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SLI 6600GTs vs X850XT
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HeroOfPellinor
Lifer
What WHO was talking about? There's like a half dozen arguments in this thread, if I don't quote one, assume it's directed at the original poster. K, newbie?
Well, OMG, if the slots are full I guess there's nothing I can do to upgrade. I'll just have to throw the whole computer into the trash and build another one. Maybe you shouldn't Crazy Glue the video cards in...I don't know.
Is that so? Well, in the face of such overwhelming evidence and damning logic, I'll concede. I hate it when people use caps because it means what they're saying is absolute truth. I only with I'd have thought to use them FIRST.
Could I? I could also pick up an Nforce2 board and a mobile barton and OC it and get "roughly" the same performance. :roll:
The bottom line is that the upgrade to an SLI system will be, proportionately the same regardless of when you do it. Whether now or later at which time you'll have to eat the depreciation on your non-SLI board.
I'm sure you know that that mod doesn't work with newer cards. I'm sure you knew that and didn't mind embarassing yourself. I'm sure.
Splendid. Hey, I've got dozens of other OFF TOPIC recommendations too. Shall I mystifyingly drop them into random threads too? I mean, you brough up a modded X800Pro....how about a modded and overclocked 6800NU? How about we start ANOTHER THREAD and argue what is the best bang for the buck upgrade?
WTF is this? Who the hell are you? You show up all of a sudden, make some unsupported off topic arguments and conclude with some kind of assertion of intellectual superiority? :roll: I know it's tough for you with this being Prom season and you not able to get a date, but, really, bring it up with your therapist instead of trying to overcompensate on message boards like this....that's what your mother is paying him for.
BFG10K
Lifer
Then why pimp the 6600GT setup as useful? For that matter when did you ever mention a 6800GT setup previously in this thread?
Strawman arguments will get you nowhere. As for role reversal, you do that everytime is required to make nV look the best so you should be right at home with that paradigm.
If you want to rewrite history that's your problem, not mine.
What else is there apart from the video accelerator?
And to quote yourself again:
And how fast does HDR run under Far Cry or SM 2.0++ in Riddick? Riddick doesn't even run under SLI does it? And AA doesn't go with HDR + Far Cry.
So tell me Rollo, what happened to that "usable settings" rubbish? Why in the past was ATi's shader advantage irrelevant while today's nVidia's SM 3.0 is a "must have"? Another role reversal I see?
I didn't leave anything out and I made multiple comments about the rest of the benchmarks.
Not to mention that you've conveniently left out your past stance that HL2 was irrelevant but Doom 3 was the only game we needed to discuss, no doubt because nV came out on top. Yet now you're using HL2 as an example to back your comments. So tell me Rollo, when the R3xx was creaming the NV3x why did you proclaim HL2 - and in fact all shader games - as irrelevant?
Yes including price and noise. If you expect anybody to believe that a pair of 6800GTs are quiet you are simply delusional.
Just like you know more about how the 5800U is equal to a 9700 Pro because you tried it?
BTW Rollo, when is your "I swapped my 6800GTs to a 5800U and went online and kicked ass in 1024x768 in UT2003 so therefore the cards are equal" thread coming?
Thanks to your delusional fanboy ramblings I no longer trust a single word you say if it's pro-nVidia or anti-ATi. Your childish antics for the last few years are proof enough: you are simply incapable of producing an unbiased or rational appraisal of the situation.
BFG10K
Lifer
If you want to be obtuse that's your problem, not mine.
Wrong on both counts. Did you read the prices I quoted or not? As for performance the bulk of the situations a single 6800GT will be faster and have greater compatibility too.
Not to mention that it's rather simplified to only include the prices of the cards as the SLI system may require a new motherboard, fans, PSU, etc.
On what evidence are you basing this on? Not to mention that the 6600GT will become obsolete faster unless you find somebody willing to do an SLI setup where you can unload both of them at once. If you unload one at a time you'll get peanuts for it, especially when the next generation mid-range cards arrive.
While all that is interesting BFG10K- you've posted nothing about the what the supposed "serious issues" are with SLI that make it a "waste".
