So I had a union grievance filed against me....

[tcsenter]

This isn't an issue of maintaining job security, it is the huge university watching it's ass. I am sure the OPP had enough on its plate tht it would have loved for you to carry your own box.

Stop blowing smoke up everyone's ass. Of course this is about protecting the division of labor and job security.

He wasn't attempting to drag a 500lb lawn mower into his office. It was a box. Nor was he attempting to operate some sophisticated piece of equipment that he wasn't trained on. It was a box, which he carried. Using his arms.

I received a verbal warning/reprimand several times for shit like this. Once was because I dared - had the nerve - to pick up a mop and clean the floor because "environmental services" (i.e. the janitors) were really backed up.

I actually had the gall to believe I was helping the team. I know that when I got shit-slammed and someone lightened my load a little, I appreciated it not only for myself but because the entire department functions better when people work as a team.

But in the union shop, there is no "team" in the word "I".

 

[Geekbabe]

so, you want people to recognize that you do additional work, but you're complaining about it by filing a grievance? i mean, that's the whole point of calling something a grievance right? you don't like it and don't want more of it.

seems kind of backwards that you should file a grievance about additional duties yet benefit from performing those duties.

if im understanding all this correctly, which there's a good chance i'm not.

You misunderstand, the filing of the grievance ensures that my extra work and that of my peers is documented. When you are at the bargaining table vague references to extra tasks that have been dumped on you won't cut it, if the extra work outside the job description isn't documented, well it didn't happen. Missing lunch
a couple of times because of extra tasks is not the same as missing lunch 2-3x per week for the last 6 months because of extra tasks.
If all members of a bargaining unit file grievances when assigned work outside their job descriptions, it helps to spot patterns and trends and gives clear, easily verifiable info not just vague grumblings that cannot be substantiated or quantified.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

so, you want people to recognize that you do additional work, but you're complaining about it by filing a grievance? i mean, that's the whole point of calling something a grievance right? you don't like it and don't want more of it.

seems kind of backwards that you should file a grievance about additional duties yet benefit from performing those duties.

if im understanding all this correctly, which there's a good chance i'm not.

I chalk it up to attention whoring. You have those people in any business. Those who think they are God's gift to the company and/or do all this extra stuff but make sure people know about their "extra" effort. In this case it's through the use of a "grievance".

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Stop blowing smoke up everyone's ass. Of course this is about protecting the division of labor and job security.

He wasn't attempting to drag a 500lb lawn mower into his office. It was a box. Nor was he attempting to operate some sophisticated piece of equipment that he wasn't trained on. It was a box, which he carried. Using his arms.

I received a verbal warning/reprimand several times for shit like this. Once was because I dared - had the nerve - to pick up a mop and clean the floor because "environmental services" (i.e. the janitors) were really backed up.

I actually had the gall to believe I was helping the team. I know that when I got shit-slammed and someone lightened my load a little, I appreciated it not only for myself but because the entire department functions better when people work as a team.

But in the union shop, there is no "team" in the word "I".

Yep. I worked in a plant where I was verbally warned for <gasp> plugging in my patch cord to an ethernet grace port on the side of an enclosure. If I wasn't a contractor(control's project) it would have been a written grievance. Seriously - they wanted me to call extension XXX to have someone "authorized" plug me in. Don't mind, I'm the one doing their controls, designed their plant control network, and hired the contractors to do the install/wiring... no - I needed someone else to plug me into my freaking machine. The next day, I called. They said they'd have someone there in 5 minutes. No one showed in 5 so I did it myself. No one came down for 4 hours. I told them to not bother next time and they could file whatever they wanted but I'm not going to wait for anyone for something so stupid. They never hassled me again.

 

[sao123]

That is an idea, you are naive, and in a perfect world, you would be right.
However, the dominant pardigm seems to be "Every man for himself", and Corporations have usurped the notion of Adam Smith's Vision of what 'Moral Men' would do.

