Smart Home & Home Automation discussion thread

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Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
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Do you still use it, how often, any updates on pros/cons? How elderly friendly is the operation?

FYI - The price has dropped even more to $80 after coupon, I'm tempted to get a pair.

Yes. Very easy to use. Quality isn't great, but it's fine for calling grandparents who don't have Facetime or Hangouts. Big easy touchscreen pushbuttons.

My grandma uses Alexa everything...Echo, TV, etc. If I were to buy today, I would probably spring for a pair of Echo Shows due to the convenience & quality of Amazon's microphone & voice recognition system. However, if your family doesn't use Alexa (or iPhones or Androids for video chat), then the Nucleus is really the next best thing. For the price, I have no real complaints. Like I said, video quality isn't stellar, but it is acceptable. I wish they had a more flexible stand/mount system, but again, for the price, meh. Press button, make video call, dedicated device - easy!
 

Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
48,414
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Weird follow up, anyone have both google and alexa devices? they both have their strengths, didn't know it they would fight each other as I also bought a smartthings hub.

You shouldn't have any issues, as they are separate input systems. It'd be equivalent to pressing a lightswitch on the wall vs. pressing a lightswitch on your phone app - both just send commands in. Plus they both use different trigger words (Hey Google vs. Alexa) Older thread but this confirms it:

https://community.smartthings.com/t...nnected-to-smartthings-simultaneously/67598/4
 

hannah carter

Junior Member
Nov 2, 2017
3
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any thoughts on the robotic mops? Trying to decide how well of a job one would do in the kitchen. Have pets that can leave a mess. The reviews though don't seem to be all that spectacular, but not exactly horrible either. This site gives them a range between 9.7 and 7.9 ratings http://www.consumercharts.com/robot-mop/ but I'm looking for firsthand experience. TIA!
 

Crono

Lifer
Aug 8, 2001
23,720
1,501
136
Considering picking up a Harman Kardon Invoke tomorrow. What hub should I get? SmartThings, Insteon, and Wink are listed as currently supported.

I'm mainly getting this to use with Hue lights and some smart switches to begin with. Quick security updates (main reason I haven't gotten into IoT yet) are the most important thing to me. I don't need some hacker listening to me singing to Taylor Swift (but if you are reading this, hacker, at least have the courtesy to patch yourself in and make it a duet) or know what I'm cooking by the timers I set. :D
 
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Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
48,414
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any thoughts on the robotic mops? Trying to decide how well of a job one would do in the kitchen. Have pets that can leave a mess. The reviews though don't seem to be all that spectacular, but not exactly horrible either. This site gives them a range between 9.7 and 7.9 ratings http://www.consumercharts.com/robot-mop/ but I'm looking for firsthand experience. TIA!

Mixed feelings.

I like the robot vacuums a lot (mentioning the vacs first because you have to sweep or vacuum hard floors first anyway before mopping). They are basically dustbusters on wheels. I currently have an iLife A4, which is a great Roomba knockoff for less money ($199 with dual side brushes & a central suction-beater brush, self-docking for automatic recharging, and a scheduling remote control). I use it on the hardwood floors & carpeted floors:

https://www.amazon.com/ILIFE-A4s-Robot-Vacuum-Cleaner/dp/B01N9P4NH5/

I got my mom a Braava mopping bot a year or two ago for Christmas. It does an okay job. I'll elaborate a bit on both the mopping bot & vacuum bot because they both have a lot of minor details that really affect how you use them. So like with the vacuum bot, it's not very powerful. It's basically equivalent to a handheld dustbuster...it's not going to replace a full vacuum, but it will pick up the crap sitting on the top of your carpet & it will beat the carpet so that it looks nice. To be honest, if you have carpeting, it feels like a maid was in your house cleaning because it makes the carpets look nice. For my family, it incentivizes us to clean up the main rooms & bedrooms because the robot vac will eat wires & socks & anything else you leave in front of it to suck up & then choke on. Plus it's just plain fun hitting a button on the robot & having it go around & vacuum for you (or pressing a button on the remote control, or scheduling it to come out at a certain time).