Please try to stay on topic? This isn't about 5800s or 9700s?
Here, I'll show you how:
Half Life 2 comparison
There's my 6800GTs running HL2 16X12 4X8X at 85fps, while your single 6800U is at 54fps. 31/54= the SLI you say is a "waste" running the worlds most popular shooter 57% faster than your choice at high res, high detail.
Doom3 comparison
There's my 6800GTs running Doom3 16X12 4X8X at 65 fps, while your choice is at 42 fps, not even playable. 23/54= 54%
Far Cry comparison
There's my 6800GTs running Far Cry 16X12 4X8X at 58fps, and again your choice isn't even playable at 38fps. 20/38= 52%
There you have it BFG:
At the three most demanding and popular game engines, SLI offers over 50% improvement in framerate over your choice. Two of the games aren't even playable at 16X12 4X8X on your card. Most people wouldn't call that a "waste"?
Like I said, apparently our roles have reversed and these days you are advocating lower resolution and lower detail settings for the budget conscious consumer.
Please try to stay on topic? This isn't about 5800s or 9700s?
Here, I'll show you how:
Half Life 2 comparison
There's my 6800GTs running HL2 16X12 4X8X at 85fps, while your single 6800U is at 54fps. 31/54= the SLI you say is a "waste" running the worlds most popular shooter 57% faster than your choice at high res, high detail.
Doom3 comparison
There's my 6800GTs running Doom3 16X12 4X8X at 65 fps, while your choice is at 42 fps, not even playable. 23/54= 54%
Far Cry comparison
There's my 6800GTs running Far Cry 16X12 4X8X at 58fps, and again your choice isn't even playable at 38fps. 20/38= 52%
There you have it BFG:
At the three most demanding and popular game engines, SLI offers over 50% improvement in framerate over your choice. Two of the games aren't even playable at 16X12 4X8X on your card. Most people wouldn't call that a "waste"?
Like I said, apparently our roles have reversed and these days you are advocating lower resolution and lower detail settings for the budget conscious consumer.
BFG10K
Lifer
So you have no answer to perfectly valid points that shred your fanboy arguments and as usual you continue your nVidia pimpage. In that respect your role certainly hasn't reversed.
"Most popular shooter"? LMAO. Funnny, I never heard you call it that when the 9700 Pro was tooling your beloved 5800 fetish. Where are your fat jokes about Gabe getting into bed with ATi now Rollo?
Ah, so back when you had the 5800U anything above 1024x768 was irrelevant and we didn't need anything else. That's quite a change, or "role reversal" as you call it.
Actually your role as nVidia fanboy hasn't really reversed at all come to think of it.
There I have what? Where did I deny the likes of a 6800 GT SLI setup isn't faster than a single 6800U?
There's more straw in that one than a hay barn.
HeroOfPellinor
Lifer
My move from NF3 to NF4 SLI cost me $0. So that's moot and is equally moot for any literate human being capable of clicking on the Hot Deals forum and using a calculator.
And my MSI 6600GT cost me $150 after tax and shipping brand new from a major retailer. I could order another for the same price today if I wanted. I could NOT get a 6800GT for less than $369. The one you quoted is an AGP card, dude.
No evidence, just sound logic. The 6800GT price has had a premium placed on it because it was the, essentially, performance king. With the X850XT and R520 and NVidia's answer to the new kings as well as the X800XL, the 6800GTs premium will disappear and you'll be left eating it. As I'm sure you know, midrange cards come out much later than new high end cards, so the 6600GT competitor will be later to arrive and won't be any sooner than a year....but, realistically, what could they introduce that for $150 will perform better and not chop the legs out from under their 6800GT sales? And look at the 9800PRo which is STILL retailing for $200. The fact is, that the performance😛rice ratio of these sub $200 "mid-range" cards degrades very very slowly.
The problem with this BFG, is that when I said it was irrelevant debating you about 9700Pros and 5800Us the game itself was a year away from completion? While Gabe may indeed have shown us the 5800/5900s were not the card to have for HL2, It wouldn't really matter at all because those cards were antiques by the time HL2 was finally released.