Amorality rules the day.
Corporations are sociopathic at their core, and are not swayed by "human-istic" concerns or values.
Their need for Profit over all other concerns is what will keep Unions relevant.

this.

 

[Geekbabe]

I chalk it up to attention whoring. You have those people in any business. Those who think they are God's gift to the company and/or do all this extra stuff but make sure people know about their "extra" effort. In this case it's through the use of a "grievance".

I don't feel that I'm "god's gift" to anybody. I do feel that if an employer wishes to change a job contract by greatly increasing the workload that the extra work should be acknowledged, listed and brought up for discussion at the bargaining table. The grievance is the recognized process for making sure that this happens.

The grievance also protects the worker should an accident or problem happen while they are performing extra duties that are not within their job description. You'd be amazed at how quick a supervisor will stand there and say "I didn't tell him/her to do that" when shiat hits the fan when he or she has been dumping such duties on unqualified people for months, proper filing of grievances can help to collaborate a worker's statement that they are routinely ordered/expected to perform duties outside their skillset/scope of practice.

 

[SacrosanctFiend]

I don't feel that I'm "god's gift" to anybody. I do feel that if an employer wishes to change a job contract by greatly increasing the workload that the extra work should be acknowledged, listed and brought up for discussion at the bargaining table. The grievance is the recognized process for making sure that this happens.

The grievance also protects the worker should an accident or problem happen while they are performing extra duties that are not within their job description. You'd be amazed at how quick a supervisor will stand there and say "I didn't tell him/her to do that" when shiat hits the fan when he or she has been dumping such duties on unqualified people for months, proper filing of grievances can help to collaborate a worker's statement that they are routinely ordered/expected to perform duties outside their skillset/scope of practice.

If an employer wishes to change or add functions to an employee, it is well within their right to do that without any form of additional compensation or recognition. It is also the employee's right to go find another job.

I'm not sure what the point of your second paragraph is. Worker's compensation exist for situations where an employee gets injured. If it's simply disciplinary action due to "he said/she said" you're complaining about, I point again to the fact that the employee has the right to get another job.

 

[Geekbabe]

If an employer wishes to change or add functions to an employee, it is well within their right to do that without any form of additional compensation or recognition. It is also the employee's right to go find another job.

I'm not sure what the point of your second paragraph is. Worker's compensation exist for situations where an employee gets injured. If it's simply disciplinary action due to "he said/she said" you're complaining about, I point again to the fact that the employee has the right to get another job.

Having added duties added to a job description is of course within the employer's right, a process by which additional tasks are routinely heaped on under the threat of "there are people standing in line for your job" is not. You want to significantly increase the workload? fine, put your expectations in writing, workers can then decide if they wish to accept your new terms or go elsewhere.

When you perform duties not within your skillset/ not listed in your job description because you were ordered to do so with the implied threat that you would be fired/disciplined for refusing and a client/patient, co-worker or you get hurt or there's significant property damage, you're not going to get shiat from anybody, what you will get is LIABILITY and a lying POS supervisor denying any knowledge of your actions.The grievance creates a paper trail substanting claims that such requests were usual and customary.

 

[Red Dawn]

If an employer wishes to change or add functions to an employee, it is well within their right to do that without any form of additional compensation or recognition. It is also the employee's right to go find another job.

I'm not sure what the point of your second paragraph is. Worker's compensation exist for situations where an employee gets injured. If it's simply disciplinary action due to "he said/she said" you're complaining about, I point again to the fact that the employee has the right to get another job.

The employees also have the right to organize. The Employer scan choose whether to agree to their demands or not and if nor just hire others. If the Employer agrees to their demands then the Employer has to follow through on the contract.

 

[SacrosanctFiend]

Having added duties added to a job description is of course within the employer's right, a process by which additional tasks are routinely heaped on under the threat of "there are people standing in line for your job" is not. You want to significantly increase the workload? fine, put your expectations in writing, workers can then decide if they wish to accept your new terms or go elsewhere.

