Skylake Pentium G4400 Overclocking

[VirtualLarry]

Larry, would you mind benching your new rig with Cinebench 11.5 so I can add it to the dual core list? It could really use some more Skylake results.

Sure, when I get the parts. Might be another week, when I ordered them, Newegg showed three separate order numbers, so I expect that some of the parts are being drop-shipped.

 

[Maxima1]

You say you don't want to spend more because of not needing it, but what's up with all these rigs and crap? You've bought a bunch of ssds, laptops, desktop parts, etc. for what?

 

[VirtualLarry]

You say you don't want to spend more because of not needing it, but what's up with all these rigs and crap? You've bought a bunch of ssds, laptops, desktop parts, etc. for what?

"For Great Justice!!!".

No, really. For fun.

Edit: Just reflecting on two posts from the Skylake thread.
1) iGPU becomes disabled via Intel drivers in Windows, once BCLK is overclocked.
2) TH OCed a G4400 to 4.2Ghz. Problem is, it required a $240 Z170 mobo. When / if this BCLK overclocking filters down to H110 mobos, then I guess I can consider it.

Given the above, I guess it doesn't matter that I didn't get the HD 530 iGPU, because it would just end up disabled anyways, should I eventually OC.

 

[TheELF]

Thanks for confirming. I was kind of hoping that they would, seeing as how most (all?) Haswell Pentium and above chips have it.

Intel released a driver last year giving quicksync to all (at least) desktop cpus,
even my celly has quicksync ~250FPS avg. converting,that's decompressing and recompressing, a h264 into h264,people tend to forget that decompressing uses up cycles as well.
(slightly o/c'ed igpu)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zsTI-625Na0

 

[Arachnotronic]

So, 100% more money, for 10% more performance? IST at their finest.

Dude, you generate tons of money for Intel. You constantly buy new CPUs, chipsets, etc. I think it's incredibly ironic that you think that the "Intel Sales Team" (which doesn't actually exist on these forums) is trying to pressure you into spending more on Intel gear.

By buying a nice fast chip today and using it for 4-5 years, Intel would get a lot less revenue during that period.

 

[Ken g6]

Problem is, it required a $240 Z170 mobo.

I think the cheap Z170s will do overclocking too, at some point. Not sure about other chipsets, though. :\

 

[Maxima1]

"For Great Justice!!!".

No, really. For fun.

Edit: Just reflecting on two posts from the Skylake thread.
1) iGPU becomes disabled via Intel drivers in Windows, once BCLK is overclocked.
2) TH OCed a G4400 to 4.2Ghz. Problem is, it required a $240 Z170 mobo. When / if this BCLK overclocking filters down to H110 mobos, then I guess I can consider it.

Given the above, I guess it doesn't matter that I didn't get the HD 530 iGPU, because it would just end up disabled anyways, should I eventually OC.

Larry, it just seems rather odd to me. You get more fun/$ out of this than anything else you could buy? It would seem to me that someone who isn't making much and tight on money would want to maximize their utility. I don't see much fun in slow CPUs and redundancy, etc. but different strokes for different folks I guess.

 

[RussianSensation]

My earlier comment was only partially ironic, I truly believe you enjoy tinkering with the low end machines, getting the faster components that just make everything work would simply deny you off most the fun you're having with this hobby.

Ya, to this date I cannot get Larry's CPU/platform upgrade paths. To this date he has not built any rig that even comes close to an i5 2500K/2600K OC and those are 5-year-old CPUs once we hit January 2016. While the i5 2500K OC is struggling in some games, i7 2600K OC is still hanging in there so it wouldn't be surprising if it can last another 12-18 months. This is one of those clear examples where it's way better to just buy a good CPU to start with instead of wasting time, $ and headaches/lack of satisfaction buying low end garbage over the next 5-6 years just to catch up. With MicroCenter having $250 i7 4790K and 16GB DDR4 2133-2400 going for $71-72, this is all he'd need for the next 5 years given his CPU/GPU upgrade history. I'll never get it....

 

[crashtech]

I get the fun of having something new, even if it is low end. Perhaps this is Larry's way of gaining hands-on experience with the newest platform on the cheap.

 

[moonbogg]

There is a reason for it. OP is not stupid.

However, I must add the following:
This purchase causes me anxiety. It does not compute for me. I don't understand why someone would torture themselves with such a product. I feel upset and anxious at the thought of someone buying this. I don't like this one bit.

 

[Magic Carpet]

I only had enough $$$ to scrounge up this budget rig. Otherwise, if I wanted an i3 and 16GB of RAM, I would have had to wait 1-2 more months.

Yeah, but why would you need another dual-core rig, if you're going to build it for someone, it's actually better to make it more expensive, but faster at the same time. 2C/2T Desktop CPUs are done really. I have plenty of old/slow gear too but I don't spend money on it, I usually get it from upgrades I do for the other people. Now, I could understand if there was something else influencing your decision making, like a different form-factor for example. But if it's the same full-size box, why bother building a slow one today, might as well get a tablet for the same price, but at least with that you get portability and convenience of carrying it around with you.

