Smoke yourself to death.

[Bluefront]

He, he, he. It doesn't sound like moonie smokes .....I guarantee Bluefront does not smoke. In this matter the only difference I can see is moonie has some pity for smokers.....I do not.

You know if smoking did not affect me, and it does every time I'm around a smoker....it wouldn't matter so much. I grew up with a smoker in the house...didn't like the smoke then, hate it now.

 

[Yo Ma Ma]

Well it all boils down to you can really only be responsible for your own actions, as much as one might offer advice to a person, you can't walk the walk for them.

People smoke for a variety of reasons, perhaps one reason for some people is mental defect, as clearly he has looked death in the face and still chooses to smoke.

BTW I found quitting smoking easier than losing weight as you can just give them up 100%, you don't have to follow guidelines of smoking in moderation as one does with food consumption.

 

[Gaard]

Quitting smoking is a b!tch...but only for a few days. After that it's no big deal. I liken it to a compound bow. When you pull it back, it's kinda difficult for a while, then at a certain point it becomes a piece of cake. I have to think that those who either refuse to (or can't) quit do so because of one of two reasons.
1) They enjoy smoking so much that the pleasure they receive from smoking outweighs any risk to their health that it could cause.
or
2)They try to quit but can't seem to get past the first few difficult days.

Based on his embarrassment and comments, I think your coworker falls into the latter category. I would just like to say that if you are in this category...you want to quit but just can't...keep trying. Never give up. If you break down and light up...so what? Smoke it down and start quitting again. No big deal. Eventually you'll get passed the difficult stage and never smoke again.

If you fall into the former category...well that's your choice. I may not understand it nor agree with it, and I may think you're a nitwit, but who am I to say you can't smoke if you want to?

I find it strange that my government makes me wear my helmet and makes me wear my seatbelt, but doesn't give a rats ass if I smoke.

 

[damiano]

Originally posted by: Pabster
Yep, non-smokers just don't understand. Quitting the habit isn't like avoiding that 2nd slice of cheesecake at dinner... and some of us just plain enjoy smoking

Amen

 

[Yo Ma Ma]

I find it strange that my government makes me wear my helmet and makes me wear my seatbelt, but doesn't give a rats ass if I smoke.

Quiet, don't give 'em any ideas.

 

[Moonbeam]

I like what you said, Gaard, especially the 'no big deal part, if you fail try again. It's in part because quitting is so difficult and produces so many failures that people often give up for fear of failing again. This is how the addict uses our feelings of inferiority to make us give up. You tried once; you know you can't quit; quit beating yourself over the head; be nice to yourself; have a cigarette.

You're wrong, Bluefront, that I pity smokers. I don't pity them. I am just like them, a potential addict who doesn't smoke for this or that reason of lucky fate. I see no reason to pity smokers, they are no worse and no better than me. They are me. To condemn someone for anything is to condemn the part of yourself that is just like them. It just depends on how well you know yourself, I think; how willing you are to see the faults you see in others in yourself. We are all the same.

The reason that I focus on the addict in a discussion about smoking is that temporarily, all I care about is the person who smokes, how to reach him, how to help him see his enemy. You condemn him and that just makes people defensive and hostile. I think that nobody wants to smoke. Everybody wants to quit, but they are caught in a web of delusion. it's the addict that makes you proud to smoke, to risk death, to be a man, to be cool. The addict tells you everything and anything it takes to get that cigarette lit and the nicotine into the veins. That's all their is; every smokers brilliantly laid out philosophy as to why he smokes nothing more than Bull Sh!t told to a sleeper by the addict. That's why the world simply changes when the addict is killed by starvation. Nobody smokes who kills the addict. There is no pleasure in smoking. It's all about satisfying the addict, making him stop tormenting you to smoke.

The way to win a war is to know your enemy. The reason that people continue to smoke is that they believe the reasons they smoke are right and are their own opinion. They are wrong and they are delusions caused by a separate being, the addict. He wants his nicotine and he doesn't care what he does to you to get it.

I don't care how many people quit, how hard or easy it was. I want to tell the hard core smoker that quitting smoking is a bit like dying. You have to let go of the egotistical self image the addict has created for you from whence you draw a pride in smoking. It's like dying because you have to admit you've been deceived. But you're not bad and your not a fool or stupid or anything else. You have just been played by a powerful enemy, powerful that is as long as that nicotine continues to flow. Cut that off and he starts to fade away. Without nicotine the addict dies, but you don't.

