So, all you "doom and gloomers", when will times be "good" again?

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seemingly random

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 2007
5,281
0
0
Originally posted by: Jiggz
Originally posted by: Socio
Originally posted by: beer
Topic Title: So, all you "doom and gloomers", when will times be "good" again?

Actually I think the good times are gone for good; the new crop of Democrats poised to take over will usher in an era of socialism. We will literally turn in to something like the old Soviet Union. We will grow weak, reliant on a government that cannot afford it, illegal immigration will continue undaunted, citizenship will get handed out like candy, and our military budget will go to pot.

In the meantime Europe will become Islamified, they will set their sights on one of the last bastions of freedom the Soviet states of America. However due to the foundations laid out by Democrats like Obama we will roll over and cater to every whim leaders of Islam direct our way until they become the leaders of the Former US themselves.

When this happens man will no longer know freedom just death or enslavement to the Muslim?s god.

I just hope when this happens they will at least remember how valiantly a President named G.W. Bush tried to stop it from happening.

Not so quick cowboy! Last time we rebounded it was because of new technology called IT or DOT.Com. What I foresee with this high energy prices is another shot in the arm for the US for we will again come up with a new technology that defeats the need for oil or at least minimize it. I'll say around 2010!
Anything to back this claim up with - other than an exclamation point?
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
72,545
6,144
126
Originally posted by: LegendKiller
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Originally posted by: LegendKiller
Originally posted by: SleepWalkerX
Originally posted by: jpeyton
Lenders flooded the market with easy loans.

Where/how did these easy loans come about?

Poor regulatory oversight.

What is your answer to it? The best brains in the country are going into making money in markets, the best are, in my opinion, far ahead of the regulators. How do we go? More regulators, better ones? How cal rules keep up. Regulations are passed by politicians who don't know anything.

Go read up on FAS 140, FIN 46, CFTC oversight, capital calculations, chinese walls between *ALL* trading and advisory and analytics. The list goes on an on and doesn't even require many regulators. It just requires Congress to be a bit more forward thinking and a lot less pro-business and "bought off". Then guess how I would change regulatory oversight.

Good, but hindsight is 20 20. I think the regulators are always catching up.
 

Capitalizt

Banned
Nov 28, 2004
1,513
0
0
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Originally posted by: LegendKiller
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
We are doing great. In this supposedly horrible time we're living in we're still growing. America is the land of can do. We have had an excess of speculation. Speculation is great but too much is bad. We got into a situation where the risks were hidden and passed on. Of course I know nothing so take all this with a grain of salt. Sometimes I just get this urge to post something. I guess I'm just different from you.

Post one opinion where people said we are "doing great". Polarization is a great way to undermine another's point, except it's a cheap cop-out.

Here is a post where a person says we are doing great:

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
We are doing great. In this supposedly horrible time we're living in we're still growing. America is the land of can do. We have had an excess of speculation. Speculation is great but too much is bad. We got into a situation where the risks were hidden and passed on. Of course I know nothing so take all this with a grain of salt. Sometimes I just get this urge to post something. I guess I'm just different from you.

my God, I love you moonbeam. ;)

 

Capitalizt

Banned
Nov 28, 2004
1,513
0
0
Originally posted by: Craig234
Originally posted by: babylon5
Oil won't go back to the low price we are used to. Developing countries like China/India will increase demand for oil.

And USA keep on borrowing. I guess things will still be "good" as long as we don't have to pay back the money we borrow.

I don't see much alternative to our eventually having high inflation to make paying it back easier, and so I'm interested in how to US inflation-proof investments...


Sounds like you're finally coming around Craig.. Too bad you lefties diss gold and people like Ron Paul whenever you get the chance :)
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
72,545
6,144
126
Originally posted by: Capitalizt
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Originally posted by: LegendKiller
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
We are doing great. In this supposedly horrible time we're living in we're still growing. America is the land of can do. We have had an excess of speculation. Speculation is great but too much is bad. We got into a situation where the risks were hidden and passed on. Of course I know nothing so take all this with a grain of salt. Sometimes I just get this urge to post something. I guess I'm just different from you.

Post one opinion where people said we are "doing great". Polarization is a great way to undermine another's point, except it's a cheap cop-out.

Here is a post where a person says we are doing great:

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
We are doing great. In this supposedly horrible time we're living in we're still growing. America is the land of can do. We have had an excess of speculation. Speculation is great but too much is bad. We got into a situation where the risks were hidden and passed on. Of course I know nothing so take all this with a grain of salt. Sometimes I just get this urge to post something. I guess I'm just different from you.

my God, I love you moonbeam. ;)

I didn't have much choice since I didn't know what the hell he was on about.
 