Now it is released, and probably the biggest selling shooter of 2004, unless Doom3 beat it. So it is a relevant benchmark now, it wasn't then.
Why do you keep talking about 5800s when I try to discuss SLI and your incorrect assertion that it's a "waste" and has "serious issues"?
Here?
(if you meant 6600GT SLI is a waste, you should have specified)
and here?
You still haven't backed up your claims with any examples of SLI's supposed "serious issues" by telling us what they are?
[/quote]
Hey, I'm not the one who said SLI is a waste when it clearly provides otherwhise unnattainable performance, you are. I'm not the one who made unsubstantiated, vague claims of "serious issues", you are.
I'm the one who actually bought three sets of SLI cards and saw for myself that they work great. I game on SLI every day and I've seen one issue with Riddick. Where are the "serious issues" you speak of BFG?
If I was a NooB and saw your "Lifer" status I might take your advice and not buy an SLI set based on your advice. Hopefully people will believe me (the guy who uses it) rather than you, the guy who disses it.
each post you make, makes your IQ look halved at an increasing interval, your in the single digits now, but look at the bright side, you CAN'T DROP BELOW 0!!! Pat yourself on the back i love you. I wont even pick apart any more of your non-sense, I'll save it for somebody who can actually dish up a REAL arguement. Continue to do things just the way you are, while superior builders like myself laugh at you and your kind. :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:
Welcome to the wild world of the internet Rollo, as I'm sure you have saw much worse in your time, I know I have. If he was talking to me like that face to face, he'd leave with the gift of his teeth in his hands. I normally don't take it to a personal level until they do, at which point the gloves are off... Being on this forum longer and having xxxx posts means nothing, especially in his case, when he's argueing that 6600GT's is a good setup... 98% of this board points at 6600GT SLI as a waste of money, and it makes complete sense, since once you have the 6600GT SLI setup, the only way to improve performance is to completely replace both cards (or hard mod, which essentially won't do much).
Granted, SLI is still new, in future chipsets, and perhaps even with updated drivers and current chipsets alone, SLI will prove to increase more broadscale performance, but ATM, 6600GT SLI is just an irrational move to make... I hope to see SLI make performance increases > 90% in the future (if it was like that NOW, I COULD POSSIBLY understand buying 6600GT's, but even still, a single 6800GT would atleast leave you the option of upgrading at a reasonable price later when prices on it drop). You have to agree that his view is quite wrong Rollo, you above all posting on this topic should know, considering you are using 6800GT SLI yourself... while also owning 6600GT's AND 6800NU's.
I will agree with him to a certain extent, that the 6600GT depreciation will be slower than the 6800GT, but only in raw $, not on a % ratio. 6600GT's are the midstream right now, once the new high ends debut, I expect 6600GT will take eventually take over the role of the 6200 and fall into that pricerange, while the 6800GT will likely take it's position of midstream and drop into the $130-$200 range, while the ultra stands in the $250-$350 range, and the new high ends sell at premium prices. Go ahead and quote me on that in future reference.
Granted, SLI is still new, in future chipsets, and perhaps even with updated drivers and current chipsets alone, SLI will prove to increase more broadscale performance, but ATM, 6600GT SLI is just an irrational move to make... I hope to see SLI make performance increases > 90% in the future (if it was like that NOW, I COULD POSSIBLY understand buying 6600GT's, but even still, a single 6800GT would atleast leave you the option of upgrading at a reasonable price later when prices on it drop). You have to agree that his view is quite wrong Rollo, you above all posting on this topic should know, considering you are using 6800GT SLI yourself... while also owning 6600GT's AND 6800NU's.
I will agree with him to a certain extent, that the 6600GT depreciation will be slower than the 6800GT, but only in raw $, not on a % ratio. 6600GT's are the midstream right now, once the new high ends debut, I expect 6600GT will take eventually take over the role of the 6200 and fall into that pricerange, while the 6800GT will likely take it's position of midstream and drop into the $130-$200 range, while the ultra stands in the $250-$350 range, and the new high ends sell at premium prices. Go ahead and quote me on that in future reference.
HeroOfPellinor
Lifer
Read this thread again and YOU tell ME who took it to a personal level first.
