So I had a union grievance filed against me....

[SarcasticDwarf]

Many of you are young, you grew to adulthood and took jobs at which you were handed things like "job descriptions". That list along with a lot of other things such as requiring employers to pay you for overtime
came to be as result in large part from the activity of unions.

I don't think anyone is arguing that unions have not accomplished a lot, they are arguing that the purpose and overall advantages today are questionable.

 

[QuantumPion]

At one of our office locations that is unionized, all of the workers desks are filthy, dirty, dusty, etc. I asked them why the whole place was so gross and they said they weren't allowed to clean up their own cubes because they would get union grievance against them for doing the work of a union janitor. But if they call the union janitor to clean the place up, the union thugs will harass the employees for making them do work. And that is why unions are retarded.

 

[Fritzo]

What's the mater with there? The pays good, the work is honest and there's great satisfaction from building something from the ground up with your own hands.

 

[OCGuy]

Unions need to die.

 

[moshquerade]

... for moving a box from storage to my office.

My response was that if I needed the box 3 weeks from now I would have called and asked someone to get it for me. (which involves filing a work order)

This is where Unions fail.

 

[SacrosanctFiend]

Many of you are young, you grew to adulthood and took jobs at which you were handed things like "job descriptions". That list along with a lot of other things such as requiring employers to pay you for overtime
came to be as result in large part from the activity of unions.

The job description is like a clearly laid out set if expectations and tasks, the rules of the road at work. Should there be room to occasionally do a thing or two not listed in that job description? sure
but once that starts it's a slippery slope. Remember that "no good deed goes unpunished"

The job description exists to prevent exploitation of workers, it also benefits the employer in cases where a person is not performing their work as it provides the basis for the documentation trail via which a worker can be counseled, disciplined or fired.

When I am asked by a superior to do something that is not within my job description, I will comply quietly and not cause issue within ear shot of patients, however I will file a grivance, this is the established process thru which worker rights are protected, it is also the process via which employers look at and modify job descriptions when they need to. If you need your worker's to do more and those extra tasks involve additional skill sets, then you need to rewrite that job description and bring it to the bargaining table.

Foregoing the whole, "Unions had a place back when, but are bothersome now," argument...since when are employers required to maintain job descriptions? Most job descriptions that I've seen also include the phrase, "May perform other duties as assigned." Are job descriptions helpful for paper trails? Yes. Are companies better off with them than without? Yes. However, they are far from a requirement and aren't not 100% necessary for employment actions.

Also, if a superior asks you to do something, whether its in your job description or not, you do it. If you refuse, you get fired (or written-up depending on management style).

 

[Red Dawn]

And the poor individuals with degrees collecting unemployment because some Indian in Bohpal will do the job for a 10th of the price.

 

[TheVrolok]

... for moving a box from storage to my office.

My response was that if I needed the box 3 weeks from now I would have called and asked someone to get it for me. (which involves filing a work order)

For some reason I seem to remember you working up at PSU? If so, I can attest to how irritating the union is. I had similar issues with them when I was working for the University.

 

[daw123]

Have someone build your house with a degree and get back to me.

Up until this post, I didn't even know a union existed for the UK construction industry:
http://www.ucatt.info/

You learn something new everyday.

Either way it probably wouldn't affect me - if the contractor doesn't complete the work on time in full compliance with the spec and contract, he gets penalised financially.

 

[3chordcharlie]

Someone tell me what the point of organized labor is again? I would think that it would be "he who wants a paycheck will do the requested job." It's no wonder the US economy is going to the shitter.

The problem is there is absolutely no limit to what 'the requested job' might entail, and a 'starvation' limit to how small that paycheque might be.

Try a history book.

 

[MagnusTheBrewer]

When I worked for the local school system, I learned that it took a licensed plumber to change the blade on the can opener. The office almost had a heart attack when I requested the kit to do it myself.

 

[edro]

Toyota can build my car... also if you don't go through some massive general contractor, it's not unionized. I'm willing to bet my house wasn't built by unionized labor. No it wasn't built by a mass developer. We tore down the house and we found a contractor.