The mop bot is a little bit different. When I was learning how to properly clean my house, I got a Swiffer WetJet, which is kind of the same concept...it has a bottle of cleaner that you stick on, you press a button on the handle & it sprays the juice out, and then there's a diaper on the end of the mop to scrub it up. Way less work than a mop & easy enough to pick up & use every couple of days without hassle. However, it made my floors feel kinda tacky. The Braava bot wasn't as bad, but it was kind of the same concept, except it took a long time to do it, the floors sometimes stayed a bit wet, and it didn't seem to do as good of a job with coverage as the robot vacuum did. The one I got my mom had different types of disposable cleaning pads; one had the solution baked into the pad, so you would fill it with water, it would squirt out the water, and then run the pad over the water & put the solution on the floor & then scrub it. A quick look at Amazon is showing me some reusable pads, so maybe they can use a cleaning solution instead of water in the tank now, I dunno.

What I ultimately switched to, at least at my house, was this puppy:

https://www.amazon.com/Cedar-EasyWring-Microfiber-Bucket-Cleaning/dp/B00WSWGVZQ

It has a re-usable micro-fiber cloth mop in a triangle shape, so it's easy to get into corners & under counters (vs. the big dreadlock monster mops). The bucket has a foot pedal for spinning the cloth clean, similar to a salad spinner. I ended up learning how to make my own mopping solution (water, vinegar, lemon juice, dish soap) & it works great...makes the floors feel nice, instead of tacky. It does make your house stink like vinegar for a couple hours, and it does take a little while to dry if you don't run a towel over your floors to manually dry it, but it's cheap & works better than anything else I've used.

So I don't want to completely talk you out of a robot mop, but just in my experience, I've had better & faster results using that slick microfiber bucket cleaning system off Amazon. I still use the robot vac to do the vacuuming because it does a really good job, but I like the way my floors felt using the homemade cleaning solution & liked how fast & easy it was with the manual method vs. having the mop bot go around, because it never seemed to do as good of a job as I wanted when I was first testing it out or when I would go & visit my mom's house and play with the bot. Plus you have to remove the battery & charge it on the wall, and also manually refill the water tank, whereas with the vac bot, it self-charges on a dock & there's just a little removable bin to empty the trash out from.

I still think they are pretty cool, but my current combo is an iLife A4 vac bot & the microfiber mop system. Plus a regular vacuum for doing a deep cleaning on the carpet like once a month.
 
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Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
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Two new goodies from Amazon today:
  1. Indoor cloud camera (think Nest)
  2. Key service
First up, the Cloud Cam:

https://www.amazon.com/Introducing-Amazon-Cloud-Cam/dp/B01C4UY0JK/

Pretty dang good deal:
  • $120 for one camera
  • $200 for two cameras (coupon: 2CLOUDCAM)
  • $290 for three cameras (coupon: 3CLOUDCAM)
Service plan looks excellent: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B073VTXCH7/

Next up, Amazon Key:

https://www.amazon.com/Introducing-Amazon-Key-In-Home-Kit/dp/B00KCYQGXE/

Amazon Key is an in-home delivery service for Prime Members. For $250, you get an Amazon cloud cam, plus either a Yale or Kwikset deadbolt kit. Only available in select cities for now:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html?nodeId=202177430

The service is current designed for:
  1. Amazon Prime package delivery in your house
  2. People access (family, friends, service people like maids or dogwalkers, guests - I'd imagine integrated AirBnB support at some point)
  3. Professional service providers (looks like Amazon is going to be doing something Angie's List-style...1,200+ services available from Amazon Home Services)
The procedure for delivery is:
  1. The driver will always knock first
  2. If no one answers, they will request secure access
  3. The Cloud Cam begins recording
  4. The driver is granted access & is recorded putting your package(s) just inside your front door
I was ready to call this stupid, but I've lived in some crummy places where packages get ripped off when you're not home, so this is actually pretty awesome.
 

RossMAN

Grand Nagus
Feb 24, 2000
78,794
266
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This is easily one of my favorite AT threads, lots of useful information and new toys to consider!
 

Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
48,414
5,270
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I got my 2017 Kindle Fire HD 10" tablet in. The base price is $150 shipped:

https://www.amazon.com/All-New-Amazon-Fire-HD-10-Inch-Tablet-32GB-Black/dp/B01J6RPGKG

I use this multi-angle tablet stand: (press the button on the side hinge to angle the kickstand where you want it)

https://www.amazon.com/Anker-Portable-Multi-Angle-Smartphones-Compatible/dp/B00N1VDCGO

The reason I bought this was to use in the kitchen for recipes & other functions. The key feature with this tablet, aside from the low price, is that it has hands-free Alexa built-in (the other Fire tablets require that you push a button to activate Alexa). Alexa is handy for stuff liked named timers (ex. "Alexa, set a timer for cookies for 10 minutes" - in 10 minutes = "your cookie timer is done"), which is especially useful if you're cooking multiple things at once. Plus it can do conversions (ex. how many tablespoons are in 1/4 cup). The only thing that bugs me about it is that Spotify can only be voice-controlled on an Echo, not on the Fire tablets at the moment (Amazon says they are working on that....it's the same deal with Garmin's Alexa solution for automobiles, I'm guessing it's a licensing issue). You can also issue smart home commands & load smart home apps like the Wink app on there, watch Youtube cooking videos, pull up websites with recipes, use Pinterest, etc.

For getting data in the kitchen, I previously had a smaller 43" hi-rez 4K TV mounted in my kitchen (got relocated to be my gaming screen woot woot) with a wireless keyboard & mouse (I tried both a mini PC & Chromebox), and before that, I used my laptop, but the tablet won out because it's a much larger screen than my iPhone (and larger than the previous 7" Kindle Fire I tried, which makes it easier to read the recipes) & takes up less space than a laptop (wide + keyboard), plus is really portable so as my limited counter space fills up I can move it to where I'm working. The catch is that I find touchscreen keyboards to be annoying, which is why I try to use it to cook off my personal recipe files, which are already typed out to my liking. The low price of the tablet & the HFO of Alexa are what won me over to the 2017 10" Fire HD...I just couldn't justify spending $500 on an equivalent iPad for just pulling up recipe sheets.

I current use Google Drive to store my recipes. I have a folder for each recipe. In each folder, I have a Google Doc, which has a link to the website (or book), plus my own instructions for the recipe. I also save a copy of the website to PDF, or rip the tutorial video (using Firefox with the VideoDownloadHelper plugin), or scan the page from the recipe book). This way if the website ever goes down or the book ever gets misplaced, I always have a copy of the original recipe to reference). In order to put the real version of Google Drive (and Google Docs & Google Sheets) on your tablet, you have to install the Google Play Store (it comes with the Amazon app store by default). A tutorial is available here:

http://blog.the-ebook-reader.com/20...oogle-play-on-2017-fire-tablets-in-5-minutes/

The basic process is:

1. Setup the tablet settings
2. Download 4 APK files in order (note: with the latest Fire firmware, I had to cycle on/off/on the security allow permissions to get the install button to become clickable for EACH download)
3. Reboot & sign into your Google account (note: if you download Google Docs, it will have you update the Google Play services)

So that's pretty nice because you can pull up your recipes & use the tablet around the kitchen thanks to the stand & do a bunch of additional easy functions with it. Note that the tablet is oddly vertical (1920x1200), which is actually really nice for stuff like Docs, where you want to read it like a sheet of paper. I recommend turning the display sleep settings to either 10 or 30 minutes so that it doesn't automatically shut off on you while you're working through a recipe & your hands are dirty. Overall I am really liking it so far, especially since I set my recipes up to be usable even when I'm braindead after work, haha. Very elegant & budget-friendly hi-tech solution for a simple problem:

XXi7qNY.jpg
 
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Linflas

Lifer
Jan 30, 2001
15,395
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There is a product which can detect smoke alarms going off and can alert you. That way, you could stick with dumb alarms and still be alerted. I think it is called Leeo or something similar?
Just a followup, I ended up buying 1 Nest to use in the kitchen location with the idea that if it didn't work out I could move it to the upstairs location and try another solution for the kitchen. After 4 months the only thing that triggered it was burnt toast one time. I bought a 2nd one for the upstairs location and plan on picking a 3rd up for the basement this week. We have lots of pets so I really like that it will notify us via our phones if anything triggers them while we are at work.
 

Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
48,414
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Blink cut off SmartThings integration on 12/19 to much outrage. Then on 12/20:

Amazon acquires Blink

tbh I don't trust Google hardware. They don't have a very good track record of supporting their stuff, and I personally do not consider Android secure.

Amazon, however, has the voice stuff nailed, plus the store to support selling compatible products. If the smart Echo gets to the point where it can replace my Wink, I will do it.
 

IndyColtsFan

Lifer
Sep 22, 2007
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tbh I don't trust Google hardware. They don't have a very good track record of supporting their stuff, and I personally do not consider Android secure.

I bought a Google Mini on Black Friday for testing. I haven’t done as much testing as I’d like, but I don’t think Echo is in any danger based on what I’ve seen so far.

Amazon, however, has the voice stuff nailed, plus the store to support selling compatible products. If the smart Echo gets to the point where it can replace my Wink, I will do it.

I was on the verge of returning my Blink cameras due to their poorly executed discontinuation of the ST integration. They are now offering to take back ANY camera bought within the last year. That would only be 6 of my 16 cameras so I was leaning towards keeping them and using IFTTT and webcore to mimic the old ST functionality. With the Amazon announcement though, I’m keeping them and will probably add more.

BTW, SmartThings has been on sale for $50 most of the holiday season and you’d be shocked at how much more powerful it is. I’d almost go as far as saying that ST is the best consumer-level HA hub on the market thanks to webCoRE. Anyway, don’t be shocked if Amazon acquires Wink in the future. Wink cannot possibly survive on its own against the heavyweights - their product just isn’t good enough and even if it were, it would still be super hard for them to survive against the Samsungs, Googles, Amazons, and Apples of the world.
 

CAL7

Member
Sep 29, 2014
108
2
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Can you enable/disable specific individual cameras through IFTTT? I thought the rboy app was the only way to do this.
 

IndyColtsFan

Lifer
Sep 22, 2007
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Can you enable/disable specific individual cameras through IFTTT? I thought the rboy app was the only way to do this.

Unfortunately, you cannot. What you have to do is on each sync module, arm each camera and then when IFTTT arms that sync module, those cameras will be active.
 

Commodus

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 2004
9,210
6,809
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I've had the opportunity to try Alexa, Google Assistant and HomeKit in the same setup lately... and in my experience, HomeKit stomps on the other two when it comes to smart lighting.

Alexa: even when you group lights, it still asks me to name the specific light I want to toggle. It also can't change colors with scenes (you have to manually specify it).

Google Assistant: light groups work as they should, but you can't specify more than one action for a "shortcut" (Google's take on scenes). So you can turn on all lights (either in a room or across the home) or an individual light, but you can't turn on some lights across multiple rooms or change both their color and brightness. And for some reason, Assistant has no idea what "white" is. Ask for that and you get yellow.

HomeKit: everything works as it should. You can easily toggle lights by room; you can specify scenes that toggle lights in some rooms but not others, and at the exact color/brightness you want; and of course, they know what white light is.

I can't help but think that HomePod might succeed just because it's the smart speaker that will actually control your lights like you'd expect.
 

IndyColtsFan

Lifer
Sep 22, 2007
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I've had the opportunity to try Alexa, Google Assistant and HomeKit in the same setup lately... and in my experience, HomeKit stomps on the other two when it comes to smart lighting.

Alexa: even when you group lights, it still asks me to name the specific light I want to toggle. It also can't change colors with scenes (you have to manually specify it).

Google Assistant: light groups work as they should, but you can't specify more than one action for a "shortcut" (Google's take on scenes). So you can turn on all lights (either in a room or across the home) or an individual light, but you can't turn on some lights across multiple rooms or change both their color and brightness. And for some reason, Assistant has no idea what "white" is. Ask for that and you get yellow.

HomeKit: everything works as it should. You can easily toggle lights by room; you can specify scenes that toggle lights in some rooms but not others, and at the exact color/brightness you want; and of course, they know what white light is.

I can't help but think that HomePod might succeed just because it's the smart speaker that will actually control your lights like you'd expect.