LegendKiller

Lifer
Mar 5, 2001
18,256
68
86
Originally posted by: SleepWalkerX
Originally posted by: LegendKiller
Originally posted by: SleepWalkerX
Originally posted by: jpeyton
Lenders flooded the market with easy loans.

Where/how did these easy loans come about?

Poor regulatory oversight.

But I don't understand. If you say poor regulatory oversight then we've always had poor regulatory oversight. How come we had this bubble now and not when we had poor regulatory oversight, say, ten years ago?

Look at my post above, try to understand the regulations that were changed or enacted, then come back to me.
 

LegendKiller

Lifer
Mar 5, 2001
18,256
68
86
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Originally posted by: LegendKiller
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Originally posted by: LegendKiller
Originally posted by: SleepWalkerX
Originally posted by: jpeyton
Lenders flooded the market with easy loans.

Where/how did these easy loans come about?

Poor regulatory oversight.

What is your answer to it? The best brains in the country are going into making money in markets, the best are, in my opinion, far ahead of the regulators. How do we go? More regulators, better ones? How cal rules keep up. Regulations are passed by politicians who don't know anything.

Go read up on FAS 140, FIN 46, CFTC oversight, capital calculations, chinese walls between *ALL* trading and advisory and analytics. The list goes on an on and doesn't even require many regulators. It just requires Congress to be a bit more forward thinking and a lot less pro-business and "bought off". Then guess how I would change regulatory oversight.

Good, but hindsight is 20 20. I think the regulators are always catching up.

Had those regulations never been enacted, or changed, then there'd not be a "catch up" phase. You're forgetting that we already had plenty of regulations in place to actually *STOP* this bullshit from happening. Yet, somehow, in the last 10 years, all of them were removed, weakened, replaced, or ignored, many in the wake of Enron by the Repuglican Congress.
 

LegendKiller

Lifer
Mar 5, 2001
18,256
68
86
Originally posted by: Capitalizt
Originally posted by: Craig234
Originally posted by: babylon5
Oil won't go back to the low price we are used to. Developing countries like China/India will increase demand for oil.

And USA keep on borrowing. I guess things will still be "good" as long as we don't have to pay back the money we borrow.

I don't see much alternative to our eventually having high inflation to make paying it back easier, and so I'm interested in how to US inflation-proof investments...


Sounds like you're finally coming around Craig.. Too bad you lefties diss gold and people like Ron Paul whenever you get the chance :)

Lol, only "lefties" diss paul? Please, don't be a git. Everybody disses paul because his ideas are stupid. Gold doesn't solve anything, we had plenty of debt under the gold system, much of it wasn't borne by the Federal government though. Ever read the stories of how the US states were the biggest deadbeat debtors in the world during the 1800s?
 

dawp

Lifer
Jul 2, 2005
11,345
2,705
136
Originally posted by: LegendKiller
Originally posted by: Capitalizt
Originally posted by: Craig234
Originally posted by: babylon5
Oil won't go back to the low price we are used to. Developing countries like China/India will increase demand for oil.

And USA keep on borrowing. I guess things will still be "good" as long as we don't have to pay back the money we borrow.

I don't see much alternative to our eventually having high inflation to make paying it back easier, and so I'm interested in how to US inflation-proof investments...


Sounds like you're finally coming around Craig.. Too bad you lefties diss gold and people like Ron Paul whenever you get the chance :)

Lol, only "lefties" diss paul? Please, don't be a git. Everybody disses paul because his ideas are stupid. Gold doesn't solve anything, we had plenty of debt under the gold system, much of it wasn't borne by the Federal government though. Ever read the stories of how the US states were the biggest deadbeat debtors in the world during the 1800s?

correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't we on the gold standard during the crash of '29? And wasn't the excessive credit that caused the crash in the 1st place?
 

NoStateofMind

Diamond Member
Oct 14, 2005
9,711
6
76
Originally posted by: LegendKiller
Originally posted by: PC Surgeon
Originally posted by: LegendKiller
Originally posted by: PC Surgeon
Originally posted by: LegendKiller
Originally posted by: PC Surgeon
Have you ever watched the history channel about the fall of Rome and wondered what it must of been like? You're living in it now.

LOL. I am sure Ron Paul would save us.

LOL I'm sure Obama/McCain/Hillary/yourgovernmentsocialistshill will save us.

Because "free markets" and libertopianism putting us back into the 1800's would work so damn well. Only an intellectual midget would think that free markets exist anywhere outside of a vacuum.

