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So how's that gun prohibition working for you Brits?

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woolfe9999

Diamond Member
Mar 28, 2005
7,164
0
0
To be fair I'm the only person presenting valid recent data and not claiming random causation or correlating x to y with no basis in fact.

I posted originally about the pointlessness of this clearly loaded troll post, but you cannot deny that less that 40 gun homicides vs 60m people is very impressive. To indulge you, per capita the numbers will be:

UK Gun Homicide 1 per 1578947
US Gun Homicide 1 per 26548

98.4% lower. I couldn't care less if some NRA member thinks I'm oppressed. Oppression for me is fear that drives you to live a life surrounded by so much threat you need to do everything armed with deadly force.
Apart from the issue of normalizing per capita, would you agree that the overall homicide rate, not the gun homicide rate, is what's important here? Certainly, if people don't have access to guns and they have a motive to kill, they may adopt other methods?

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cr...ers-per-capita

Actual homicide rate is 3:1 USA/UK.

The numbers you cite are only "impressive" to the extent that the low gun homicides aren't compensated for by higher numbers of non-gun homicides. Yet they do at least partially compensate.

Your stat does suggest one thing: that gun control actually does "work" to some extent in keeping guns away from people. But that point has limited value in this context since it doesn't matter if you kill someone with a gun or a knife. They're still dead either way.

- wolf
 

nobodyknows

Diamond Member
Sep 28, 2008
5,474
0
0
Mostly unattended property crime, a gun wouldn't help you.

Next.
And the gun homicide rate in the US is several thousand percent higher than the UK.

Gun Homicides in UK per year: 38
Gun Homicide in US per year: ~11000

/Thread
So who cares? I would rather be able to protect myself and my family then worry about a bunch of criminals shooting each other over their drug dealing "turf".

/Thread you dumb ass. I'd tell you to get real, but you wouldn't have a clue how to do that.
 

pcgeek11

Lifer
Jun 12, 2005
18,364
2,219
126
1) Daily Telegraph
2) Date of article and link
3) Hardly explains the mega disparity of <100 vs >10000.

Gun Homicides in UK per year: 38
Gun Homicide in US per year: ~11000

/Thread
Your numbers mean nothing without a comparative figure.

38 Gun Homicides per XXXX in the UK.

11000 Gun Homicides per XXXX in the US.

Just for example If the UK had 5 per 10 and the US had 50 per 1000 the UK would have a 50% homicide rate where the US would be negligible.
 

DivideBYZero

Lifer
May 18, 2001
24,117
2
0
Apart from the issue of normalizing per capita, would you agree that the overall homicide rate, not the gun homicide rate, is what's important here? Certainly, if people don't have access to guns and they have a motive to kill, they may adopt other methods?

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cr...ers-per-capita

Actual homicide rate is 3:1 USA/UK.

The numbers you cite are only "impressive" to the extent that the low gun homicides aren't compensated for by higher numbers of non-gun homicides. Yet they do at least partially compensate.

Your stat does suggest one thing: that gun control actually does "work" to some extent in keeping guns away from people. But that point has limited value in this context since it doesn't matter if you kill someone with a gun or a knife. They're still dead either way.

- wolf
In a wider context, yes, the overall Homicide rate is what matters, but the thread title relates solely to guns and gun control and the OP links to a recent shooting incident, so that is what I'm debating.
 

Zebo

Elite Member
Jul 29, 2001
39,386
3
81
LOL @ all the stats. Talk about taking eyes off the ball. Killing someone is a cultural problem not what tool you use to do it. Whether machetes in Rwanda or .38 Special in NYC it's invaribly caused by hate, insecurity, needing money etc. I think UK has done a better job to address those issues. Sweden better yet. That's where focus should be IMO.
 

DivideBYZero

Lifer
May 18, 2001
24,117
2
0
So who cares? I would rather be able to protect myself and my family then worry about a bunch of criminals shooting each other over their drug dealing "turf".

/Thread you dumb ass. I'd tell you to get real, but you wouldn't have a clue how to do that.
Whenever gun-nuts are cornered with facts they "don't care". :rolleyes:

If you live in an area overrun with drug dealers shooting each other then rather than arming yourself, and becoming no better than they are, you could:

- Call the Police and report suspicious activity and drug dealing
- Lobby your local representative
- engage with Police Authorities via local community groups
- Improve your economic situation and move

Or you could buy a gun and sit with your easy chair facing the front door every night with your piece on your lap, waiting in fear for someone to enter you home. Good luck in a shoot out situation, by the way. I hear they don't always end up like they do in the movies.
 

xj0hnx

Diamond Member
Dec 18, 2007
9,262
3
76
Is that it? :awe: I call you out and you suddenly couldn't "careless"? :D

Couldn't spell, more like. Self inflicted gun lobotomy? :hmm:
BWAHAHAHA you haven't "called" anyone out, all you did was try to insult, instafail.

Whenever gun-nuts are cornered with facts they "don't care". :rolleyes:
Your facts are not relevant. The UK is not the United States, we fixed that ...with guns hehe. On a more modern note, we here see that the places that have strict gun control are the epicenters of gun violence.
 

