So I had a union grievance filed against me....

[spacelord]

from my experience not ALL union employees are Lazy.. there just tend to be a fair percentage, depending on the shop, probably 10-30% who have learned how to abuse the union system. Auto plants are usually worse. Its basically people getting away with as little work as they can. I've had to wait around for a union guy to clean up a mess in a workcell for about 30 minutes because the operator couldn't do it..."it wasn't his job". I didn't dare do it myself being non-union... but could have just for the sake of things running efficiently. the union system has been abused way too much for far too long.

its nearly impossible to get a union employee fired. come into work drunk a few times.. he gets probation. they probably love it. As non-salaried if I did most anything these guys do, I'd be canned the first or second time for sure.

 

[Geekbabe]

from my experience not ALL union employees are Lazy.. there just tend to be a fair percentage, depending on the shop, probably 10-30% who have learned how to abuse the union system. Auto plants are usually worse. Its basically people getting away with as little work as they can. I've had to wait around for a union guy to clean up a mess in a workcell for about 30 minutes because the operator couldn't do it..."it wasn't his job". I didn't dare do it myself being non-union... but could have just for the sake of things running efficiently. the union system has been abused way too much for far too long.

its nearly impossible to get a union employee fired. come into work drunk a few times.. he gets probation. they probably love it. As non-salaried if I did most anything these guys do, I'd be canned the first or second time for sure.

I imagine there are those sorts of people in any company. At the place I work, it seems that having union and having wages and benefits that are very competitive tends to help my company attract and retain really top notch people.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

I don't consider myself a "victim" of anything, I disliked how I was treated in poorly run places and got the skills need to get and keep
a position in a well run, properly staffed union facility.

Again, it doesn't matter if you do or not - you were spewing the victim mentality BS that unions do to keep followers.

You don't need a union to have a well run and properly staffed facility. Also the lack of a union doesn't mean people get treated poorly or that the place is poorly run. It seems you are placing way too much of your faith in the union as if they are the reason your new place is better.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

The organization I'm employed by is the finest company I've ever worked for, the wages and benefits are good enough to attract top and keep talent, my co-workers are some of the best people on the planet. I'm very happy I chose to vote with my feet and seek employment at this facility which has been wise enough to become a union shop.

Also, the union is the collective voice of it's membership, I attend meetings, read and study proposals and I vote on issues.
I don't sit back lazy and "let" anybody do anything "for" me.

i see you've guzzled the koolaid so whatever you say... "wise enough to become a union shop" keep paying someone else part of your wages for your precious perception of "protection" if you must...

 

[Geekbabe]

i see you've guzzled the koolaid so whatever you say... "wise enough to become a union shop" keep paying someone else part of your wages for your precious perception of "protection" if you must...

You know, when the workers at my organization chose to organize, the company had a choice, they could choose to hire all new workers or to accept the union, they chose to accept the union.

I am very happy at my job and consider the return I get from the modest dues I pay to be well worth it.

 

[Mr.IncrediblyBored]

You know, when the workers at my organization chose to organize, the company had a choice, they could choose to hire all new workers or to accept the union, they chose to accept the union.

I am very happy at my job and consider the return I get from the modest dues I pay to be well worth it.

But they don't really have that option do they? Companies can't fire all the workers and start anew. Most companies would go bankrupt long before that happened. In the case of medical facilities patients could die. So the employer has no choice whatsoever. That is extortion.

 

[EricMartello]

Unions used to protect workers from abuse; now it is generally union workers abusing their employer. They are a large reason American companies outsource just to be competitive...then the workers who are unemployed because they expect too much and offer too little have the nerve to whine about it like they are somehow entitled to being paid $65K per year plus pension & medical benefits just to turn a few screws and pass it off as "skilled labor".

I'm not saying all union workers are lazy, dumb and unmotivated people but it wouldn't be inaccurate to say a large percentage of them fit that description.

In case you blue collar heroes didn't notice, we're no longer in the industrial age - we've moved into the technology age and we are GLOBALLY competitive. This has the unfortunate effect of being a bad thing for generally stupid people who struggled to graduate high school and who are surprised there are other places on this planet besides muurrka...but if you're not willing to make yourself useful to your country and your employer, the job you could have had is going to be given to some guy whose name is Khangbar Swardalhi who is willing to work for less and do more. Cry about it all you want but you only have yourself to blame in the end...