Hey, if you want to shovel shit at the local stable, be my guest. I prefer modern conveniences and what's still the best financial system in the world. Not to mention I like to keep our country competitive.

Things do need to change, such as paying off our debt. Yet your silly comparisons to the roman empire are ridiculous.

There is no intention of paying off debt only parlaying it to a future date. There is only intention of increasing the size & scope of government. If you don't see it coming thats fine, I'm not here to teach you the similarities between the Roman Empire and the American Empire. The truth is we are on the downward slope of this once great nation. It will take a miracle for us to come out of it. The signs are already there. Over expansion of government, troops strewn out over the globe, perpetually mounting debt and the 800lbs guerrilla "entitlements" hanging like a guillotine over the stretched out neck of our country. I hope you stay well during the troubling times ahead.

Because having legions that take months to travel from one place to another is the same as troops that can be redeployed in a day. That's how stupid your comparison is, I don't even need to cover the remainder.

You don't look deep enough.

It's why you utterly fail at convincing anybody but your 5%'ers.

I don't need yours or anyone else's approval.
 

NoStateofMind

Diamond Member
Oct 14, 2005
9,711
6
76
Originally posted by: seemingly random
Originally posted by: PC Surgeon
Have you ever watched the history channel about the fall of Rome and wondered what it must of been like? You're living in it now.
I've wondered the same thing. Don't claim to have more that a cursory knowledge of this period. In fact, what are the dates, beginning and end, of the roman empire? Does one include the republic years?

Specific years and dates I do not know. I know their army was outstretched and their finances were atrocious.

Anyway, I get the feeling that it declined several times and then 'recovered' after a makeover. Religion was used quite often but only to keep people off balance. Sports analogies aren't always useful but I'd say we're in the 2nd or 3rd inning. I've heard several reasons for the final end: 1) unmitigated corruption, 2) inability to change with the times. Currently, 1) applies in spades with iraq but not so sure about 2)

Falling and recovering I'm not sure of but I do know the Roman empire lasted over 1000yrs. The similarities are more with the economic and military than anything else.

I believe in the truism that history repeats itself with the caveat that it rarely repeats itself exactly the same.

I agree with that whole heartedly. My 8th grade teacher had this banner across the top of the room that we had to say every day. "We study our past so we can predict our future."
 

NoStateofMind

Diamond Member
Oct 14, 2005
9,711
6
76
Originally posted by: Socio
Originally posted by: beer
Topic Title: So, all you "doom and gloomers", when will times be "good" again?

Actually I think the good times are gone for good; the new crop of Democrats poised to take over will usher in an era of socialism. We will literally turn in to something like the old Soviet Union. We will grow weak, reliant on a government that cannot afford it, illegal immigration will continue undaunted, citizenship will get handed out like candy, and our military budget will go to pot.

In the meantime Europe will become Islamified, they will set their sights on one of the last bastions of freedom the Soviet states of America. However due to the foundations laid out by Democrats like Obama we will roll over and cater to every whim leaders of Islam direct our way until they become the leaders of the Former US themselves.

When this happens man will no longer know freedom just death or enslavement to the Muslim?s god.

I just hope when this happens they will at least remember how valiantly a President named G.W. Bush tried to stop it from happening.

No more acid for you.
 

NoStateofMind

Diamond Member
Oct 14, 2005
9,711
6
76
Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Lol, only "lefties" diss paul? Please, don't be a git. Everybody disses paul because his ideas are stupid. Gold doesn't solve anything, we had plenty of debt under the gold system, much of it wasn't borne by the Federal government though. Ever read the stories of how the US states were the biggest deadbeat debtors in the world during the 1800s?

Yeah, cause mr Obama is a man with integrity, honesty and never goes back on anything he says.....
 

LegendKiller

Lifer
Mar 5, 2001
18,256
68
86
Originally posted by: PC Surgeon
Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Lol, only "lefties" diss paul? Please, don't be a git. Everybody disses paul because his ideas are stupid. Gold doesn't solve anything, we had plenty of debt under the gold system, much of it wasn't borne by the Federal government though. Ever read the stories of how the US states were the biggest deadbeat debtors in the world during the 1800s?

Yeah, cause mr Obama is a man with integrity, honesty and never goes back on anything he says.....

did I ever say that?
 

LegendKiller

Lifer
Mar 5, 2001
18,256
68
86
Originally posted by: dawp
Originally posted by: LegendKiller
Originally posted by: Capitalizt
Originally posted by: Craig234
Originally posted by: babylon5
Oil won't go back to the low price we are used to. Developing countries like China/India will increase demand for oil.