I'm not sure I follow you on the light grouping on Alexa - you can create groups in Alexa and say "Alexa, turn on <insert group name>" and it will turn on all the lights in that group. I haven't done much with lighting scenes in any of the various environments because my needs are pretty basic and I've only had my Google Mini for a few weeks and haven't done much HA related with it, so I can't really comment much on scenes.

In my limited experience with HomeKit, the main issue that I've seen is lack of an advanced logic or rules engine. Maybe that has changed recently but the last time I looked, it was pretty basic.
 

Commodus

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 2004
9,210
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I'm not sure I follow you on the light grouping on Alexa - you can create groups in Alexa and say "Alexa, turn on <insert group name>" and it will turn on all the lights in that group. I haven't done much with lighting scenes in any of the various environments because my needs are pretty basic and I've only had my Google Mini for a few weeks and haven't done much HA related with it, so I can't really comment much on scenes.

In my limited experience with HomeKit, the main issue that I've seen is lack of an advanced logic or rules engine. Maybe that has changed recently but the last time I looked, it was pretty basic.

Here's the problem: Alexa ignores those group settings, at least in my case. I say "Alexa, turn on my office" and it still says "there are multiple devices that go by that name. Which one did you want?" In other words, I might as well have no groups at all. The only way I can get groups to behave is by invoking scenes that happen to involve those groups.
 

IndyColtsFan

Lifer
Sep 22, 2007
33,656
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Here's the problem: Alexa ignores those group settings, at least in my case. I say "Alexa, turn on my office" and it still says "there are multiple devices that go by that name. Which one did you want?" In other words, I might as well have no groups at all. The only way I can get groups to behave is by invoking scenes that happen to involve those groups.

This is an issue with Alexa and names and not the grouping feature. I have the same issue when calling individual equipment at times as well - it IS frustrating and Amazon needs to work on this. I had another issue with one of my ecobee sensors too. The ecobee sensor in my office was called Office Sensor or something along those lines. When I said "Alexa, what is the temperature in the office?", she would respond that the device didn't support the functionality. That's because, I think, I have a ton of other items with "Office" in the title (my office is the most automated room in my house and I probably have 40-50 of my current 160 devices in it). I finally had to rename it to Mancave sensor and it worked fine. You would think that Alexa would've been smart enough to find the device with "Office" in its name that supported the ecobee skill reporting temp, but it isn't.

I can tell you that when I say something like "Alexa, turn front room on," it will turn on all the lights in that room.
 

Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
48,414
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Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
48,414
5,270
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Kohler and Delta debut Voice Controlled faucets: (ex. Alexa support)

https://thespoon.tech/kohler-and-delta-debut-voice-controlled-faucets/

This actually sounds pretty cool. My in-laws have a touch-controlled Delta faucet, which sounds great in theory, but is actually super annoying in practice. However, a voice-controlled version would be slick when your hands are dirty with meat juice or sticky dough fingers or whatever. I mean, it's technically minor stuff (as is most smarthome features), but super convenient haha. Looks like it adds metered dispensing (ex. fill 8oz) & can also do some basic temperature stuff (preheat or dispense hot water). I'm curious if they'll get to the point of doing exact temperatures (sous vide-style) at some point, so if you know you want the water at like 126F for your hot chocolate, you can have it do that. On a tangent, here's an interesting article about what time & temperatures are required to clean dishes:

https://www.thespruce.com/does-hot-water-kill-bacteria-1900379

You can kill bacteria by using 212F water for a few minutes, but your skin can only handle around 110F for short periods of time, and since most manual dishwashing (and clothes washing) is done at temps lower than 120F (which is the standard setting on residential hot water heaters), so you have to use a disinfecting detergent. The article also recommends doing a sanitizing step with a bit of bleach to kill bacteria. This is interesting because I hand-wash most of my dishes just to stay on top of them so they don't pile up (because after you rinse them in order to put them in the dishwasher, it only takes an extra 30 seconds to scrub them with soap, which annoys me to the point that I rarely use my dishwasher lol), so maybe I've been doing it wrong all this time, eek...
 

Ns1

No Lifer
Jun 17, 2001
55,413
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I can't believe this thread was created almost 5 years ago (and look who has first reply).