Neither does Honda.

The two most successful auto makers (Honda and Toyota) do not have unions.

Chevrolet, Chrysler and Ford are known for unions, low quality and insolvency.

Unions = Fail

 

[Geekbabe]

Foregoing the whole, "Unions had a place back when, but are bothersome now," argument...since when are employers required to maintain job descriptions? Most job descriptions that I've seen also include the phrase, "May perform other duties as assigned." Are job descriptions helpful for paper trails? Yes. Are companies better off with them than without? Yes. However, they are far from a requirement and aren't not 100% necessary for employment actions.

Also, if a superior asks you to do something, whether its in your job description or not, you do it. If you refuse, you get fired (or written-up depending on management style).

Every professional job position for which I have applied carries with it a job description. Funny thing the job description, it protects the worker.. but it also protects the employer because I've seen a person or two get hurt over the years while performing a task that the company believed was beyond the scope of their qualifications/ Job description, the worker thinking they were being a team player and stepping up to "help out" got rewarded for that effort not with help
and support for their physical injury but rather with pain, physical limitation and a devil of a legal fight trying to get fairly compensated for it as well as defending their job.

In fields requiring a lot of direct contact with the public, job descriptions are written to also help protect the employer for liability from lawsuits from the customers/clients/patients they serve. Some of the most seemingly innocuous tasks performed outside a job description are like gold for an eager attorney looking to cash in on a malpractice or wrongful death/injury suit against a hospital.

 

[dmcowen674]

Chicago Loses 2nd Major Trade Show In A Week



http://cbs2chicago.com/business/plastics.conventioon.leaving.2.1317642.html

Daley Says McCormick Place, Unions Must Reduce Trade Show Costs To Avoid Further Losses

=========================================

$2000 to plug a refrigerator in an outlet is insane

The total bill came to $240,000 for the convention.

It was supposed to be $40,000

Now 100 of those Union Electricians are on the unemployment line.

 

[Ausm]

Neither does Honda.

The two most successful auto makers (Honda and Toyota) do not have unions.

Chevrolet, Chrysler and Ford are known for unions, low quality and insolvency.

Unions = Fail

it's not the unions fault, I blame it on incompetent management.

 

[bignateyk]

I'm sure you have informed your superiors that you have so little to do that you have decided to surf the web during those times no one is waiting on you. It's pretty obvious you have the time to watch union workers and at times do their jobs.


I have seen all the bad that a union can bring and I have also seen the best.

We do most of our work inside a SCIF which means anyone uncleared has to be watched like a hawk. I got to spend 3 days babysitting union workers a few years ago while they installed a new air conditioner. I sat there all damn day while they took breaks every 15 minutes and took a 2 hour lunch break.

I get polygraphed regularly for my job. If I were slacking off, my superiors would know about it.

 

[bignateyk]

it's not the unions fault, I blame it on incompetent management.

I'd say theres plenty of blame to go around to both.

 

[Red Dawn]

We do most of our work inside a SCIF which means anyone uncleared has to be watched like a hawk. I got to spend 3 days babysitting union workers a few years ago while they installed a new air conditioner. I sat there all damn day while they took breaks every 15 minutes and took a 2 hour lunch break.

I get polygraphed regularly for my job. If I were slacking off, my superiors would know about it.

It's as good thing they didn't polygraph you about the time you watched over that installation of the AC.

 

[Red Dawn]

Chicago Loses 2nd Major Trade Show In A Week



http://cbs2chicago.com/business/plastics.conventioon.leaving.2.1317642.html

Daley Says McCormick Place, Unions Must Reduce Trade Show Costs To Avoid Further Losses

=========================================

$2000 to plug a refrigerator in an outlet is insane

The total bill came to $240,000 for the convention.

It was supposed to be $40,000

Now 100 of those Union Electricians are on the unemployment line.

Yep sounds like another situation of a Union being their own worse enemy.

