Skylake Pentium G4400 Overclocking

[VirtualLarry]

Yeah, you're missing one key part:

A) I'm not refurbishing anything. You seemed to miss my point there.
B) This applies to businesses refurbishing computers and charging people for it. This does not apply to individuals selling used computers.

If you were not the original owner of the PC (defined as the person that accepted the OEM license agreement for that particular PC), then you're not selling a "used" PC. You're a refurbisher, accord to MS. (Edit: If you re-install Windows on there, that is.) The *original owner* can initiate a license transfer of the OEM OS, when bundled with the original OEM PC. Not just someone buying and selling PCs. Therefore, since you have no right to the OS listed on the COA, you have to buy another license in order to sell the PC as properly licensed for Windows.

Edit: To clarify, if you are just buying the used PC, and not refreshing / re-installing Windows on it, and are simply reselling it "As-is, with COA", then yes, as far as I can tell that's full legal.

Edit: If you're not "Refurbishing" the PC, then how can you compare your $3.22 desktop with outdated OS COA, with my $50 retail, refurbished, with shiny fresh new OS license and 1-year warranty? If the purchaser of your PC wants a fresh, newer, OS, and has to pay for it, how is that even a comparison? It's completely apples to oranges, there.

And considering an OS license to any newer version of Windows starts at $100 for the end-user, I stand by my Hot Deal thread for a $50 C2D working PC with a Win7 license and warranty.

That's like comparing a fix-er-upper car you see at a junkyard, with a tested, fixed, and warrantied "Certified Pre-Owned" vehicle at a dealer.

 

[2is]

Show me where I stated anywhere that Newegg lags (other that the videos on the product pages, if I don't use NoScript, on my quad-core, a year ago before I started using NoScript by default), on a "brand new processor"? I said there's NO noticable lag on my G3258 @ 4.0.

If you want to debate, fine, but leave out the straw-man arguments and putting words in my mouth.


Is each tab playing two video ads? Or just some Flash ads. Newegg may have toned down their site in the last year. The video ads, when they first started with the ads on the product page, were pretty obnoxious.

Anyways, by my estimation, it's chewing up one of your cores. Is that IE or Edge?

It's edge, I already stated it's using one core, but not even enough to ramp up to full speed. There is no strawman, i'm not the one making excuses for my hardware with every post. That would be you. It can be avoided, but it appears to be a fetish.

 

[VirtualLarry]

you can literally get a car full of computers the age you generally buy for $200 or less. I'm talking so many computers you may need a trailer to haul them all. That would serve your tinkering needs far better than one new under powered computer.

Oh, btw, thanks for the tip about the auctions, but I'm curious about the "age you generally buy" comment. I generally buy tech that's less than a year old, for the most part, unless it's a part I've had in stock for a while, like some H61 boards I got a year or two ago that were going obsolete, so I picked up some G1610 CPUs while they were still available new.

I don't generally buy refurb C2D rigs, I only bought a few to give away to people, when I realized that the rigs I was building to give away, would cost more than that, once I added the OS license.

 

[AtenRa]

I would take a new platform like the 1151 + Skylake Pentium over used SB/Ivy core i3 every day.

You get new platform with new features like M2 ports, more SATA 6 ports, USB 3.1 and way better iGPU performance and features than those HD2000/2500 found on the old SB-Ivy Core i3s.

Lower power consumption and better upgrade path.

edit: also Pentium G4400 supports 4K playback in case you need it.

 

[VirtualLarry]

It's edge, I already stated it's using one core, but not even enough to ramp up to full speed. There is no strawman, i'm not the one making excuses for my hardware with every post. That would be you. It can be avoided, but it appears to be a fetish.

I'm not the one putting down other people's choice of hardware, with some sort of overt prejudice.

Let's look at this objectively. One core of a 3.5Ghz 3770K IB quad-core, can handle 8 tabs of Newegg. Well, one core of the 3.3Ghz SKL dual-core is roughly the same performance. Yet, you claim that this "brand new hardware" will lag, and lambaste me for using it in a build for someone else, saying I'm irresponsible.

