I somehow thought you were older from the whole coffee setup many posts ago.
I don't know many 25 yo coffee connoisseurs.
I don't know many 25 yo coffee connoisseurs.I think it depends more on the individual than the fact that they have a degree or not. A smart person will always have value, while an idiot won't. I guess it depends on what your gifts are.
I can't talk for anyone else but myself. Personally, I have no need to make excuses, as I'm doing well. If someone else isn't doing well, that's their business, not mine.
he had money to start with, though.
the job i'll probably get when i graduate i could get right now without my degree and only pays about 32K/year, but i need the combo of the degree and the job experience to get into grad school. after grad school and getting state certified, i'll finally be ready to do the profession i want to do. at that point, i should be able to pull down anywhere from 70K to 200K. but clearly if all you want to do is make money, there are quicker ways to get there.
also, i want to point out that most people in this thread who say they have been successful without a degree are doing IT or programming work. IT is a specific trade that happens to have good pay and decent demand but doesn't require school because no school teaches it worth crap. For your average joe without uber-networking skillz, this isn't an option and suddenly the world without a degree looks a lot bleaker. and while working for yourself CAN be lucrative, the vast majority of small businesses fail, and if you've got a family to feed, that risk may not be the smart thing to do.
and if you're looking to Ellison, Dell, or Gates as proof that you can make it big, realize:
A) They were in the right place at the right time, in a situation that will likely never repeat itself, because new technologies are no longer going to be within the grasp of college dropouts. No offense to Rogue, but reading magazines is not going to make you a biotechnology billionaire.
B) These people had MONEY and they had CONNECTIONS. You can't start a business without both. And Gates and Balmer were Ivy League material, regardless of whether or not it was in their best financial interest to finish their degree. If you aren't Ivy League material, you can't compare yourself to them.
So really, unless you have rich parents, just happen to have the keys to the biggest technology revolution ever to strike the planet (and the big companies employing hundreds of thousands of the world's brightest don't already have them), and you're really freaking lucky, forgetaboutit.
Obviously you CAN make a living without a degree. But with a degree, you WILL make a living.
"Hi, I'm Troy McClure. You might recognize me from such films as: "Hi Mom, I'm Unemployed!" and "Why Get a Degree When I Can Get Welfare!"."
The young guys who are still in school shouldn't comment in this thread. Your future is still uncertain so you can't make an educated comment since it's all still a guess.
It's easy to say that "I'll probably" make this or "I should" make that, but in reality you don't. Until you do, withhold comment.
It's easy to say that "I'll probably" make this or "I should" make that, but in reality you don't. Until you do, withhold comment.
aww, c'mon!
You know they still think they are going to graduate and make a ton of money and be a millionaire by 30!
How much do you make per year? With a bold reply like that, I bet you make a whole lot. Please don't reply with fanciful future predictions- what do you make right now?
Originally posted by: spidey07
aww, c'mon!
You know they still think they are going to graduate and make a ton of money and be a millionaire by 30!
lol, Yeah.
It's always easy to live vicariously through someone else or in a future reality that doesn't yet exist. If you and I made identical amounts, nothing stops me from saying "but next year I'll be making $350,000 a year while you'll be stuck at the same job!"
Same thing happens when I'm talking about cars to people. They always say, "I know someone with a car faster than yours!". That's great, I do too. I'm only one person while I know a lot of people. In the end, though, we can all only speak for ourselves, at the current moment. Unless someone is personally doing better than you at the current time, they don't have much of a point.
Originally posted by: 91TTZ
Originally posted by: spidey07
aww, c'mon!
You know they still think they are going to graduate and make a ton of money and be a millionaire by 30!
lol, Yeah.
It's always easy to live vicariously through someone else or in a future reality that doesn't yet exist. If you and I made identical amounts, nothing stops me from saying "but next year I'll be making $350,000 a year while you'll be stuck at the same job!"
Same thing happens when I'm talking about cars to people. They always say, "I know someone with a car faster than yours!". That's great, I do too. I'm only one person while I know a lot of people. In the end, though, we can all only speak for ourselves, at the current moment. Unless someone is personally doing better than you at the current time, they don't have much of a point.
Well I'm just saying I see it all the time. Kids get out and go apecrap over making 50K or decent money, then assume they are going to be making "the big bucks" by the time they are 30 so they spend out the wazoo.
then 28 hits them, no house, making 80K and wondering what happened.
then 30 and no millionaire but still got that 1% raise last year.
Hopefully they'll be able to build their networth, but they worry about that "when I make it big", but that day never comes. And then they realize there is nothing special about what you do, your degree or your paycheck. Its just "the real world"
I don't picture myself getting out of college and living it big, rolling in dough and being famous because I'm a super engineer or anything. I picture having a normal job that has its ups and downs and that provides well for me (hopefully). But to me, THAT is what the education's for! Because without it, I see barely getting by, barely saving for retirement, and never having a job that is related to my interests in any way whatsoever.
It is possible to get a good job without a degree, but it certainly takes a bit of luck to get one, and I'm not about to quit school and go back to a job that pays $20k annually and hope for something good to come along. On top of that, there's always security to think about, and if you lose your job and suddenly only have your high school degree and work experience to fall back on, how quickly will you be able to recover?