And USA keep on borrowing. I guess things will still be "good" as long as we don't have to pay back the money we borrow.

I don't see much alternative to our eventually having high inflation to make paying it back easier, and so I'm interested in how to US inflation-proof investments...


Sounds like you're finally coming around Craig.. Too bad you lefties diss gold and people like Ron Paul whenever you get the chance :)

Lol, only "lefties" diss paul? Please, don't be a git. Everybody disses paul because his ideas are stupid. Gold doesn't solve anything, we had plenty of debt under the gold system, much of it wasn't borne by the Federal government though. Ever read the stories of how the US states were the biggest deadbeat debtors in the world during the 1800s?

correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't we on the gold standard during the crash of '29? And wasn't the excessive credit that caused the crash in the 1st place?

It's ironic that the crash was actually precipitated by us trying to prop up the UK in their launching of their new gold standard, since it couldn't support itself, as with all gold standards eventually.
 

LegendKiller

Lifer
Mar 5, 2001
18,256
68
86
Originally posted by: PC Surgeon

You don't look deep enough.

It's why you utterly fail at convincing anybody but your 5%'ers.

I don't need yours or anyone else's approval.

I look plenty deep at your analysis, or lack thereof.

No, you don't, which is why you'll be an angsty teenager the rest of your life.
 

LegendKiller

Lifer
Mar 5, 2001
18,256
68
86
Originally posted by: PC Surgeon
Specific years and dates I do not know. I know their army was outstretched and their finances were atrocious.

Falling and recovering I'm not sure of but I do know the Roman empire lasted over 1000yrs. The similarities are more with the economic and military than anything else.


I agree with that whole heartedly. My 8th grade teacher had this banner across the top of the room that we had to say every day. "We study our past so we can predict our future."


So yet again, you claim such a close comparison, yet know nothing of the details, nor of anything that really contrasts what you are saying?

Typical RPB, you make grandiose claims yet know nothing about background.

The similarities are economic and military? That a military can redploy in days, not months, is not similar. That an economy is based upon a narrow band of goods and fewer services, is not comparable. This country is a hell of a lot stronger than Rome was even at its peak.

Anybody with true knowledge of statistics and reality knows that history is an imperfect predictor of the future. Historians love to trump their importance yet gloss over the fact that they tinge history with their own hue of partiality, a history teacher is even worse, anybody who studied anthropology would know this. History is a guide and one which requires contextual analysis and future application, not prediction.

Again, another of your failures in not actually understanding the nature of what you speak and speaking like you do.
 

NoStateofMind

Diamond Member
Oct 14, 2005
9,711
6
76
Originally posted by: LegendKiller
Originally posted by: PC Surgeon
Specific years and dates I do not know. I know their army was outstretched and their finances were atrocious.

Falling and recovering I'm not sure of but I do know the Roman empire lasted over 1000yrs. The similarities are more with the economic and military than anything else.


I agree with that whole heartedly. My 8th grade teacher had this banner across the top of the room that we had to say every day. "We study our past so we can predict our future."


So yet again, you claim such a close comparison, yet know nothing of the details, nor of anything that really contrasts what you are saying?

Typical RPB, you make grandiose claims yet know nothing about background.

The similarities are economic and military? That a military can redploy in days, not months, is not similar. That an economy is based upon a narrow band of goods and fewer services, is not comparable. This country is a hell of a lot stronger than Rome was even at its peak.

Anybody with true knowledge of statistics and reality knows that history is an imperfect predictor of the future. Historians love to trump their importance yet gloss over the fact that they tinge history with their own hue of partiality, a history teacher is even worse, anybody who studied anthropology would know this. History is a guide and one which requires contextual analysis and future application, not prediction.

Again, another of your failures in not actually understanding the nature of what you speak and speaking like you do.

I didn't read what you wrote. Know why? Cause I simply do not care what you say. Thats it. Move on.
 

NoStateofMind

Diamond Member
Oct 14, 2005
9,711
6
76
Originally posted by: LegendKiller
Originally posted by: PC Surgeon

You don't look deep enough.

It's why you utterly fail at convincing anybody but your 5%'ers.

I don't need yours or anyone else's approval.

I look plenty deep at your analysis, or lack thereof.

No, you don't, which is why you'll be an angsty teenager the rest of your life.

So I am now supposed to take offense? LOL
 

NoStateofMind

Diamond Member
Oct 14, 2005
9,711
6
76
Originally posted by: LegendKiller
Originally posted by: PC Surgeon
Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Lol, only "lefties" diss paul? Please, don't be a git. Everybody disses paul because his ideas are stupid. Gold doesn't solve anything, we had plenty of debt under the gold system, much of it wasn't borne by the Federal government though. Ever read the stories of how the US states were the biggest deadbeat debtors in the world during the 1800s?