ShawnD1

Lifer
May 24, 2003
15,987
2
81
Double kill anal
:sneaky:


Britain is so fucked that it's almost comical.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1196941/The-violent-country-Europe-Britain-worse-South-Africa-U-S.html
(2009)

Britain's violent crime record is worse than any other country in the European union, it has been revealed.
Official crime figures show the UK also has a worse rate for all types of violence than the U.S. and even South Africa - widely considered one of the world's most dangerous countries.

http://reason.com/archives/2002/11/01/gun-controls-twisted-outcome
Gun Control's Twisted Outcome
Restricting firearms has helped make England more crime-ridden than the U.S.

Joyce Lee Malcolm from the November 2002 issue

On a June evening two years ago, Dan Rather made many stiff British upper lips quiver by reporting that England had a crime problem and that, apart from murder, "theirs is worse than ours." The response was swift and sharp. "Have a Nice Daydream," The Mirror, a London daily, shot back, reporting: "Britain reacted with fury and disbelief last night to claims by American newsmen that crime and violence are worse here than in the US." But sandwiched between the article's battery of official denials -- "totally misleading," "a huge over-simplification," "astounding and outrageous" -- and a compilation of lurid crimes from "the wild west culture on the other side of the Atlantic where every other car is carrying a gun," The Mirror conceded that the CBS anchorman was correct. Except for murder and rape, it admitted, "Britain has overtaken the US for all major crimes."
And the US isn't exactly a safe place. UK is just that bad. Really really bad.



If you live in an area overrun with drug dealers shooting each other then rather than arming yourself, and becoming no better than they are, you could:

- Call the Police and report suspicious activity and drug dealing
LOL

Man, have you ever tried calling the cops? A few years ago I was working the night shift at McDonalds in a location that is open 24 hours per day. Every weekend there are huge swarms of drunks that get food after the bar tells them to go home. A few times, drunk people would get into arguments and minor fights. We would call the cops every time this happened, and they never fucking show up. Never. Police are fucking assholes. We kept bear spray in the staff room because we know that the police will not come to help us if things get out of hand. If police won't even come arrest drunk people fighting at McDonalds, what are the odds the police will show up in a bad neighborhood to stop gang activity? 0&#37;?
 
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xj0hnx

Diamond Member
Dec 18, 2007
9,262
3
76
:sneaky:


Britain is so fucked that it's almost comical.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1196941/The-violent-country-Europe-Britain-worse-South-Africa-U-S.html



http://reason.com/archives/2002/11/01/gun-controls-twisted-outcome


And the US isn't exactly a safe place. UK is just that bad. Really really bad.
But, but there's more gun crimes in the US, there's more gun crimes in the US, there's more gun crimes in the US, there's more gun crimes in the US ...
 

ShawnD1

Lifer
May 24, 2003
15,987
2
81
But, but there's more gun crimes in the US, there's more gun crimes in the US, there's more gun crimes in the US, there's more gun crimes in the US ...
Liberals have fantasies about being stabbed to death. Thank god it wasn't a gun! :awe:
 

Orignal Earl

Diamond Member
Oct 27, 2005
8,059
55
86
Whenever gun-nuts are cornered with facts they "don't care". :rolleyes:
Face it, half the posters in this thread would never be able to leave their bunkers if they couldn't bring their gun with them. They would never sleep if they didn't have their pistola under their pillow with the shotty backup under the bed.

A quarter of America would stop functioning with gun bans
www.gunfacts.info
 
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xj0hnx

Diamond Member
Dec 18, 2007
9,262
3
76
Face it, half the posters in this thread would never be able to leave their bunkers if they couldn't bring their gun with them. They would never sleep if they didn't have their pistola under their pillow with the shotty backup under the bed.

A quarter of America would stop functioning with gun bans
Do you fruitcakes practice this in front of a mirror, or does it just come naturally?
 

nobodyknows

Diamond Member
Sep 28, 2008
5,474
0
0
Face it, half the posters in this thread would never be able to leave their bunkers if they couldn't bring their gun with them. They would never sleep if they didn't have their pistola under their pillow with the shotty backup under the bed.

A quarter of America would stop functioning with gun bans
www.gunfacts.info
Stay in Canada and don't worry about us and keep your stupid stereotypes up there with you. We Americans know how to protect ourselves, it's what we do best. We do it so well that morons like you feel so safe that you think OUR guns should be taken away.

Gun grabbers are a joke. Dividebyzero stats don't mean crap. We have the 2nd amendment to protect our rights to own guns so too bad, so sad. If the big cities suck so bad then move, or do something to change the conditions that causes the crime/theft/murder. Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. it's just that simple.
 

nobodyknows

Diamond Member
Sep 28, 2008
5,474
0
0
It's ok...
I'm not going to take your blankey away from you, Linus
You couldn't if you tried. They say the pen is mightier then the sword, but when they come to try and take my guns they better bring something more potent then a pen!! :D
 

Orignal Earl

Diamond Member
Oct 27, 2005
8,059
55
86
Stay in Canada and don't worry about us and keep your stupid stereotypes up there with you. We Americans know how to protect ourselves, it's what we do best. We do it so well that morons like you feel so safe that you think OUR guns should be taken away.

