the persecuting of beliefs, any comparison between China and any Western nation (ie., U.S., Canada, EU, ANZAC, etc) is, quite frankly, absurd. Last time I checked, no group in the United States has been bulldozed and machinegunned by the Army for demonstrating for rights. I also don't recall that self-proclaimed communists are rounded up, detained, and tortured by the United States government. We're not talking about ostrasizing by society -- it's the GOVERNMENT which is using its agents to persecute and execute its citizenry to maintain control.
I am far from a Chinese bigot -- I owe a large debt to an unknown woman in China who gave up her daughter who is now part of our family and also sincere thanks to the Chinese government program that allows for foreigners to adopt the orphans in China. Unlike numerous people who have gone through a Chinese adoption, however, I am not blind to the realities of life in that country nor to the realities of its regime. Any who universally praises the Chinese government is an idiot or an agent.
Hopefully, within a year or two, we'll be adopting another little girl from China so my daughter can be a big sister, and I very much look forward to traveling to China again (this time with a real camera!). It is a culturally rich country with wonderful people, and I just hope that one day they will experience real freedom with the benefits that go along with it.
Link
The failed government policies I referred to are the Great Leap Forward and the Cultural Revolution in the 70s (I think). The World Bank article also attributes the "severe, pervasive rural poverty" to these events. Since 1981, poverty in china has fallen from 53% to 8%. Wikipedia has the improvement from 65% to 10%. I would call this progress. By comparison, India has improved its poverty levels from 51% to 27%.. Yes, there are gross violations when it comes to employer practices, but don't think that their government doesn't want to fix them. Show me a country that has gone from third world to first world without growing pains. These things take time to fix.
sdifox
No Lifer
- Sep 30, 2005
- 98,907
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Originally posted by: Build it Myself
lol, the whole point is that you don't go to Japan to order a Bigmac, so why shouldn't you pay more for it, it's nasty. go there and enjoy Japanese food
Noobtastic, it's funny you should mention an elitist society in Japan...take a look at the U.S. I don't know where you live but I got into a private school and since my parents arn't LOADED i'm considered an outcast because I wear clothes I can afford and my wife doesn't tote Louise Vitton bags which is stupid because we've got better grades. funny huh?
back up a bit... are you saying you are married, still in private school and your parents are paying for everything?
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