When you perform duties not within your skillset/ not listed in your job description because you were ordered to do so with the implied threat that you would be fired/disciplined for refusing and a client/patient, co-worker or you get hurt or there's significant property damage, you're not going to get shiat from anybody, what you will get is LIABILITY and a lying POS supervisor denying any knowledge of your actions.The grievance creates a paper trail substanting claims that such requests were usual and customary.

Actually, while it may not seem fair, it is within an employer's right to routinely heap tasks on under the treat of "there are people standing in line for your job." It's also their right not to put it in writing. Also, an employee who is performing a duty for the company is covered by Worker's compensation, so I'm assuming your emotional response is coming from a bad experience.

Of course, as Red says, employees have the right to try and organize, and that changes the game completely.

Please note that I'm not saying these practices are the right way to conduct business. In fact, they are the opposite of best practices. I'm just saying, employer's have these rights.

 

[Marinski]

i'm union and for anybody that says union employees are all fat, lazy, and don't work hard. You can get you soft bitch ass out of your cushy office chair and work with me for a day. I can guarantee you will go home sore.

 

[hanoverphist]

That'd kind of suck if you were on salary and your Boss decided to save money when moving the office to another site he has you and other salary workers come in on weekend to do the moving. Happened to me and I was not to happy about it but it was the situation you described, either do what you were told or find another job.

That would definitely suck, and I would immediately downgrade my effort to the minimum necessary to keep my job, and start looking for another one.

we had about the same thing go on here. but if you refused, it was no big deal. we had a crew of volunteers move everything, they got paid for the time as well as meals and a bonus check for volunteering.

 

[Red Dawn]

Actually, while it may not seem fair, it is within an employer's right to routinely heap tasks on under the treat of "there are people standing in line for your job." It's also their right not to put it in writing. Also, an employee who is performing a duty for the company is covered by Worker's compensation, so I'm assuming your emotional response is coming from a bad experience.

Of course, as Red says, employees have the right to try and organize, and that changes the game completely.

Please note that I'm not saying these practices are the right way to conduct business. In fact, they are the opposite of best practices. I'm just saying, employer's have these rights.

Yep it's all about rights and free will. You are correct, the employer can add to your job description anything he likes unless he signs a contract with you either individually or collectively outlining what your jobs description is.

 

[hanoverphist]

Yes there are great Tradesmen that aren't union, they tend to be Small Contractors who build custom homes where being Union doesn't make any sense and they make their profits on Labor not material like the Big Contractors.

ummm big contractors make their money on labor just like the little guys. material discounts help with your competitive bidding, if they price it too high then they are losing ground on the overall. since i work for an elec contractor and bid jobs (as well as PM and program), i know this very well. we arent nationwide huge, but we do command a decent discount from supply houses based on our yearly sales of their merchandise. the profit from materials is very minimal at best, no matter where your multiplier is at.

 

[Geekbabe]

Actually, while it may not seem fair, it is within an employer's right to routinely heap tasks on under the treat of "there are people standing in line for your job." It's also their right not to put it in writing. Also, an employee who is performing a duty for the company is covered by Worker's compensation, so I'm assuming your emotional response is coming from a bad experience.

Of course, as Red says, employees have the right to try and organize, and that changes the game completely.

Please note that I'm not saying these practices are the right way to conduct business. In fact, they are the opposite of best practices. I'm just saying, employer's have these rights.

You aren't hearing me, when an employee is asked to do extra work outside the job description under threat of being disciplined or fired, if something bad happens the company can disavow any knowledge of that employee's actions, they can stand there and wring their hands while reassuring an angry patient or patient's family that the would never condone such behavior and that they've fired the worker and will assist the family in their quest to pursue the worker's professional license (if any) and they will leave you hanging to dry if you're sued.

My employer is a fine organization that has some of the best and brightest people in the world working for them who have created a culture of care and compassion that is stellar. Having spoken to many newcomers in our organization, I have no doubt that the contractual benefits offered via the union has attracted and retained
folks with amazing talent that would have gone elsewhere.