I have to ask, "Why do you hate the Pentium?". It seems that you have been seething with prejudice, putting down my choice of hardware throughout this discussion.

And I can't figure out why.

Do you attack people that buy AMD FX rigs, as vociferously?

 

[XavierMace]

Edit: If you're not "Refurbishing" the PC, then how can you compare your $3.22 desktop with outdated OS COA, with my $50 retail, refurbished, with shiny fresh new OS license and 1-year warranty? If the purchaser of your PC wants a fresh, newer, OS, and has to pay for it, how is that even a comparison? It's completely apples to oranges, there.

Outdated COA? "Fresh" OS? We're talking computers here, not fruit. A Windows 7 OEM COA is a Windows 7 OEM COA, they don't age, they don't expire, and they aren't registered to an individual. Microsoft has exactly zero way of telling who the original owner is and not ONCE have I had them ask me for a name when calling to reactivate an OEM key. If the computer is so old it has a Vista or XP key, I'm not going to bother touching it regardless. Selling somebody a system of that age is doing them a disservice.

Buying a new OEM Win7 COA for a system that already has a Win7 COA accomplishes exactly nothing beyond giving the seller an excuse to mark it up. It has a valid COA stuck to the case and functioning install. Nobody, and I mean nobody, cares what install media you used as long as the COA matches the install.

Can you show me ONE example of Microsoft telling an individual "Yes, you have a valid OEM key installed on the original computer but you didn't use the original CD to install it so it sucks to be you". This has been common practice since the XP days to get rid of all the OEM bloatware on factory PC's. I've been doing this for over a decade and I've NEVER heard of this being an issue.

Can you show me ONE example of Microsoft contacting an individual on eBay or Craigslist and questioning the licensing of the install? Again, there's a huge difference between an actual business selling these by the thousands and some guy selling a bunch of old computers on eBay/Craigslist.

That's like comparing a fix-er-upper car you see at a junkyard, with a tested, fixed, and warrantied "Certified Pre-Owned" vehicle at a dealer.

No, it's like comparing a CPO to an identical car purchased private party. How much is that warranty worth to you? But since you decided to go the CPO route, I'll mention that the age of these systems are past the age a dealer would certify it anyways.

 

[VirtualLarry]

A Windows 7 OEM COA is a Windows 7 OEM COA, they don't age, they don't expire, and they aren't registered to an individual. Microsoft has exactly zero way of telling who the original owner is and not ONCE have I had them ask me for a name when calling to reactivate an OEM key.

Buying a new OEM Win7 COA for a system that already has a Win7 COA accomplishes exactly nothing beyond giving the seller an excuse to mark it up. It has a valid COA stuck to the case and functioning install. Nobody, and I mean nobody, cares what install media you used as long as the COA matches the install.

As I quoted, from Microsoft, evidently, they do care.

And you're wrong about the software not being licensed to someone. The software license, that the COA represents, is licensed to the original person that agreed to the license agreement shown on-screen when the computer is first booted up. No-one else. If that user then chooses to sell their PC to someone else, then they can transfer that license. Oh, and I know someone that used to register all of their MS software licenses. Yes, they can be and are "registered" to an individual.

Can you show me ONE example of Microsoft telling an individual "Yes, you have a valid OEM key installed on the original computer but you didn't use the original CD to install it so it sucks to be you". This has been common practice since the XP days to get rid of all the OEM bloatware on factory PC's. I've been doing this for over a decade and I've NEVER heard of this being an issue.

Can you show me ONE example of Microsoft contacting an individual on eBay or Craigslist and questioning the licensing of the install? Again, there's a huge difference between an actual business selling these by the thousands and some guy selling a bunch of old computers on eBay/Craigslist.

While I think that MS "looks the other way" (or can't be bothered to waste the resources) on individual sellers on ebay/Craigslist, I do know someone that was sued by Microsoft, because their rules weren't followed to a "T". So, it does happen. If you start to move qty, I would pay attention to MS's "rules". I'm not trying to scare you, but they do conduct "stings" every once and a while.

 

[cbn]

Regarding new features mentioned in this thread, G4400 also has VT-d and AES-NI. (With Haswell, a person needed a Core i3 or greater to get these).

