1. Hi Average Joe, care to explain how hardware and software is depended on each other?
2. same data will to send to both GPUs.
1. Hi Average Joe, care to explain how hardware and software is depended on each other?
2. same data will to send to both GPUs.
Josh, didn't you just said:
"Since then you have been arguing how hardware and software are not dependent upon eachother when in fact they are"
please stop being 2 faced.
we were talking about OS software (aka driver), not bios software which is embeded into hardware.
Keysplayr
Elite Member
- Jan 16, 2003
- 21,211
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Ok. Go and put together a computer. Do not load a stitch of software on it. All you need is bios's right? Go have yourself a good time with that. Hardware is useless without software, and software is useless without the hardware to run it on.
I really don't believe this.
You're the one who claimed that the 7950GX2 is a single card software and hardware wise, then claimed on another thread that it is basically an SLI setup.
If you would actually finish someones quotes in which the whole main topic of the sentence is expressed, you will see what I was agreeing to:
They are two seperate variables that coexist only with eachother, and are bound by eachother.
Really? Ever flashed an Xbox? A friend of mine back in highschool had 8 of them laying around. Just so happened his stupid dog knocked over the Xbox in the middle of its flash and the thing became useless. A perfect case of what you get when you have literally only hardware, something worthless.
Besides,
If that was indeed what you were talking about, "SOFTWARE HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH HARDWARE!!!!" then why are you even talking about the bios firmware? If your main objective is to prove that hardware can function correctly and as it was designed for without the "(aka driver)" then you still have yet to do that because running a 7950GX2 in safe mode isn't something that Nvidia thought everyone was really wanting.
perhaps a full quote would help..
"No. hardware is seperate from software. hardware DOES NOT "depend" on software to operate ( unless you are talking about bios). Hardware operate with its own programming in its bios, which is completely unrelated to how operating system feeds in data. it doesn't matter how many data streams the OS feeds in (as in SLI or windows scheduler), all hardware does is receiving data , process them, then output. "
software and hardware work seperately.
the fact it uses SLI driver does not affect 7950gx2 (physically) being single card.
BFG10K, redbox, and I were never arguing that it is physically a single card. We were arguing that it is two cards when seeing how the driver uses it.
(Physically) BFG10K said that it is one card in terms of hardware (aka in terms of how the card is made "physically")
"In terms of software" which you have already said is the "(aka driver)", it is two because of the necessity for SLI to be activated.
And you said:
Now you are agreeing with him?
Wreckage
Banned
- Jul 1, 2005
- 5,529
- 0
- 0
My point is , it doesn't matter how software sees the hardware, the hardware's physical property determine what it is.
By quoting it here:
Careful though Wreckage, according to beggerking, the driver doesnt' "see" anything so he might try to lecture you too. Even with a true SLI setup (i.e two 7900GT's) the driver is still seeing two GPU's. SLI is the interface that allows the balancing to exist between them. It is a dual card feature that is supported with a supposed single card. If what beggerking is saying is true, if "SOFTWARE HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH HARDWARE!!!!" then this card also should do just fine without SLI activated in the driver. But it doesn't, in fact, it has more restrictions than the 7950GX2 because it must have a Gigabyte nF4 chipset where as the 7950GX2 doesn't even need an nF4 chipset.
So now we have hardware that overrules the software? I thought you claimed that hardware can be fooled into doing anything by the software? You were on the path to explaining to redbox how to do HT on an A64:
yet you haven't told him how exactly to accomplish that yet.
1. SLI software sees "data" path.
2. SLI software does the seperation of data to be forwarded to each GPU.
3. the card will run "fine" technically, but each GPU will operate on same data. SLI software "sends" the correct data to each GPU to achieve the performance improvement.
WelshBloke
Lifer
- Jan 12, 2005
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I said: software can be fooled to think a hardware existed. ie Hyperthreading, software is being fooled into think 2 CPUs exists.
well, if he learns some programming, he might be able to create an emulator that does that. But he will not get any performance improvement because A64 doesn't have the ability to put aside stalled instructions.
WelshBloke
Lifer
- Jan 12, 2005
- 32,686
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RichUK
Lifer
- Feb 14, 2005
- 10,341
- 678
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Back to the burger analogy.
Now a Burger king ?Bacon Double Cheese Burger? has two burgers in it stacked on top of each other, where as McDonalds ?Big Mac? has two burgers but a piece of bun between the two burgers, yet both come in a single package and are refered to as a single burger.
Are these both classed as one burger, or is say the Big Mac classed as two burgers due to the fact it has a bit of bun in the middle, much like the SLI bridge.