 

[Red Dawn]

ummm big contractors make their money on labor just like the little guys. material discounts help with your competitive bidding, if they price it too high then they are losing ground on the overall. since i work for an elec contractor and bid jobs (as well as PM and program), i know this very well. we arent nationwide huge, but we do command a decent discount from supply houses based on our yearly sales of their merchandise. the profit from materials is very minimal at best, no matter where your multiplier is at.

I'm sorry, you are right but the Large Framing Contractors make a higher percentage of their profits on material than the other Contractors.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Having added duties added to a job description is of course within the employer's right, a process by which additional tasks are routinely heaped on under the threat of "there are people standing in line for your job" is not. You want to significantly increase the workload? fine, put your expectations in writing, workers can then decide if they wish to accept your new terms or go elsewhere.

When you perform duties not within your skillset/ not listed in your job description because you were ordered to do so with the implied threat that you would be fired/disciplined for refusing and a client/patient, co-worker or you get hurt or there's significant property damage, you're not going to get shiat from anybody, what you will get is LIABILITY and a lying POS supervisor denying any knowledge of your actions.The grievance creates a paper trail substanting claims that such requests were usual and customary.

Everyone see this? It's the classic "victim" mentality that unions instill in people. Sorry but if you feel like a victim at your workplace or are scared that you'll be a victim at your workplace then I ask - why the hell are you there. No one is forcing you to work there.

 

[EricMartello]

I love my Union without it we would not be grossly overcompensated for doing work that largely requires no skill like all other nonunion shops.

f1x3d

 

[Red Dawn]

Everyone see this? It's the classic "victim" mentality that unions instill in people. Sorry but if you feel like a victim at your workplace or are scared that you'll be a victim at your workplace then I ask - why the hell are you there. No one is forcing you to work there.

Hey asshole, she works in a Hospital that's a Union Shop, she has no reason to be scared. What she was talking about is what could happen if it wasn't.

 

[Geekbabe]

Everyone see this? It's the classic "victim" mentality that unions instill in people. Sorry but if you feel like a victim at your workplace or are scared that you'll be a victim at your workplace then I ask - why the hell are you there. No one is forcing you to work there.

Obviously you've never worked in a poorly staffed, badly run hospital.
I have which is why I now work in a unionized facility.

 

[Red Dawn]

I'm jealous of those in Unions

Fixed

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Hey asshole, she works in a Hospital that's a Union Shop, she has no reason to be scared. What she was talking about is what could happen if it wasn't.

Hey asshole, it doesn't matter where she works or what she does. My comments were about her the union victim mentality BS.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Obviously you've never worked in a poorly staffed, badly run hospital.
I have which is why I now work in a unionized facility.

Nope. Why would one want to work at one? The union doesn't run the hospital so it matters zip about the union.

If someone needs a union to feel safe at their job... they might want to consider a different line of work, or at minimum a company that will treat them the way they want to be treated. Or you could just be lazy, give up your independence, and have someone else do your bidding for you by joining a union.

 

[Geekbabe]

Hey asshole, it doesn't matter where she works or what she does. My comments were about her the union victim mentality BS.

I don't consider myself a "victim" of anything, I disliked how I was treated in poorly run places and got the skills need to get and keep
a position in a well run, properly staffed union facility.

 

[Geekbabe]

Nope. Why would one want to work at one? The union doesn't run the hospital so it matters zip about the union.

If someone needs a union to feel safe at their job... they might want to consider a different line of work, or at minimum a company that will treat them the way they want to be treated. Or you could just be lazy, give up your independence, and have someone else do your bidding for you by joining a union.

The organization I'm employed by is the finest company I've ever worked for, the wages and benefits are good enough to attract top and keep talent, my co-workers are some of the best people on the planet. I'm very happy I chose to vote with my feet and seek employment at this facility which has been wise enough to become a union shop.

Also, the union is the collective voice of it's membership, I attend meetings, read and study proposals and I vote on issues.
I don't sit back lazy and "let" anybody do anything "for" me.