 

[2is]

I'm not the one putting down other people's choice of hardware, with some sort of overt prejudice.

Let's look at this objectively. One core of a 3.5Ghz 3770K IB quad-core, can handle 8 tabs of Newegg. Well, one core of the 3.3Ghz SKL dual-core is roughly the same performance. Yet, you claim that this "brand new hardware" will lag, and lambaste me for using it in a build for someone else, saying I'm irresponsible.

I have to ask, "Why do you hate the Pentium?". It seems that you have been seething with prejudice, putting down my choice of hardware throughout this discussion.

And I can't figure out why.

Do you attack people that buy AMD FX rigs, as vociferously?

I'm not claiming a 3.3GHz skylake dual core will lag loading newegg. Are you delusional? You are the one who brought up lag with newegg, not me.

Look, I certainly hope you found an entry level system that finally meets your needs, something that's eluded you for many years because these types of posts where you ask for advise/suggestions, get tons of it, follow none are getting repetitive. It was funny at first, but imagine someone telling a funny joke over and over again, its like "yeah yeah, we know where this is going" type of thing.

And yes, if someone purchased an FX processor today, I certainly would ask them wtf they were thinking. There are a few scenarios where that may make sense, like you already have a good quality board and DDR3 memory and managed to get an FX8 for cheap.

 

[VirtualLarry]

I'm not claiming a 3.3GHz skylake dual core will lag loading newegg. Are you delusional? You are the one who brought up lag with newegg, not me.

Here's what I said:

I noticed a marked difference, when I switched from my FIOS (24ms latency) to a Comcast (6-8ms latency) connection, for web browsing.

There is a CPU-dependent lag, in comparing my web browsing on my N2830 laptop, on heavy sites, like Newegg.com and Walmart.com . On my G3258 @ 4.0, Newegg is pretty-much instant, Walmart has some lag while it loads everything, but not too bad. On my N2830, Newegg has a slight lag, and Walmart can sometimes cause the browser window to turn white ("not responding") for a second or two, while things load.

But forum browsing, is pretty-much instant, on either machine, and the only improvement that I've seen with that, was moving to a lower-latency internet connection. Then, it was even "more instant".

Without NoScript, it would bring my quad-core to its knees. Two flash video ads, per product page, when you open like 8 tabs of product pages to compare, does that to you.

First, you didn't say 8 tabs, you said heavy sites like Newegg, meaning a simple visit to that page slows that processor down, so 8 tabs bringing your quad core to it's knees is not relevant because you weren't talking about your quad nor were you talking about 8 tabs. For a brand new processor to lag when loading newegg is ridiculous, for you to build systems like this for the general public and/or friends and family is irresponsible. It's like they're paying for your bad decision making. If it was for your own enjoyment, it still wouldn't make sense to most people but at least it's not affecting anyone else.

Second, my quad core seems to be doing just fine with 8 newegg tabs, by the looks of task manager, it's using 1 core and not even loading it enough for it to ramp up to my 4.2GHz OC.

Show me where I stated anywhere that Newegg lags (other that the videos on the product pages, if I don't use NoScript, on my quad-core, a year ago before I started using NoScript by default), on a "brand new processor"? I said there's NO noticable lag on my G3258 @ 4.0.

If you want to debate, fine, but leave out the straw-man arguments and putting words in my mouth.

Again, it was not I that claimed a SKL dual-core would lag on Newegg. No-where did I say that. YOU claimed that "For a brand-new processor to lag, when loading Newegg". YOU claimed that my new SKL would lag on Newegg. I wouldn't have made that claim, anyways, since I still haven't even recieved the CPU yet!

And you had the nerve to claim that you weren't making a straw-man argument? And then you have the nerve to make the claim based on your straw-man argument, that *I'm* delusional? Project much?

Or are you not capable of looking up model numbers, and you thought my description of "N2830" was somehow the same as "G4400"? (Hint: G4400 is a dual-core, 3.3Ghz SKL desktop CPU. N2830 is a dual-core 2+Ghz mobile Atom CPU.)