 

[nerp]

Are you frigging retarded? A state job MAY be lucritive but is not always. I work for a state government. As part of this we get:

* Good medical benefits (but not fantastic)
* Paid 25% under market rate (often more like 40% when you get more experience)
* We can be fired or laid off, it just takes longer than in the private sector

Yes, in some states you do get paid significantly better, but for the most part your total compensation is significantly better in the private sector, especially after having a few years of experience.

Sigh. You have a myopic view. I was talking historically, over many years. Compare salaries of highway department laborers or parks and rec employees who do groundskeeping vs. hired hands for a private landscaper today. In terms of the pay you get and the degree required for town work, entry level workers for the town get quite a nice package in many towns and a much higher salary than a person with an equivalent job in the private sector. Mowing lawns and raking leaves with only a high school degree will net you $45,000 plus full benefits, pension and free healthcare for life in most towns in my area. Mowing lawns and raking leaves for a landscaping company isn't going to get you the same deal.

Obviously, some jobs in the private sector pay more. But I never said that all municipal jobs pay more. My point was that someone out of high school getting a job in a town can retire after 20 or 30 years with a pension (based on current union contracts in most places) and earn a decent salary, even with just the HS degree. The private sector is a far cry from this scenario. People can thank unions for this. I never said it was good or bad. I was simply stating that union contracts are a bit rich now and the trend will be for them to be more lean as more and more communities grapple with horrible budget scenarios.

 

[SacrosanctFiend]

Every professional job position for which I have applied carries with it a job description. Funny thing the job description, it protects the worker.. but it also protects the employer because I've seen a person or two get hurt over the years while performing a task that the company believed was beyond the scope of their qualifications/ Job description, the worker thinking they were being a team player and stepping up to "help out" got rewarded for that effort not with help
and support for their physical injury but rather with pain, physical limitation and a devil of a legal fight trying to get fairly compensated for it as well as defending their job.

In fields requiring a lot of direct contact with the public, job descriptions are written to also help protect the employer for liability from lawsuits from the customers/clients/patients they serve. Some of the most seemingly innocuous tasks performed outside a job description are like gold for an eager attorney looking to cash in on a malpractice or wrongful death/injury suit against a hospital.

Again, I know the merits of a well written job description, and I agree that it is wise for an employer to have them. However, that does not mean that employers are required to have one. Maybe in all the professional jobs you have applied for (I see you work in healthcare, which is an entirely different ballgame), but I know many companies that do not use them.
In addition, job descriptions that are not accurately maintained can be more of a liability to a company than not having one at all.

My whole point was, job descriptions are not a legal requirement. They do not preclude you from doing functions not listed in your job description, and if you refuse, you can be disciplined or terminated.

 

[Zargon]

all of ours where I work end with: 'and other duties as assigned'

 

[SAWYER]

What does atot hate more?
1.religion
2.unions
3.housing authorities

 

[Red Dawn]

Again, I know the merits of a well written job description, and I agree that it is wise for an employer to have them. However, that does not mean that employers are required to have one. Maybe in all the professional jobs you have applied for (I see you work in healthcare, which is an entirely different ballgame), but I know many companies that do not use them.
In addition, job descriptions that are not accurately maintained can be more of a liability to a company than not having one at all.

My whole point was, job descriptions are not a legal requirement. They do not preclude you from doing functions not listed in your job description, and if you refuse, you can be disciplined or terminated.

That'd kind of suck if you were on salary and your Boss decided to save money when moving the office to another site he has you and other salary workers come in on weekend to do the moving. Happened to me and I was not to happy about it but it was the situation you described, either do what you were told or find another job.

 

[SacrosanctFiend]

That'd kind of suck if you were on salary and your Boss decided to save money when moving the office to another site he has you and other salary workers come in on weekend to do the moving. Happened to me and I was not to happy about it but it was the situation you described, either do what you were told or find another job.

That would definitely suck, and I would immediately downgrade my effort to the minimum necessary to keep my job, and start looking for another one.