So it's not about good bad, pleasure stupidity, not about any of the emotional baggage people lay on smoking or the smoker. It's all about cranking down the nicotine till the addict dies. Then cigarettes are just paper tubes filled with a shredded leaf, a curiosity of no consequence to you at all.

 

[Bluefront]

What ......"We are all the same". "I am a potential addict". What a big crock, made worse by a long-winded essay based on psyco-babble. "I love the addict because he is me". Bahh...

Moonie....you can do better than that.

 

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: Bluefront
Think about this so-called addiction.....

Its not a so-called addiction, its a full blown addiction.

t's not crack,

No, its not.

it's not morphine,

No, its not. Its niccotine. In fact, its quite addictive. It is one of the most addictive drugs out there.

it's a dumb cigarette, packaged real neat, sold in drug stores to little old ladies and kids.

And anyone else that wants to buy them.

Moonbeam wants you to think after a few weeks on the stuff, you're hooked for life,

Bingo.

and the rest of us non-smokers should pity you for your horrible addiction. Crap.....

Not at all. I dont think any smoker should get pity for an addiction they chose. But I also think non-smokers should mind their own business and leave smokers alone.

Well I don't have any pity for stupidity.

Stupidity should be tolerated, ignorance should not. The stupid dont have a choice in my opinion.

Years ago before the whole truth about smoking was revealed, people continued to smoke out of habit, not fully knowing the dangers. Not true anymore....you smoke today, you're a fool...or worse.

Ill accept that.

If I were a liberal, I would probably follow moonbeam's advice.....say you're not at fault for smoking, it's the addiction to blame,

While I will not say I am not at fault for what I chose, the addiction has made it *very* hard to make a better choise at this time in my life. Get a severe physical addiction and tell us how hard it is to quit.

maybe the kids you bummed around with who taught you, maybe your parents who smoked and left the things lying around when you were young. Crap again.....

In my case it isnt anyone else's fault.

Millions of people have thrown down their cigarettes, never to go back.....some addiction.

Look up medical information on it. Niccotine is *highly* addictive. Believe it or not. You can be a ignorant child and ignore reason and medical information if you want, but I dont recommend it. Ignorance is the worst "disease" out there today.

I understand you feel strongly about this with your losses, and I truely am sorry you had to go through these things. But smokers are people too. We deserve the right to kill ourselves as slowly as we want. We know the consequences, we have accepted them. Get over it and do something productive. Maybe help out at an addiction center or something. But then again, your attitude is all about making people feel like crap, instead of trying to help them. This attitude is hurting the cause of getting people to quit, not helping it.

Have a great day.

 

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: Bluefront
What ......"We are all the same". "I am a potential addict". What a big crock, made worse by a long-winded essay based on psyco-babble. "I love the addict because he is me". Bahh...

Moonie....you can do better than that.

The "alcoholic gene" can affect pot smokers. The gene can probably also further niccotine addiction.

 

[Isla]

I usually recommend Smoking: The Artificial Passion to people who want to quit smoking. You have to look at what triggers you to want that smoke... when you get in the car, when you have your coffee in the morning, when you are drinking, and so on and so on.

It's a lot of hard work to quit. I was able to do it many years ago, but I had to do a lot of soul searching and self-analysis. Not exactly easy or pleasant...

 

[n0cmonkey]

BTW, for smokers that want to quit, there are quite a few good suggestions on sites like thetruth.com. I havent tried them or anything, but many of the suggestions are pretty common sense (but I hadnt thought of them at the time).

 

[Moonbeam]

n0cmonkey, this statement:

"But smokers are people too. We deserve the right to kill ourselves as slowly as we want. We know the consequences, we have accepted them."

while it is very true, is exactly what I mean by having a philosopyh about smoking that is created by the addict. The addict tells you that it is you who has made the choice to smoke in full knowledge of the consequences, but it isn't you who is talking, it's the addict. You see, from where I stand you don't have the right to kill yourself. Your real self is life, and the purpose of life is to live. No real self chooses death over life, but an addict will. Just cut off the addicts lifeline and he will die. Then you will see that you will not choose to smoke.

