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So how's that gun prohibition working for you Brits?

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xj0hnx

Diamond Member
Dec 18, 2007
9,262
3
76
It's ok...
I'm not going to take your blankey away from you, Linus
You must be wearing lollerskates.

DivideBYZero said:
That's why we're talking about guns. Any decently smart pre-schooler could tell you this.
Actually no, we are talking about how the banning of guns in the UK hasn't done anything to stop violent crime, it's ok though, just a couple more years and you get to start pre-k.
 

DivideBYZero

Lifer
May 18, 2001
24,117
2
0
You must be wearing lollerskates.



Actually no, we are talking about how the banning of guns in the UK hasn't done anything to stop violent crime, it's ok though, just a couple more years and you get to start pre-k.
*sigh*

The question:
So how's that gun prohibition working for you Brits?

The Answer:

Very nicely, thanks for asking

Gun Homicides in UK per year: 38
Gun Homicide in US per year: ~11000

/Thread
 

spacejamz

Lifer
Mar 31, 2003
10,406
734
126
*sigh*

The question:
So how's that gun prohibition working for you Brits?

The Answer:

Very nicely, thanks for asking

Gun Homicides in UK per year: 38
Gun Homicide in US per year: ~11000

/Thread
Shame we can't ask any of stabbing death victims whose numbers have skyrocketed after the gun ban went into effect. What is the UK going to ban after knives? baseball bats??? tire irons?

It's also a bigger shame that you cannot connect the dots on how these two statistics are related. You just keep yelling "guns are bad" and sticking your head in the sand about the the other violent crimes that exist.

You are prime example of the of the saying, "For those who understand, no explanation is needed. For those who do not understand, no explanation is possible"
 

irishScott

Lifer
Oct 10, 2006
21,568
2
0
*sigh*

The question:
So how's that gun prohibition working for you Brits?

The Answer:

Very nicely, thanks for asking

Gun Homicides in UK per year: 38
Gun Homicide in US per year: ~11000

/Thread
Would it help if I clarified that the question in the OP was sarcastic?
 

JD50

Lifer
Sep 4, 2005
11,119
498
126
*sigh*

The question:
So how's that gun prohibition working for you Brits?

The Answer:

Very nicely, thanks for asking

Gun Homicides in UK per year: 38
Gun Homicide in US per year: ~11000

/Thread
Are you retarded? Do you think victims care if they were killed by a gun or a knife? How can you have such a difficult time understanding the point that everyone is trying to make?

Maybe you seriously are mentally handicapped and you think the point of gun control is to reduce gun crimes and increase crimes committed with other weapons. So I guess in that case it is working out very nicely for you.
 

nick1985

Lifer
Dec 29, 2002
27,158
6
81
Are you retarded? Do you think victims care if they were killed by a gun or a knife? How can you have such a difficult time understanding the point that everyone is trying to make?

Maybe you seriously are mentally handicapped and you think the point of gun control is to reduce gun crimes and increase crimes committed with other weapons. So I guess in that case it is working out very nicely for you.
I think he is just trolling at this point.
 

Daverino

Platinum Member
Mar 15, 2007
2,004
1
0
Crime, overall, is correlated to the economy, not to gun ownership. Crime goes up as the economy goes down. Been like that since the beginning of time.

But the fact still remains, regardless of all the percentages being thrown around here that the per capita murder rate in the UK is 1.49 per 100,000 and the rate in the US is 5.4 per 100,000. A 5% rise in the murder rate in the UK may not be good, but understand that it would require a 350% increase just to tie the US.
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
68,483
3,596
126
I think he is just trolling at this point.
He's Trolling? Of course Victims don't care how they are Murdered, but the Knife stat would only matter if Britain's Murder Rate was equivalent to the US. It isn't even close.

There's always going to be Murder. The best a Society can hope for is to minimize Murder. Most of Europe has clearly done a much better Job at achieving that than the US.
 

Zargon

Lifer
Nov 3, 2009
12,240
2
76
He's Trolling? Of course Victims don't care how they are Murdered, but the Knife stat would only matter if Britain's Murder Rate was equivalent to the US. It isn't even close.

There's always going to be Murder. The best a Society can hope for is to minimize Murder. Most of Europe has clearly done a much better Job at achieving that than the US.
I don't know.

dumb thugs gang shooting each other desont exactly harm society, more like cleaning up the toilet.....
 

irishScott

Lifer
Oct 10, 2006
21,568
2
0
He's Trolling? Of course Victims don't care how they are Murdered, but the Knife stat would only matter if Britain's Murder Rate was equivalent to the US. It isn't even close.

There's always going to be Murder. The best a Society can hope for is to minimize Murder. Most of Europe has clearly done a much better Job at achieving that than the US.
There's also a shitload of cultural and geographic factors that contribute to our respective rates, and gun prohibition has next to nothing to do with it. Europe in many ways isn't the shining beacon of enlightenment you seem to think it is.

On a philosophical note, I fail to see why my right to defend myself should be taken away by criminals; because that's all strict gun control is. Criminals scaring easily frightened people into surrendering to others with power. So many western people have such an entitlement personality they lack the will to even reasonably take care of themselves. A disarmed society is a weak society. It is a society that admits that the average citizen is so thug-like, so untrustworthy, so lacking in common sense and resourcefulness that they are more a danger to good people than bad when in possession of a firearm. That weakness disgusts me.

I and many gun owners like me are no different when carrying than when not. I carry a gun like I carry my wallet (where legal). Most times I don't even think about it. But if I open-carried, plenty of people would judge me as a threat regardless. That shouldn't be the case.