Yeah, cause mr Obama is a man with integrity, honesty and never goes back on anything he says.....

did I ever say that?

You don't have to its in your heart.
 

LegendKiller

Lifer
Mar 5, 2001
18,256
68
86
Originally posted by: PC Surgeon
Originally posted by: LegendKiller
Originally posted by: PC Surgeon
Specific years and dates I do not know. I know their army was outstretched and their finances were atrocious.

Falling and recovering I'm not sure of but I do know the Roman empire lasted over 1000yrs. The similarities are more with the economic and military than anything else.


I agree with that whole heartedly. My 8th grade teacher had this banner across the top of the room that we had to say every day. "We study our past so we can predict our future."


So yet again, you claim such a close comparison, yet know nothing of the details, nor of anything that really contrasts what you are saying?

Typical RPB, you make grandiose claims yet know nothing about background.

The similarities are economic and military? That a military can redploy in days, not months, is not similar. That an economy is based upon a narrow band of goods and fewer services, is not comparable. This country is a hell of a lot stronger than Rome was even at its peak.

Anybody with true knowledge of statistics and reality knows that history is an imperfect predictor of the future. Historians love to trump their importance yet gloss over the fact that they tinge history with their own hue of partiality, a history teacher is even worse, anybody who studied anthropology would know this. History is a guide and one which requires contextual analysis and future application, not prediction.

Again, another of your failures in not actually understanding the nature of what you speak and speaking like you do.

I didn't read what you wrote. Know why? Cause I simply do not care what you say. Thats it. Move on.

It's not for you.
 

LegendKiller

Lifer
Mar 5, 2001
18,256
68
86
Originally posted by: PC Surgeon
Originally posted by: LegendKiller
Originally posted by: PC Surgeon
Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Lol, only "lefties" diss paul? Please, don't be a git. Everybody disses paul because his ideas are stupid. Gold doesn't solve anything, we had plenty of debt under the gold system, much of it wasn't borne by the Federal government though. Ever read the stories of how the US states were the biggest deadbeat debtors in the world during the 1800s?

Yeah, cause mr Obama is a man with integrity, honesty and never goes back on anything he says.....

did I ever say that?

You don't have to its in your heart.

lol, yes. I am fooled by Obama into thinking that he's completely truthful and without other intentions.

OK there sparky. I work around some pretty duplicitous people in an area known for double dealing, shady agreements, and backstabbing. I do pretty damn well inside the area without participating in such actions, yet I can't figure a politician out.

Whatever floats your boat.
 

Robor

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
16,979
0
76
Originally posted by: PC Surgeon
Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Lol, only "lefties" diss paul? Please, don't be a git. Everybody disses paul because his ideas are stupid. Gold doesn't solve anything, we had plenty of debt under the gold system, much of it wasn't borne by the Federal government though. Ever read the stories of how the US states were the biggest deadbeat debtors in the world during the 1800s?

Yeah, cause mr Obama is a man with integrity, honesty and never goes back on anything he says.....

1. No one has perfect integrity
2. No one is completely honest 100% of the time
3. To not 'go back' on things is stubborn and ignorant
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
72,545
6,144
126
Originally posted by: Robor
Originally posted by: PC Surgeon
Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Lol, only "lefties" diss paul? Please, don't be a git. Everybody disses paul because his ideas are stupid. Gold doesn't solve anything, we had plenty of debt under the gold system, much of it wasn't borne by the Federal government though. Ever read the stories of how the US states were the biggest deadbeat debtors in the world during the 1800s?

Yeah, cause mr Obama is a man with integrity, honesty and never goes back on anything he says.....

1. No one has perfect integrity
2. No one is completely honest 100% of the time
3. To not 'go back' on things is stubborn and ignorant

Who says so, people without perfect integrity? I don't buy it and even if it is true it's the wrong attitude.

Consider what was just said above for example: "OK there sparky. I work around some pretty duplicitous people in an area known for double dealing, shady agreements, and backstabbing. I do pretty damn well inside the area without participating in such actions...."

Some say virtue is its only reward but that's a huge one in my opinion. The choice to act with integrity isn't one one can partially make, it seems to me. Integrity is the integration of integrity, no?
 

NoStateofMind

Diamond Member
Oct 14, 2005
9,711
6
76
Originally posted by: Robor

1. No one has perfect integrity
2. No one is completely honest 100% of the time
3. To not 'go back' on things is stubborn and ignorant

Instead of turning this into YAOT, I'll leave it here.