But, hey, sincerely, thanks for joining the forums and being such a great contributor. You have 21 posts and 25% of them are flames in this thread and personal insults/threats. WTG!!!!
And you really are a superior builder with that leet Xaser case and pimp Maxtor hard drives and a drive that actually burns CDs. I'm particularly jealous of that 19 foot monitor......my gosh, that thing must be like a movie theatre.
Thanks for the welcome, appreciated. I'll keep stepping up to correct statements like yours in the future as well. Yes, this 19 foot CRT is amazing, it takes up 2 stories, and boasts a resolution of 9000x8000 @ 120hz! It only costed me $30k, and has a tailend that sticks out 12 feet.
Anyhow, just do yourself a favor and drop the 6600GT SLI arguement, it's a battle that can't be won. I hope you were kidding from the start about the whole thing, or were simply uninformed, because really, this has been talked about and argued 100's of times here and other places already, every time the 6600 SLI lost the battle, and it wasn't because smarter people were opposing it, but because it just makes sense...
Anyhow, just do yourself a favor and drop the 6600GT SLI arguement, it's a battle that can't be won. I hope you were kidding from the start about the whole thing, or were simply uninformed, because really, this has been talked about and argued 100's of times here and other places already, every time the 6600 SLI lost the battle, and it wasn't because smarter people were opposing it, but because it just makes sense...
Hero of Pellinor:
obes2K:
The 6600GT SLI rig isn't going to win bang for buck competitions these days, but it's a capable gaming rig that has the most advanced video processor available, so for that alone it is not worthy of disdain. It's not as good of a deal as a 6800GT set, but the people using them weren't stolen from either.
In general, the difference between the 6600GT SLI and a 6800GT is 2X AA. (i.e. If a game will run at 12X10 4X8X on a 6800GT but not a 6600GT SLI, it will be faster on the 6600GT SLI at 12X10 2X8X) That's not too harsh a sacrifice. 🙂
Hey! I love my XaserIII! I was looking for the case with the highest air cooling potential, it fit the bill. (I know the looks are a love/hate thing for most though- it's not exactly "plain")
obes2K:
The 6600GT SLI rig isn't going to win bang for buck competitions these days, but it's a capable gaming rig that has the most advanced video processor available, so for that alone it is not worthy of disdain. It's not as good of a deal as a 6800GT set, but the people using them weren't stolen from either.
In general, the difference between the 6600GT SLI and a 6800GT is 2X AA. (i.e. If a game will run at 12X10 4X8X on a 6800GT but not a 6600GT SLI, it will be faster on the 6600GT SLI at 12X10 2X8X) That's not too harsh a sacrifice. 🙂
HeroOfPellinor
Lifer
No offense, but the Xaser is to the computer case world what David Lee Roth's pants were to the 80's. We can take this to Cases And Cooling and duke it out there, but, my gosh, dude, that thing is the archtype of the ridiculously gaudy case.
The only thing they did well was bring out out fan controllers and grills and HSFs to perfectly match it in gaudiness so you weren't forced to stare at something cool that would be looking all out of place on your glossy twisted hunk of steel computer case looking like a Transformer's toe. 🙂
It's been surpassed many fold since then by the Guardian and Alien and Vampire, but it will always have a special place in history........like the AMC Gremlin.
BFG10K
Lifer
It did? Then either you stole the motherboard or you got it for free. In either case that's not what I'd call typical.
Why do you need PCIe if you're not doing SLI? A 6800 GT can be made to run on basically any motherboard made in the last three years while the number of motherboards that a pair of 6600GTs can be run on can be counted on two hands. Why are you ignoring this fact because it doesn't suit your argument?
Far from it.
Yes and it'll hold a higher price than a mid-range card.
Exactly. Do you not see the correlation between a 6800 GT (now) and a 9800 Pro (two years ago)? They're exactly the same.
Make the same argument two years ago and now flash forward to today; how much is 9600XT selling for? And if you had two of them how much value do you think they'd have compared to a 9800 Pro?