I'll end with a tired old quote: They who give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. -Benjamin Franklin
 
Last edited:

daishi5

Golden Member
Feb 17, 2005
1,196
0
71
He's Trolling? Of course Victims don't care how they are Murdered, but the Knife stat would only matter if Britain's Murder Rate was equivalent to the US. It isn't even close.

There's always going to be Murder. The best a Society can hope for is to minimize Murder. Most of Europe has clearly done a much better Job at achieving that than the US.
The point is that Britain passed a gun ban to reduce their murder rate, yet has experienced an increased murder rate.

Myself, I believe that a small portion of the increase in crime is due to their gun laws. But, I am almost certain that the majority of the problem in Britain is the changing demographics of their society, and the strain it is causing.
 

nick1985

Lifer
Dec 29, 2002
27,158
6
81
The point is that Britain passed a gun ban to reduce their murder rate, yet has experienced an increased murder rate.
I know that. You know that. Hell, even Sandorski knows that. He is just spinning trying to compare apples to oranges by comparing US crime to British crime. But when its all said and done and he is done trying to spin, the fact remains. Their murder rate increased after the handgun ban.
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
68,483
3,596
126
There's also a shitload of cultural and geographic factors that contribute to our respective rates, and gun prohibition has next to nothing to do with it. Europe in many ways isn't the shining beacon of enlightenment you seem to think it is.

On a philosophical note, I fail to see why my right to defend myself should be taken away by criminals; because that's all strict gun control is. Criminals scaring easily frightened people into surrendering to others with power. So many western people have such an entitlement personality they lack the will to even reasonably take care of themselves. A disarmed society is a weak society. It is a society that admits that the average citizen is so thug-like, so untrustworthy, so lacking in common sense and resourcefulness that they are more a danger to good people than bad when in possession of a firearm. That weakness disgusts me.

I and many gun owners like me are no different when carrying than when not. I carry a gun like I carry my wallet (where legal). Most times I don't even think about it. But if I open-carried, plenty of people would judge me as a threat regardless. That shouldn't be the case.

I'll end with a tired old quote: They who give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. -Benjamin Franklin
The Stats do not back this reasoning. At all.
 

daishi5

Golden Member
Feb 17, 2005
1,196
0
71
There's also a shitload of cultural and geographic factors that contribute to our respective rates. Europe in many ways isn't the shining beacon of enlightenment you seem to think it is.

On a philosophical note, I fail to see why my right to defend myself should be taken away by criminals; because that's all strict gun control is. Criminals scaring easily frightened people into surrendering to others with power. So many western people have such an entitlement personality they lack the will to even reasonably take care of themselves. A disarmed society is a weak society. It is a society that admits that the average citizen is so thug-like, so untrustworthy, so lacking in common sense and resourcefulness that they are more a danger to good people than bad when in possession of a firearm. That weakness disgusts me.

I and many gun owners like me are no different when carrying than when not. I carry a gun like I carry my wallet (where legal). Most times I don't even think about it. But if I open-carried, plenty of people would judge me as a threat regardless. That shouldn't be the case.

I'll end with a tired old quote: They who give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. -Benjamin Franklin
Gun control started in two primary ways, that I know of, in history. The pistol became a very controlled weapon after it was used by assassins to kill nobility in Europe. Any person willing to die for his cause could shoot a noble before his guards could stop him, and this scared the nobility. A rifle at that time could not shoot accurately at any decent range, and it could not be hidden to get into range due to its size. Swords or other weapons required fighting through guards, and very few assassins would have the skills required. They restricted the weapon to protect themselves from those they deemed inferior. English law from the revolutionary period demonstrates this, protestants were guaranteed the right to arms, because they were considered a trusted group, but only they had that right. Strangely, as the discrimination has been removed, they did not grant the freedoms to non-protestants, but took them from the protestants to restrict everyone equally.

In America, the gun control movement started to take away the guns from Freedmen. The Black man was seen as not-trustworthy, and inherently prone to evil acts. The southern states considered them to be less human, and thus passed many laws to take away their rights. To protect themselves, the states passed laws that made it illegal for blacks to own weapons. (A strange irony considering the recent 14th ruling) One of the primary reasons for passing the 14th amendment was to protect the Freedmen's right to bear arms in defense of their family because white militias were literally roving the countryside killing them in their homes. One of the first cases tried under the 14th involved a white state militia disarming a band of freedmen, who had surrendered, and executing them. The court determined that the black people did not have a right to bear arms that was protected by the 14th, thus the state did not violate their 14th amendment rights. I have no doubt that had a group of white men surrendered and been executed, the right to bear arms would have been an individual right the entire time, the only reason it was a collective right then was because those who were deprived were black. That judgement left the door open for the states to continue to deprive Freedmen of arms.

As we have progressed as a society, somehow, the argument that the black man is not trustworthy, and we should not let him have guns has been shifted to a nebulous "other people" that take the place of the black man in the argument. I have listened to Paul Helmke of the Brady Group speak. When he gave a speech on why there should be no campus concealed carry, you could have replaced the words "college student" with the words "black people" and it would have sounded like it came from a KKK pamphlet. Most of the gun control rhetoric in public culture boils down to this same type of argument. If you listen to them, almost all gun control arguments try to paint some other "group" as needing to be controlled. They continually play upon peoples fear of others who are not like them.

Now, some people have well reasoned cases for supporting gun control, but they take too long to use in today's soundbite media.
 

Nebor

Lifer
Jun 24, 2003
29,582
11
76
The Stats do not back this reasoning. At all.
It was a philosophical argument, so I don't really see how stats are involved. I believe his point was that he would rather tolerate a society with 50x the number of gun deaths in exchange for his own ability to protect himself, and for the strength that breeds in a society.

I agree. There could be a school shooting every week and it wouldn't cause me to waver in my belief that an armed populace is integral to the American way of life, and freedom itself.
 

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