 

[2is]

Please quote me where I said skl would lag on newegg... Again, you said newegg lagged. I suppose i'll just congratulate you... After 3 years and several dozen attempts, you may have found that elusive build that can handle.... newegg.

 

[Magic Carpet]

I've installed the non-K OC beta BIOS onto a ASRock Z170 Extreme4. 4.3GHz and climbing with an i3-6100, results in a day or so.

Suddenly, that i3 got even more exciting. Jump in Larry.

 

[MajinCry]

Dear god. The number of pretentious savants de computér in this thread is just...Eeeew.

Not everybody wants to play Crysis 3 with their compy.

 

[Magic Carpet]

Dear god. The number of pretentious savants de computér in this thread is just...Eeeew.

Not everybody wants to play Crysis 3 with their compy.

Would you buy a PC of similar performance like the one in your sig again in 2015? Larry just did. In fact, I'd argue here that on the CPU front his unlocked HW is likely more capable than this SKL chip. Nobody talks about playing games here. Fingers crossed it might still have some OC capability in the light of recent news.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Please quote me where I said skl would lag on newegg...

Well, I certainly didn't. In fact, I don't believe I made any performance claims, other than a single core of a 3.3Ghz SKL would be similar to a 3.5Ghz IB core. I certainly didn't give any subjective performance evaluations, since I haven't even received the CPU yet.

Again, you said newegg lagged. I suppose i'll just congratulate you... After 3 years and several dozen attempts, you may have found that elusive build that can handle.... newegg.

On my N2830. An Atom. On loading, when Newegg has to load all of its scripts and web-bugs and ads and stuff.

And I mentioned, in my defense of calling the Newegg site "heavy", that at some point in the past, they were loading two Flash videos per product page. (This was back when they started adding ads to their product pages. It was a placeholder video, in place of a Flash ad, and IIRC, it was like a 720P or 1080P video, it was really heavy on a Core2Quad with 16 of them running. They don't appear to be running those videos anymore.)

 

[cbn]

In fact, I'd argue here that his unlocked G3258 is likely more capable than this SKL chip. Nobody talks about playing games here.

G3258 Pentium is a good chip, but I am wonder how much extra mileage a person get out of this G4400 with the AES-NI and Vt-d.

Maybe a Linux Mint desktop with SATA ports passed through to a virtualized NAS OS? (Open Media Vault, Rockstor, FreeNAS, unRAID, etc). The system mainly used as a NAS, but with the perk of using as a desktop as well.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Would you buy a PC of similar performance like the one in your sig again in 2015? Larry just did. In fact, I'd argue here that on the CPU front his unlocked HW is likely more capable than this SKL chip. Fingers crossed it might still have some OC capability in the light of recent news.

Interesting point. I would argue (based on my experiences with my Core2Quad Q9300 2.5Ghz quad-core), that the SKL 3.3Ghz dual-core, as well as my G3258 @ 4.0Ghz HSW dual-core, that both are noticeably faster in ST performance than my C2Q, and thus likely faster than his Phenom II X4 965BE CPU in ST as well. (Knowing that the C2Q 45nm and Phenom II X4 traded blows at equal clock speeds.)

Let's assume, for a moment, that my original overclock of my G3258 in my main rig, at 3.6Ghz, was the fastest "stable" OC for that CPU, and that my current setting of 4.0Ghz is "unstable" (because it is, sadly).

Would the 3.3Ghz SKL CPU, be faster or slower for web browsing with Waterfox (64-bit Firefox, with Intel-optimized compile), than a G3258 @ 3.6Ghz? CPU wise, it might be a smidgen slower, but the DDR4-2133 RAM is likely to be a bit faster than the DDR3-1333 that is the max supported by the G3258. (Yeah, it doesn't even support DDR3-1600. Sad, huh?)

 

[dave_the_nerd]

There just aren't that many differences between different-gen hardware platforms anymore. The familiarization argument is specious.

Sorry VL, but if you can't afford the i3 and 16GB of RAM that you know you want eventually (and will presumably upgrade to in a couple months), but you HAVE to build this so you're going ahead anyway... it sounds less like learning and more like retail therapy.