Gun grabbers are a joke. Dividebyzero stats don't mean crap. We have the 2nd amendment to protect our rights to own guns so too bad, so sad. If the big cities suck so bad then move, or do something to change the conditions that causes the crime/theft/murder. Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. it's just that simple.
Just look at all the crap your making up about me. I think it's best you should have your gun with you at all times. Whatever it takes to make you comfortable with life
Personally, I probably have access to alot more guns then you do.
Maybe your problem is paranoia
 

DivideBYZero

Lifer
May 18, 2001
24,117
2
0
:sneaky:


Britain is so fucked that it's almost comical.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1196941/The-violent-country-Europe-Britain-worse-South-Africa-U-S.html



http://reason.com/archives/2002/11/01/gun-controls-twisted-outcome


And the US isn't exactly a safe place. UK is just that bad. Really really bad.




LOL

Man, have you ever tried calling the cops? A few years ago I was working the night shift at McDonalds in a location that is open 24 hours per day. Every weekend there are huge swarms of drunks that get food after the bar tells them to go home. A few times, drunk people would get into arguments and minor fights. We would call the cops every time this happened, and they never fucking show up. Never. Police are fucking assholes. We kept bear spray in the staff room because we know that the police will not come to help us if things get out of hand. If police won't even come arrest drunk people fighting at McDonalds, what are the odds the police will show up in a bad neighborhood to stop gang activity? 0&#37;?
Can you read? I'll assume not as you clearly haven't read the OP, as this thread is about gun control. If you want to discuss crime in general in the UK, make another thread. Deflecting the argument away from the utter and complete failure of the US's liberal gun laws vs the UK's strict laws is just disingenuous when this is the item for discussion.

EDIT: As for your links:

Link 1) Daily Mail. OMG LOL, it's not actually a credible news source. Go find the studies used to make up that horse shit and get back to me.
Link 2) It's 9 year old data. LMAO! I've linked to current reports. You can try and do the same if you're serious, but like I said, use a new thread.
 
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irishScott

Lifer
Oct 10, 2006
21,568
2
0
Just look at all the crap your making up about me. I think it's best you should have your gun with you at all times. Whatever it takes to make you comfortable with life
Personally, I probably have access to alot more guns then you do.
Maybe your problem is paranoia
Or maybe we just like our rights. I doubt there are many here that could conclusively prove that they have an immediate physical or psychological "need" for a gun, but just because a right is not continuously exercised does not make it invalid. I have yet to exercise my right to a fair and speedy trial by a jury of my peers. Given that I have no foreseeable intention of committing a crime, by what appears to be your logic I might as well have that right taken away from me as well. :rolleyes:

In much the same way I might be in a as-of-yet unforeseen situation where I might want a gun. I've already been in a couple where luck saved me just as much (if not more so) than good judgment. The recent supreme court ruling underscores it. A gun is vital to one's ability to defend oneself.
 

irishScott

Lifer
Oct 10, 2006
21,568
2
0
Can you read? I'll assume not as you clearly haven't read the OP, as this thread is about gun control. If you want to discuss crime in general in the UK, make another thread. Deflecting the argument away from the utter and complete failure of the US's liberal gun laws vs the UK's strict laws is just disingenuous when this is the item for discussion.
Gun laws influence more than just gun crime, as any decently smart 3rd grader could tell you. You have such tunnel vision on the word "gun" and it's negative stereotype it's hilarious.
 

nobodyknows

Diamond Member
Sep 28, 2008
5,474
0
0
Just look at all the crap your making up about me. I think it's best you should have your gun with you at all times. Whatever it takes to make you comfortable with life
Personally, I probably have access to alot more guns then you do.
Maybe your problem is paranoia
All the crap I am making up? Can you be specific on what "crap" you're refering to??

And I doubt if you have "access" to more guns then me, but so what if you do? I could care less.
 

skyking

Lifer
Nov 21, 2001
19,708
1,445
136
LOL @ all the stats. Talk about taking eyes off the ball. Killing someone is a cultural problem not what tool you use to do it. Whether machetes in Rwanda or .38 Special in NYC it's invaribly caused by hate, insecurity, needing money etc. I think UK has done a better job to address those issues. Sweden better yet. That's where focus should be IMO.
Stop talking sense!
This is an emotional issue!
D::D
 

nobodyknows

Diamond Member
Sep 28, 2008
5,474
0
0
How much less could you care?
Oh please take your trolling someplace else. The only one who thinks you have made any good points is you. We have this thing called the second amendment and I for one plan of holding the goverment to their word on it.

All self-rightous idiots like you do is convince me to vote for a conservative. You guys have shown yourselves to be every bit as bad (even worse if you had the power) as the Neocons were. Obama and his ultra-liberal supporters have, IMO, screwed themselves.

But keep up the great partisian hackery. Maybe you can chase so more law abiding voters away.
 

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