BFG10K
Lifer
Far from it; in fact you've continued to downplay ATI's HL2 advantage right until nVidia SLI was available, at which point they came out on top and no surprises to learn Rollo had changed his tune. No surprises with Doom 3 either as nVidia was always the king in this area so Rollo trumpeted the advantage wherever he could.
Very similar to Far Cry when numerous articles described the NV3x performance problems, IQ problems and the fact that the TWIMTBP logo on that game was a total joke. Yet Rollo was making "smack smack shiny pipes" comments and dismissing the game (and in fact SM 2.x in general) as irrelevant. Then patch 1.2 came along with SM 3.0 and suddenly Rollo was proclaiming the death knell of ATi because Far Cry - a solitary game whose patch had been recalled no less - supported SM 3.0. Of course all of those dozens of SM 2.x games already around didn't mean anything in Rollo-land.
Because it establishes the pattern of your blatant nV fanboyism. Like I said before you are simply incapable of producing an unbiased or rational appraisal of the situation. You also change your tune like a rising and falling wave.
The 6600GT SLI is waste. In general I think 6800GT/6800U SLI is too but that's a matter of opinion because I can certainly see the performance benefit of it. I personally would not tolerate the noise and I'd much rather buy faster single cards more frequently.
There's one right in this very forum (synching). As for general issues, browse the nVidia forums. I'm not going to waste my time because you appear to block out anything that could be classed as anti-nV and continue to post nonsensical arguments.
I'd be far more concerned if they took your advice. Fortunately after showing your past pro-nV arguments I don't think there's much danger of that happening.
LOL- you must have been hibernating during my X800XT PE period BFG.
BTW- pointing at one guys synch issues on two games is not really backing up your claims of "serious issues" very well now is it?
Do you know how much Far Cry I've played on SLI? Do you know how many hours I've watched demos run on it? I don't share his issue, and I've never heard of anyone else who did either.
You're "not going to waste your time" because you know you're wrong about this. Like I said before, you can go to any video card forum and see individual people with problems on games or hardware. People like me don't post "Hey! I ran Deus Ex2, Kingpin, and GTA Vice City last night on SLI and they all worked great!"- people usually post looking for help with their most often unique problems.
BTW- pointing at one guys synch issues on two games is not really backing up your claims of "serious issues" very well now is it?
Do you know how much Far Cry I've played on SLI? Do you know how many hours I've watched demos run on it? I don't share his issue, and I've never heard of anyone else who did either.
You're "not going to waste your time" because you know you're wrong about this. Like I said before, you can go to any video card forum and see individual people with problems on games or hardware. People like me don't post "Hey! I ran Deus Ex2, Kingpin, and GTA Vice City last night on SLI and they all worked great!"- people usually post looking for help with their most often unique problems.
HeroOfPellinor
Lifer
Could be typical. All you have to do is read the Hot Deal forum.
I went SLI because the upgrade cost was nothing and I got a dual channel 939 processor for that extra 3% performance gain and cooler temps.
Ah, so you're going to buy a $350 AGP card now? So if you upgrade later to a PCI-E board, you're now going to have to sell that card and it's value will be diminished compared to a PCI-E equivolent.
Yes and it'll hold a higher price than a mid-range card.
[/quote]
Sure, a higher value, but not a higher percentage of it's original purchase price.
The 9800 Pro wasn't selling for $400.
Tons. I just read a review the other day where the reviewer mentioned that his 9600 Pro was worth the same today as it was a year ago when he bought it.
BFG10K
Lifer
People give away hardware for free on hot deals?
You're going to need to explain this "at no cost" nonsense you keep talking about. And by dropping a second card in there you most certainly didn't get lower temps; compared to a single 6800GT you probably have higher temps and noise.
Instead to two slower PCIe cards? Sure.
I doubt that very much. In fact AGP cards tend to cost a tad more than PCIe cards these days.
And? That percentage went into getting higher performance. I mean if you're going down that track then buy yourself a cheap 1 MB PCI card for $5 and then sell it for the same price in three years and you'll have a 100% cost recovery. That must make it better than a 6600GT. :roll:
My price quote doesn't show the 6800GT at that price either.
$82 according to pricewatch; I highly doubt that's how much he originally paid for it.
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