As the Burger king Bacon Double Cheeseburger doesn?t use a bit of bun between the burgers (SLI Bridge) I would conclude it is one Burger (one graphics card)
Bacon Double Cheese burger = One Burger = 7900 GTX.
McDonalds Big Mac = Two Burger = 7950GX2
/thread
Now a Burger king ?Bacon Double Cheese Burger? has two burgers in it stacked on top of each other, where as McDonalds ?Big Mac? has two burgers but a piece of bun between the two burgers, yet both come in a single package and are refered to as a single burger.
Are these both classed as one burger, or is say the Big Mac classed as two burgers due to the fact it has a bit of bun in the middle, much like the SLI bridge.
As the Burger king Bacon Double Cheeseburger doesn?t use a bit of bun between the burgers (SLI Bridge) I would conclude it is one Burger (one graphics card)
Bacon Double Cheese burger = One Burger = 7900 GTX.
McDonalds Big Mac = Two Burger = 7950GX2
/thread
schneiderguy
Lifer
- Jun 26, 2006
- 10,801
- 91
- 91
Throughout this thread, you have said things that contradict your own statements:
Yet you keep arguing that it is one.
and
And both of those statements contradict what you said here:
There isn't physically 3 GPU's on the 7950, so why would "NV tweak SLI to see 3 GPUs"?
Really? So what good is the 7950 withou the proper SLI software?
Then why do you ever install drivers?
In that case, do HDR+AA in Oblivion on the 7950. If the hardware's specs don't matter, then that must be possible.
If the A64 "doesn't have the ability to put aside stalled instructions" like you say, how would any emulator fix that?
Yet you keep arguing that it is one.
and
And both of those statements contradict what you said here:
There isn't physically 3 GPU's on the 7950, so why would "NV tweak SLI to see 3 GPUs"?
Really? So what good is the 7950 withou the proper SLI software?
Then why do you ever install drivers?
In that case, do HDR+AA in Oblivion on the 7950. If the hardware's specs don't matter, then that must be possible.
If the A64 "doesn't have the ability to put aside stalled instructions" like you say, how would any emulator fix that?
how do these statements contradict each other?
it doesn't matter how many GPUs SLI software sees, 7950gx2 is still physically a single card.
You keep missing the context of the original discussion. You stated that nVidia's marketing of the 7950GX2 as "a single slot solution" is a marketing gimmick. I disagreed because I think the distinctions you made to support this statement aren't relevant to the people it is being marketed to. But instead of defending your distinctions, you simply repeated them, so I just as simply referred you back to my original post:
It's not a gimmick. The GX2 works with non-SLI system boards. It fits in a single PCI-E slot. When you hold it in your hand, it's one distinct unit. So from the end user's point of view it is a single card solution, and that's why it is marketed as such...
As you can see, from the beginning of our discussion we've simply been debating whether or not it's a marketing gimmick. Now, if you mistakenly believe that we've been debating whether the 7950GX2 is objectively one or two cards, frankly that's your problem. Reread my previous posts; I never so much as expressed a desire to expand our discussion in that direction.
It's not a red herring. You introduced the statement to which I originally disagreed, and the basis for my disagreement was the distinctions which you chose to support your statement. Yet you've done nothing toward a valid response. What you have done is hurl insults, put words in my mouth, and mischaracterize my position.
In the real world I'm only responsible for what I've actually said. I've only been arguing with you about one specific statement you made with regards to how the card is marketed. If it makes you feel better, you can switch the context of the debate by pretending we've been talking about whether the 7950GX2 is one card or two, but the content of my posts reveals their true context.
Well, that's nice and everything, but I didn't make that claim; you keep putting words in my mouth. Now, what I did say is that the second PCI-E slot - which I've been calling a "slot" rather than a connector because I don't see the point of the distinction in our discussion - is not relevant to the people the 7950GX2 is being marketed to. Only enthusiasts care whether it uses a PCI-E switch or a proprietary protocol.
EDIT: Deleted this remark. Sometimes I'm just too blunt.If you plan to continue this illogical and fallicious style of debate, please tell me now so I can ignore you.
Personally I don't think there is a right or wrong answer,but this debate ranks right up there with the taste's great vs less filling debate.:beer:
rather than initiate another personal attack(again), why don't you just answer the question above: how did I contradict myself?
Why do I have to hold your hand through everything?
This statement,
contradicts this one:
And this statement,
along with this statement,
contradicts this statement
because there isn't physically 3 GPU's on the 7950, so why would "NV tweak SLI to see 3 GPUs"? In fact, I thought it couldn't "see" GPU's? I thought you said all it sees is data?
Also, this statement, one that is probably the most relevant:
again contradicts this statement:
This:
When he said this:
only to have you later say this:
is evidence that you are flip-flopping almost everytime you post.
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