 

[Brainonska511]

They are a large reason American companies outsource just to be competitive

Hardly. American companies outsource to places like China, Vietnam, Mexico (etc) because they can pay pennies compared to American workers, union and nonunion alike, since they are essentially 3rd world countries. As shitty as the wages seem, it's better than the alternative and part of the industrialization process. American workers can't compete with people that are just moving above the world poverty line.

 

[coreyb]

From my experience unions help the good guy 1 time out of 10 and the bad guys 9 times out of ten. Lazy people love it and hard workers hate it.

fuck my union and the people that abuse it!

 

[Red Dawn]

Unions used to protect workers from abuse; now it is generally union workers abusing their employer. They are a large reason American companies outsource just to be competitive...then the workers who are unemployed because they expect too much and offer too little have the nerve to whine about it like they are somehow entitled to being paid $65K per year plus pension & medical benefits just to turn a few screws and pass it off as "skilled labor".

I'm not saying all union workers are lazy, dumb and unmotivated people but it wouldn't be inaccurate to say a large percentage of them fit that description.

In case you blue collar heroes didn't notice, we're no longer in the industrial age - we've moved into the technology age and we are GLOBALLY competitive. This has the unfortunate effect of being a bad thing for generally stupid people who struggled to graduate high school and who are surprised there are other places on this planet besides muurrka...but if you're not willing to make yourself useful to your country and your employer, the job you could have had is going to be given to some guy whose name is Khangbar Swardalhi who is willing to work for less and do more. Cry about it all you want but you only have yourself to blame in the end...

It's not just Blue Collar Jobs getting outsourced. I also don't understand why you think because you went to College you automatically think you are worth more than some guy that didn't. The vast Majority of those with White Collar Jobs end up just being overweight Paper Shuffling Middle Management who sits in a cubicle all day scared of losing their jobs as they get older to some snot nosed kid fresh out of College who's so desperate for work that they'll work for much less because they are up to their eyeballs in debt from School loans .

 

[Red Dawn]

From my experience unions help the good guy 1 time out of 10 and the bad guys 9 times out of ten. Lazy people love it and hard workers hate it.

fuck my union and the people that abuse it!

Some Unions suck just like some companies suck and it's a shame your Union is like that but to generalize all Unions and their members because of the bad experiences you've had is ignorant at best.

 

[BarkingGhostar]

I love my Union without it we would get fucked over by management like all other nonunion shops.

This is BS, and I've been craft and management in the same large company. Getting f-ed over isn't mutually exclusive to either side. Both craft/non-management and management have gotten f-ed and have f-ed others.

I have seen plenty of worthless union-represented employees with more and less craft time, and worthless managers both above and below me. Let's face it, it is a human thing.

 

[Geekbabe]

But they don't really have that option do they? Companies can't fire all the workers and start anew. Most companies would go bankrupt long before that happened. In the case of medical facilities patients could die. So the employer has no choice whatsoever. That is extortion.

Do you think a non-union shop goes union in 2 weeks? Companies who've decided that they can get cheaper help and who won't go
union start that process pretty quickly. There are also laws in place to protect patients regarding licensed care providers and strikes.

 

[StageLeft]

I love my Union without it we would get fucked over by management like all other nonunion shops.

If that makes you sleep better, by all means keep believing it.

 

[squirrel dog]

I have sat through many grievance meetings,on BOTH sides of the table . Usually we would shoot the shit for a few minutes,then discuss the matter at hand.In this instance I feel if you said you didn't know you were at fault,and you won't do that again,that they would drop the grievance and show it resolved.If they(the union) want to take it to the next level,so be it.In my union(CWA) grievances would escalate to the third or district level,then if need be go to an arbitrator to be resolved.Later in my career as a Manager I never had one go past My Boss who was the third level manager.Any way what you've got seems like not much to me.

 

[dartworth]

Unions used to protect workers from abuse; now it is generally union workers abusing their employer. They are a large reason American companies outsource just to be competitive...then the workers who are unemployed because they expect too much and offer too little have the nerve to whine about it like they are somehow entitled to being paid $65K per year plus pension & medical benefits just to turn a few screws and pass it off as "skilled labor".

I'm not saying all union workers are lazy, dumb and unmotivated people but it wouldn't be inaccurate to say a large percentage of them fit that description.