Bluefront, I hope you don't mind me injecting a little proviso here. When you say I can do better it implies that I was focuses of doing well. I wasn't. I was focused on what I find to be true. I'm not in a contest or shooting for a prize so I have to decline your invitation to do better. I can only do what I can do.

 

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
n0cmonkey, this statement:

"But smokers are people too. We deserve the right to kill ourselves as slowly as we want. We know the consequences, we have accepted them."

while it is very true, is exactly what I mean by having a philosopyh about smoking that is created by the addict. The addict tells you that it is you who has made the choice to smoke in full knowledge of the consequences, but it isn't you who is talking, it's the addict. You see, from where I stand you don't have the right to kill yourself. Your real self is life, and the purpose of life is to live. No real self chooses death over life, but an addict will. Just cut off the addicts lifeline and he will die. Then you will see that you will not choose to smoke.

I chose to smoke knowing all of the consequences. That is basically what I meant. The addiction does not choose for me, I choose. It sways the choice dramatically but I refuse to blame something else for my problems. You probably think its the addict typing this right now and thats fine. Two slightly differing views on the same subject that basically amount to the same thing....

 

[PistachioByAzul]

Anyone could be a smoker in another life time. There exists the same fallibility in all people, it's just a matter of whatever circumstances in life you happen to be exposed to.

n0cmonkey, there is no "something else", it's all in the mind. The point is not to blame, the point is to recognize, be mindful, and ultimately rise above.

 

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: EngineNr9
Anyone could be a smoker in another life time. There exists the same fallibility in all people, it's just a matter of whatever circumstances in life you happen to be exposed to.

n0cmonkey, there is no "something else", it's all in the mind. The point is not to blame, the point is to recognize, be mindful, and ultimately rise above.

I said I dont want to blame something else. I dont blame something else for the smoking problem. But the addiction is powerful. It does make a difference. It will not be easy. I will have to be ready. But it is definitely not "all in the mind." Niccotine is a physical addiction as well as mental, which makes it harder to kick. But, no matter how cheesey it sounds, I agree with the part I bolded

 

[PistachioByAzul]

Mind and body are one

You can be ready anytime, why not right now? I know the feeling, the emptiness and pain that comes from a lack of cigarettes. Saying that you choose to smoke is a cop out from dealing with the fact that you aren't really in control.

"My husband comes home drunk and beats me every night, but I choose to stay with him. Besides, I can leave any time I want." Sure. There's no time like the present.

 

[Xenon14]

My biggest problem with smokers is that they are causing me physical harm. If a person is sitting next to me drinking 10 shots of Vodka and poisoning his own liver, I am not paying for his drinking habits (unless of course he gets into his car and attempts to drive and in an indirect consequence gets in an accident with me). But people that smoke directly harm everyone around them. I do not choose to smoke, why then should I be exposed to it? Just like the smoker has a "right" to smoke, I think I have a right not to smoke. Besides the fact that smoking has no positive attributes to the person doing it, the fact that it harms me in the process PISSES ME OFF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Yeeny]

Quitting smoking is hard, its harder than anything non smokers could ever imagine. It is a part of your every day life, something you do for days, weeks, or even years faithfully, and all of a sudden its gone. Not to mention the actual physical cravings that hit you between the eyes. But for those that say they can't quit, bull. I am going on two years in December of being smoke free, after over ten years of puffing away. I can run now, I have lost the weight I gained, and I don't get sick like I used to. But it was definitely one of the hardest things I have ever done, and I only did it because I had immense support in every aspect of my life. Hell, even my fellow ATOT'ers made threads for me, supporting my decision to quit. I would have let down a lot of people if I didn't succeed. If you want someone to quit, don't try to bully them, or scare them into it. Tell them you love them, and you don't want them to leave you too soon. After seeing the women in my family getting sick from cancer, and some of them dying of it, all it took was my children to tell me they loved me and they wanted me to quit, and I was done.

Course, it took me three/four tries till I got it right, but in the end, I did it. Thats what counts right?

 

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: Xenon14
My biggest problem with smokers is that they are causing me physical harm. If a person is sitting next to me drinking 10 shots of Vodka and poisoning his own liver, I am not paying for his drinking habits (unless of course he gets into his car and attempts to drive and in an indirect consequence gets in an accident with me). But people that smoke directly harm everyone around them. I do not choose to smoke, why then should I be exposed to it? Just like the smoker has a "right" to smoke, I think I have a right not to smoke. Besides the fact that smoking has no positive attributes to the person doing it, the fact that it harms me in the process PISSES ME OFF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Then dont hang around smokers.