 

[dave_the_nerd]

Interesting point. I would argue (based on my experiences with my Core2Quad Q9300 2.5Ghz quad-core), that the SKL 3.3Ghz dual-core, as well as my G3258 @ 4.0Ghz HSW dual-core, that both are noticeably faster in ST performance than my C2Q, and thus likely faster than his Phenom II X4 965BE CPU in ST as well. (Knowing that the C2Q 45nm and Phenom II X4 traded blows at equal clock speeds.)

Let's assume, for a moment, that my original overclock of my G3258 in my main rig, at 3.6Ghz, was the fastest "stable" OC for that CPU, and that my current setting of 4.0Ghz is "unstable" (because it is, sadly).

Would the 3.3Ghz SKL CPU, be faster or slower for web browsing with Waterfox (64-bit Firefox, with Intel-optimized compile), than a G3258 @ 3.6Ghz? CPU wise, it might be a smidgen slower, but the DDR4-2133 RAM is likely to be a bit faster than the DDR3-1333 that is the max supported by the G3258. (Yeah, it doesn't even support DDR3-1600. Sad, huh?)

An i3 crushes all of the above in any even-a-little-bit multithreaded workload and does it with a stock cooler and no OC/tweaking needed.

 

[MajinCry]

Would you buy a PC of similar performance like the one in your sig again in 2015? Larry just did. In fact, I'd argue here that on the CPU front his unlocked HW is likely more capable than this SKL chip. Nobody talks about playing games here. Fingers crossed it might still have some OC capability in the light of recent news.

Again? I don't need a second desktop. And if I had the money to, I would rather spend the money on Chinese food.

But would I buy the computer in my sig, if I didn't have a desktop? Only thing I might change would be the processor and motherboard, supposing I can get something like an OC'd Xeon E5-1660 + motherboard for ~£140.

 

[dave_the_nerd]

Again? I don't need a second desktop. And if I had the money to, I would rather spend the money on Chinese food.

But would I buy the computer in my sig, if I didn't have a desktop? Only thing I might change would be the processor and motherboard, supposing I can get something like an OC'd Xeon E5-1660 + motherboard for ~£140.

Huh?

 

[LTC8K6]

Huh?

He's talking about the first one, a Sandy Bridge chip.

http://ark.intel.com/products/64620...-E5-1660-15M-Cache-3_30-GHz-0_0-GTs-Intel-QPI

 

[MajinCry]

He's talking about the first one, a Sandy Bridge chip.

http://ark.intel.com/products/64620...-E5-1660-15M-Cache-3_30-GHz-0_0-GTs-Intel-QPI

Aye, figured that is the most likely 6 core intel proccy that'd be gotten for the cheap. Not gonna happen, but eh.

If I'm to upgrade from my trusty 965, I not only want way more single threaded performance, I want more cores. To get the former, I'd have to overclock pretty heavily. For the latter, that rules out the consumer intel chips. And I ain't gonna go breaking the bank, either, which rules out the upgrade entirely.

...Yeah, I've gone off topic. Mah bad.

 

[2is]

Well, I certainly didn't. In fact, I don't believe I made any performance claims, other than a single core of a 3.3Ghz SKL would be similar to a 3.5Ghz IB core. I certainly didn't give any subjective performance evaluations, since I haven't even received the CPU yet.

On my N2830. An Atom. On loading, when Newegg has to load all of its scripts and web-bugs and ads and stuff.

And I mentioned, in my defense of calling the Newegg site "heavy", that at some point in the past, they were loading two Flash videos per product page. (This was back when they started adding ads to their product pages. It was a placeholder video, in place of a Flash ad, and IIRC, it was like a 720P or 1080P video, it was really heavy on a Core2Quad with 16 of them running. They don't appear to be running those videos anymore.)

I've never had a problem with newegg site, I've never heard anyone refer to it as "heavy" in all my years I've been using it until your post. Coincidently, you're the only person I know of who routinely asks for advise when he's already made up his mind to buy some of the lost end products he can get his hands on. I don't think it's coincidence.

 

[crashtech]

I bet Larry has helped 10x the posters than the smart guys relentlessly bashing his choice.