In case you blue collar heroes didn't notice, we're no longer in the industrial age - we've moved into the technology age and we are GLOBALLY competitive. This has the unfortunate effect of being a bad thing for generally stupid people who struggled to graduate high school and who are surprised there are other places on this planet besides muurrka...but if you're not willing to make yourself useful to your country and your employer, the job you could have had is going to be given to some guy whose name is Khangbar Swardalhi who is willing to work for less and do more. Cry about it all you want but you only have yourself to blame in the end...

:\...lol

amazing

 

[sao123]

Unions used to protect workers from abuse; now it is generally union workers abusing their employer. They are a large reason American companies outsource just to be competitive...then the workers who are unemployed because they expect too much and offer too little have the nerve to whine about it like they are somehow entitled to being paid $65K per year plus pension & medical benefits just to turn a few screws and pass it off as "skilled labor".

I'm not saying all union workers are lazy, dumb and unmotivated people but it wouldn't be inaccurate to say a large percentage of them fit that description.

In case you blue collar heroes didn't notice, we're no longer in the industrial age - we've moved into the technology age and we are GLOBALLY competitive. This has the unfortunate effect of being a bad thing for generally stupid people who struggled to graduate high school and who are surprised there are other places on this planet besides muurrka...but if you're not willing to make yourself useful to your country and your employer, the job you could have had is going to be given to some guy whose name is Khangbar Swardalhi who is willing to work for less and do more. Cry about it all you want but you only have yourself to blame in the end...

I cant wait till all the middle and upper execs start to get replaced by lower cost "globalized" alternatives too... wont it be super when they get a taste of their own bitter medicine.

 

[actuarial]

It's not Blue Collar Jobs getting outsourced.

Manufacturing jobs aren't outsourced?

 

[Red Dawn]

Manufacturing jobs aren't outsourced?

Oops forgot to include "just". I will go back an edit, thanks.

 

[thepd7]

Union threads always bring up the memory of an article I once read in Houston about a local union that built a new administration building using non-union workers. Their reasoning: non-union workers were cheaper.

Texas is not a union state. Link?

Your detest towards a valid CBA, which is a contract, is terrible. Your sarcasm does nothing for this thread.

People in the union have jobs with specific duties. If they do not do their job write them up. That option is always there.

I have never dealth with a union, my "detest" is simply the knowledge that things are running just fine here in Texas without unions, whereas multiple people on this forum have the attitude that management would screw them 10 ways from Sunday without a union. This may have been the case 30 years ago, it is not today.

Many of you are young, you grew to adulthood and took jobs at which you were handed things like "job descriptions". That list along with a lot of other things such as requiring employers to pay you for overtime
came to be as result in large part from the activity of unions.

The job description is like a clearly laid out set if expectations and tasks, the rules of the road at work. Should there be room to occasionally do a thing or two not listed in that job description? sure
but once that starts it's a slippery slope. Remember that "no good deed goes unpunished"

The job description exists to prevent exploitation of workers, it also benefits the employer in cases where a person is not performing their work as it provides the basis for the documentation trail via which a worker can be counseled, disciplined or fired.

When I am asked by a superior to do something that is not within my job description, I will comply quietly and not cause issue within ear shot of patients, however I will file a grivance, this is the established process thru which worker rights are protected, it is also the process via which employers look at and modify job descriptions when they need to. If you need your worker's to do more and those extra tasks involve additional skill sets, then you need to rewrite that job description and bring it to the bargaining table.

I don't get paid overtime, I get money and great benefits from a company that actually cares about me, they get me working my ass off to make sure we do well. Unfortunately not all companies are like this.

Chicago Loses 2nd Major Trade Show In A Week

http://cbs2chicago.com/business/plastics.conventioon.leaving.2.1317642.html

Daley Says McCormick Place, Unions Must Reduce Trade Show Costs To Avoid Further Losses

=========================================

$2000 to plug a refrigerator in an outlet is insane

The total bill came to $240,000 for the convention.

It was supposed to be $40,000

Now 100 of those Union Electricians are on the unemployment line.

Yep, seems like a lot of unions are eliminating themselves.

So you'll never buy or rent a House, ownhouse, Condo or APT and will not accept the services of a Police Officer, Fireman, EMT or Nurse? Not to mention use any products shipped by rail or foreign products unloaded at Sea Ports?

I do all of these things without union help or intervention.