 

[Xenon14]

Then dont hang around smokers

n0cmonkey, Just how naive are you? Perhaps you don't get out much or you live in some desolated location, but you don't need to "hang out" with smokers to be around smokers. Surely you've been to a resteraunt at least once in your life. And don't give me that nonsense about sitting in a non-smoking section. A non-smoking section in a resteraunt is like a non-pissing section in a pool.

 

[PistachioByAzul]

Better not take showers then, you're inhaling chlorine, and certainly don't use any mass market shampoos for the chemicals in them that get absorbed into your head. Don't go outside and breath in car exhaust, don't consume processed foods, don't drink water from plastic bottles, don't expose yourself to radiation from TVs or computer monitors. Welcome to our toxic culture, the poison is already in you by the way. Your physical health was already thrown in the rubbish bin for the sake of convenience and fattening the bottom line. If you're worried about it so much, there are better ways to spend than moaning about the whiffs of second hand smoke you get every once in a while.

 

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: Xenon14

Then dont hang around smokers

n0cmonkey, Just how naive are you? Perhaps you don't get out much or you live in some desolated location, but you don't need to "hang out" with smokers to be around smokers. Surely you've been to a resteraunt at least once in your life. And don't give me that nonsense about sitting in a non-smoking section. A non-smoking section in a resteraunt is like a non-pissing section in a pool.

Do not visit that restaraunt. I have been to atleast one restaraunt that is totally non-smoking. I have also been to several that have good non-smoking sections.

 

[sandorski]

A challenge to Bluefront

If you believe your posts, then tobacco addiction is a sham, correct? Then you will have no problem doing this: Buy 1 pack Regular(non light, ultra, etc) cigarrettes and smoke that pack over the course of 2-3 days. 1 pack won't cause any health risk, unless you have a severe medical condition of some kind, and the addictive effect should still be mild enough to quit easily. I will assure you though, there will be some withdrawal.

Conditions of challenge:

1) You must inhale the smoke
2) You must take at least 5 drags per cigarrette as per condition 1
3) The cigarrette is to burn from the end to just 2-4mm from the filter


If you are scared and refuse the challenge, you are wise and should just STFU.

 

[Corn]

As someone who had smoked for 10 years, it's my opinion that anyone who says that smoking isn't addictive doesn't really understand.

Having said that however, the physical addiction lasts a mere couple days, and only the weakest of the weak can't make it. Smoking cigarettes is just nature's way of enforcing Darwinism when in competition with modern medicine.

Quitting smoiking was the easiest thing that I've ever done to improve the quality of my life: All I had to do was not get in my car and drive to the store, get out of the car and walk into the store, whip out my wallet and buy a pack of smokes. Simple!

The lifestyle change was a little more difficult though........instead of smoking, I occupied my time by walking, shopping, going to movies(you can't smoke there). It's easy to want to smoke when you are bored, so get off your duff and do something for chrissake!




.....oh and as is par for the course, Moonbeam's posts on this subject are flat out crap. Of course it fits with the typical nannystate politics that people like Moonie live for, but that's a discussion for another thread.

The notion that people have a choice in whether to quit or not are full of it.

Yes Moonie, people do have a choice in whether to quit or not. I made the choice to start, and I made the choice to quit. The fact of the matter is that some people just do not want to quit. Yeah they say "these things are killing me, I really wish I could quit", but it's nothing more than lip service.......who want's to admit they are too stupid to quit poisoning themselves? People find comfort for their lives in all sorts of manner. I smoked because I was bored. I quit when I decided it was more interesting to enrich my life, instead of sitting on the couch, at my computer desk, and at the bar, places that I liked to smoke because those activities bored me, I just didn't know it then.



For anyone here whose still smoking:

If you want to make quitting easy on yourself, just do this: Next time you get bronchitis, which will probably be any day now , crush your last pack, buy some nyquil, call in sick to work, ingest the aforementioned nyquil in large quantities, and sleep your cravings away. When you wake up 3 days later, you'll be free of the physical withdrawl of nicotine, and you can start on making that lifestyle change to keep yourself free of it. Worked for me.

 

[Stifko]

I gotta quit already.