Well now I'm actually in a house with a shitload of lights and everything is pissing me off, so going to try to automate some shit. thanks again Kaido for this thread, how you have time for all this shit is beyond me.
 
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Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
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I can't believe this thread was created almost 5 years ago (and look who has first reply).

Haha dang, has it been that long? I think the only thing I don't have at this point is motorized blinds, which I'm saving for the house, due to the cost (still renting atm...been enjoying living all over CT for the last few years hehe).

I am a big fan of Alexa these days. I am very excited to see where they go in the future, especially with (1) their new model that has their own hub integrated into it, and (2) all of the Alexa-certified devices coming out (especially for the kitchen!).

I am considering migrating from Wink to Smart Things because of Action Tiles. I like the idea of having an actual panel display in each room, especially with security camera integration.

I like the direction that Phillips is going with their Hue line...under-counter lights, color temperature changes, etc. in addition to color changes & whatnot. I'm not an overly huge fan of ultra-colorful decor, but it would be a cool feature to have.
 
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Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
48,414
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thanks again Kaido for this thread, how you have time for all this...

You're welcome! And eh, it's more iterative than anything. Think of it as following football or something...once you know the basics, you can glance at any current game & know what's up. Same deal for this (and other) threads...there are some basic things out there like lights, door locks, garage door openers, cameras, motion sensors, etc., and then everything else is mostly just iterative, so it really boils down to just updating the list (which I need to do...lol). Then it's a question of what do you want to do, what's the current scoop on what works & what's good, etc.

I think Amazon is going to be the company that nails it...seamless integration, huge store to sell all kinds of compatible stuff, you don't really have to think about it beyond buying it & installing it, plus there's additional features like the "drop-in" intercom system built into the Echo now, so it's all gotten pretty looney with how easily & accessible it is. Five years from now, I think smarthome tech with VUI's will be pretty commonplace, and people won't really give it a second thought...it will become the same as keyless entry has become in cars, standard.
 
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Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
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Other than looks, it doesn't seem like it does anything that current smart thermostats don't already do... Right?

I'll start out by saying that personally, I prefer automation over smart features. Like, I don't really like the Nest thermostat...I don't want it to figure stuff out for me. I like to set my own schedules & change the temperature when I want to, which is why I have a Honeywell color touchscreen thermostat with Wi-fi. I can use my phone to control it, or my voice (via Alexa), and can control it remotely away from home so I can keep the house cool during the day during the winter & then warm it up before I get home.

As far as the uniqueness of the Glas thermostat:
Dubbed Glas, the thermostat is designed to compete with devices like the Google-owned Nest. As with its competitors, it's designed for aftermarket addition into existing home and office heating, ventilation, and cooling (HVAC) systems, and has attractive design at its heart: the wall-mounted gadget features a translucent touch-screen interface, while commands can also be issued by voice for execution by Cortana. In addition to basic heating and cooling functions, the Windows 10 IoT Core-powered Glas also pulls in data about energy usage, air quality, and includes basic 'smart assistant' functionality including calendar notifications.

1. Controls HVAC
2. Voice commands via Cortana
3. Adds data about energy use & air quality
4. Includes some smart-enabled stuff like calendar notifications

5. Looks wicked cool (transparent touchscreen? neato!)

Really only #3 & #4 are novel. Although it's not like you can really do anything about the energy usage short of re-insulating your house or purchasing a more efficient HVAC system, and the smart-enabled stuff could be replicated via IFTTT or Smart Things, so...yeah. Pretty much it looks really cool, haha. Also, there's no way I'd ever let my HVAC system run on a Windows-based machine LOL.

A lot of things are cool to do, but not necessarily useful. Like with water heaters...yeah, so you can get a smart interface for Rheem. Tells you the temperature. Gee whiz...in reality, I've never even adjusted the temperature on mine...like, ever. OK, so maybe it tells you if it breaks, but then again, it's going to be pretty obvious that it's broken, you know? :D It's the same thing with that 20-pound propane tank smart scale that Quirky used to sell...cool idea, but for $49, I'll just buy a second tank so I don't run out, thank you very much :D