Overall point re-emphasized: just because something was good and necessary a long time ago doesn't mean it has a place today.

 

[Linflas]

Texas is not a union state. Link?

http://www.nrtw.org/c/txrtwlaw.htm

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Chicago Loses 2nd Major Trade Show In A Week



http://cbs2chicago.com/business/plastics.conventioon.leaving.2.1317642.html

Daley Says McCormick Place, Unions Must Reduce Trade Show Costs To Avoid Further Losses

=========================================

$2000 to plug a refrigerator in an outlet is insane

The total bill came to $240,000 for the convention.

It was supposed to be $40,000

Now 100 of those Union Electricians are on the unemployment line.

lol, I've been to shows and conventions there. At one trade show we set a booth up at we got yelled at for bringing our own stuff into the place. We were supposed to call down and have their union dock workers come unload our displays from our vehicles. What a joke. Also the electrical hookup prices were stupid so we just called the people who were having the booth next to us and said we'd split the cost if we could plug a power strip into their dropcord. Oh, and we used to have a display that had a candy dispenser(automated with gates, monitoring, PLC, HMI, etc) but their food service union put a stop to that and said they were the only ones who could offer/distribute food there. That place is a joke.

 

[Scouzer]

I'm a white collar union worker and I don't think I can ever go back. I do my job as well as the next guy and I most certainly do not abuse the system. However, it's *really* nice being able to have a disagreement or argument with management without concerning myself with my career prospects. I can defend myself anytime I need to.

Examples:

- Bad managers denying leave requests with really no reason. They can't do this in a union environment.
- Bad managers trying to make stupid ass schedules (I'm a shift worker). Stuff like working 4-midnight then back again to work at 8am-4pm then back to work at midnight-8am the same day... can't happen, but would happen if we weren't unionized
- No split shifts. My job really lends itself to a bad manager trying to force us to work split shifts, but it's not going to happen when we're unionized. Would you want to work 7am-11am then come back 4pm-8pm every day?
- I get paid when I work overtime. I can't tell you how many people I know who are legally required to get paid overtime but are not paid overtime. It's illegal, but what are you going to do about it? To pursue options through the legal system will cost you your job. At best you'll keep your job and forever have zero career prospects at that company.
- The company is perfectly fine financially yet they keep trying to eliminate our pension. This likely will never happen, but it certainly would if we were not unionized.
- My union dues are $1000/yr and fully tax deductible.

Misconceptions:

- I don't get breaks most of the time. I just wanted to point this out because everyone seems to think unionized workers are always on break.
- I take my job seriously, and so does everyone I know
- I've never used a sick/casual day in my 3.5 years here... and my coworkers have used very few. The highest guy I know of has used less than 5 a year.
- I've never filed a grievance
- My pay is not out of line, and our raises are very small, often less than inflation.

 

[dabuddha]

Bah. Well I asked to have my light replaced in my office (bulb's burnt out) and that was over 3.5 weeks ago. 10 days ago, I got an email saying my request has been entered into the system. I sent an email out 2 days ago asking if they had come around to fix it (I thought perhaps they had changed the wrong bulb) and got a response back saying that they had not gotten to it yet and will process it shortly. All for a freaking light. I'd change it myself but I'm sure the facilities union would get pissed off.

 

[Mr.IncrediblyBored]

Do you think a non-union shop goes union in 2 weeks? Companies who've decided that they can get cheaper help and who won't go
union start that process pretty quickly. There are also laws in place to protect patients regarding licensed care providers and strikes.

Honestly I don't know how quickly a shop becomes unionized. But I'd imagine it's a lot quicker than a company can fire, hire, and retrain a new staff. That's good to know about the laws regarding licensed care providers. It makes sense, but I guess I never thought about it. Thanks.

I remember watching my father strike on more than one occassion at his work. Eventually the company folded. A competing company bought the remnants, closed the facility, and moved production south. Speaking with him about it years later he said sales was having trouble finding new contracts. They couldn't compete on price. And this isn't even against overseas competitors. Most were still producing in the States.

I watched a close friend get fired from his job when work slowed because he was one of the "last hired". Despite, according to him, being able to cut and load pallets faster than anybody else on his shift.

My brother is in a union shop too, and some of the things he says make me shake my head in disbelief. This isn't about union workers being lazy or unskilled, because you're going to have good and bad workers anywhere. The issue is unions hurt the companies ability to compete.