I think everyone's dream is owning their own business, degree or not, but quite simply there's a lot of risk and a high chance for failure, and most people aren't cut out for that.
It is possible to get a good job without a degree, but it certainly takes a bit of luck to get one, and I'm not about to quit school and go back to a job that pays $20k annually and hope for something good to come along. On top of that, there's always security to think about, and if you lose your job and suddenly only have your high school degree and work experience to fall back on, how quickly will you be able to recover?
I think everyone's dream is owning their own business, degree or not, but quite simply there's a lot of risk and a high chance for failure, and most people aren't cut out for that.
my dad is a sheet metal worker, but back when my dad got into the trade it was a good job to have (still seems to support his family quite well), now days he complains at the fact that there are no reliable new people (all of them are losers who failed out of college or never graduated period)
so i see how having a construction job these days may not look good at all
Yup, my dad brings in well over $100k a year profit on 2 weeks of community college.
He owns an HVAC company.
Package Delivery truck man ($50,000+) <but you have to work your way up>
Truck 16-wheeler ($50,000 - 120,000) <hard work, no life>
Metro ($30,000 - 60,000) <same>
Manufacturing ($30,000 - 50,000)
Car Sales ($30,000 - 70,000)
Tech. Certification ($20,000 - 65,000)
Restaurant Bartender/Head Waiter ($30,000 - 50,000)
Dump Truck ($50,000+) <big city>
Construction ($30,000+)
Small business owner (0 - $$$) <i.e. Walmart>
Regional/District manager for a chain store ($50,000 - 200,000) <work your way up and not guaranteed>
Car Maintenence ($50,000 - $$$)
Any blue collar job w/ hard work ($)
.
.
.
Stop looking down on people without the same advantages as most of us. :| If they work hard, they can end up in a better situation than any of us.
Truck 16-wheeler ($50,000 - 120,000) <hard work, no life>
Metro ($30,000 - 60,000) <same>
Manufacturing ($30,000 - 50,000)
Car Sales ($30,000 - 70,000)
Tech. Certification ($20,000 - 65,000)
Restaurant Bartender/Head Waiter ($30,000 - 50,000)
Dump Truck ($50,000+) <big city>
Construction ($30,000+)
Small business owner (0 - $$$) <i.e. Walmart>
Regional/District manager for a chain store ($50,000 - 200,000) <work your way up and not guaranteed>
Car Maintenence ($50,000 - $$$)
Any blue collar job w/ hard work ($)
.
.
.
Stop looking down on people without the same advantages as most of us. :| If they work hard, they can end up in a better situation than any of us.
Saint Nick
Lifer
- Jan 21, 2005
- 17,722
- 6
- 81
If you do, that's certainly not normal. Most college educated people never make that kind of money, especially right out of college.
Toonces
Golden Member
- Feb 5, 2000
- 1,690
- 0
- 76
success = money?
It seems like everyone here is looking at potential jobs and defining how well a person is doing by their income. Those without college degrees can make as much as those with their degrees, as is evident by the list of trades which all pay quite well.
Now, making money is fine and good but what about the conditions of the job and future aspirations about the larger scheme of things. Someone said they knew carpenters who enjoyed their work while college grads hated working behind a desk. I for one would go crazy if my job required little mental effort for no tangible reward other than money.
If you define your life around how much money one can make than nothing else matters, I assume? Aren't there other considerations than yearly income?
I'm not going to be making a lot of money. That isn't my plan. I could graduate law go corporate pull in 250K+ a year and be burnt-out by thirty; but where's the fufilment in that? Personal growth? So I have money to buy objects, wow.
Now, working in a legal field which may only pay 50K-60K a year but shows people in the third world how to exercise their rights and become more free. Defending political prisoners from tyrranical laws or creating new ones where they did not exist before. Helping to promote justice is, for myself, going to make me much happier than driving a Mercedes instead of a Mazda.
So to each there own. Not having a college degree dosen't mean you won't be living a fufilling life, far be it from me to judge someone else's likes or dislikes. But there are other factors to employment than monetary renumeration.
It seems like everyone here is looking at potential jobs and defining how well a person is doing by their income. Those without college degrees can make as much as those with their degrees, as is evident by the list of trades which all pay quite well.
Now, making money is fine and good but what about the conditions of the job and future aspirations about the larger scheme of things. Someone said they knew carpenters who enjoyed their work while college grads hated working behind a desk. I for one would go crazy if my job required little mental effort for no tangible reward other than money.
If you define your life around how much money one can make than nothing else matters, I assume? Aren't there other considerations than yearly income?
I'm not going to be making a lot of money. That isn't my plan. I could graduate law go corporate pull in 250K+ a year and be burnt-out by thirty; but where's the fufilment in that? Personal growth? So I have money to buy objects, wow.
Now, working in a legal field which may only pay 50K-60K a year but shows people in the third world how to exercise their rights and become more free. Defending political prisoners from tyrranical laws or creating new ones where they did not exist before. Helping to promote justice is, for myself, going to make me much happier than driving a Mercedes instead of a Mazda.
So to each there own. Not having a college degree dosen't mean you won't be living a fufilling life, far be it from me to judge someone else's likes or dislikes. But there are other factors to employment than monetary renumeration.
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