You do it for fun. Okay. I don't have a problem with that. Here is what I would buy if I needed a desktop system today with modern features.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820148865
$90 RAM

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128842&cm_re=Z170-_-13-128-842-_-Product
$100 MOBO

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...0002&cm_re=i3_6100-_-2MN-0004-00002-_-Product
$130 CPU

I am sure, that waiting a couple of months wouldn't represent a huge deal to you, because we all know how many computers you have to play with

 

[krumme]

VL is having more fun than us - staring at our windows upgrade for 3 min to see how fast our ssd is.
I kind of understand it. New stuff is important be it sidegrade whatever. I wish i could find joy in the same stuff.
But enthusiasm is also complaning your ati 4850 gfx is moved to legacy status
VL masters it all.
I think you guys are just envious

 

[VirtualLarry]

Ya, to this date I cannot get Larry's CPU/platform upgrade paths. To this date he has not built any rig that even comes close to an i5 2500K/2600K OC and those are 5-year-old CPUs once we hit January 2016.

I did almost get a 2500K at MC, rather than my Thuban 1045T, which at one point I had OCed to 3.5Ghz without Turbo. I had a thread about that one too.

 

[VirtualLarry]

There is a reason for it. OP is not stupid.

Maybe "eccentric"?

However, I must add the following:
This purchase causes me anxiety. It does not compute for me. I don't understand why someone would torture themselves with such a product. I feel upset and anxious at the thought of someone buying this. I don't like this one bit.

Buying cheap PC parts causes you anxiety? I'm sorry to hear that. Relax and listen to this music video, it might help you understand.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qpMvS1Q1sos
"It's all about the Pentiums"

 

[2is]

There is a reason for it. OP is not stupid.

However, I must add the following:
This purchase causes me anxiety. It does not compute for me. I don't understand why someone would torture themselves with such a product. I feel upset and anxious at the thought of someone buying this. I don't like this one bit.

Seems no one knows the reason, not even the OP. He buys crap, defends the purchase, creates a thread 3 months later (tops) complaining about the purchase and asking for advise about more junk hardware, doesn't like what is being said, defends junk hardware, purchases junk hardware. Creates a thread 3 months later (tops) complaining about the purchase and asking advise about more junk hardware, doesn't like what is being said, defends junk hardware, purchases junk hardware. Creates a thread 3 months later (tops) complaining about the purchase and asking advise about more junk hardware, doesn't like what is being said, defends junk hardware, purchases junk hardware. Creates a thread 3 months later (tops) complaining about the purchase and asking advise about more junk hardware, doesn't like what is being said, defends junk hardware, purchases junk hardware. Creates a thread 3 months later (tops) complaining about the purchase and asking advise about more junk hardware, doesn't like what is being said, defends junk hardware, purchases junk hardware.

It's to the point I can read the title and know who the author is.

 

[Arachnotronic]

VL is having more fun than us - staring at our windows upgrade for 3 min to see how fast our ssd is.
I kind of understand it. New stuff is important be it sidegrade whatever. I wish i could find joy in the same stuff.
But enthusiasm is also complaning your ati 4850 gfx is moved to legacy status
VL masters it all.
I think you guys are just envious

Speak for yourself. I have a ton of fun using the system in my sig (as well as the other ones that I don't have listed).

 

[CHADBOGA]

Seems no one knows the reason, not even the OP. He buys crap, defends the purchase, creates a thread 3 months later (tops) complaining about the purchase and asking for advise about more junk hardware, doesn't like what is being said, defends junk hardware, purchases junk hardware. Creates a thread 3 months later (tops) complaining about the purchase and asking advise about more junk hardware, doesn't like what is being said, defends junk hardware, purchases junk hardware. Creates a thread 3 months later (tops) complaining about the purchase and asking advise about more junk hardware, doesn't like what is being said, defends junk hardware, purchases junk hardware. Creates a thread 3 months later (tops) complaining about the purchase and asking advise about more junk hardware, doesn't like what is being said, defends junk hardware, purchases junk hardware. Creates a thread 3 months later (tops) complaining about the purchase and asking advise about more junk hardware, doesn't like what is being said, defends junk hardware, purchases junk hardware.

It's to the point I can read the title and know who the author is.

A nice summary.

 

[RussianSensation]

I get the fun of having something new, even if it is low end. Perhaps this is Larry's way of gaining hands-on experience with the newest platform on the cheap.

I have a personal solution for that -- I find YouTube channels that test crappy low-end PC parts against and after I watch them I realize, I realize I'd rather not save $100-200 on something that's garbage/DOA out of the box. The cost of upgrading from those parts ends up more costly long-term since you just threw $100-200 on crappy parts as a sunk cost. Now you are faced with the hassle of reselling crappy parts and going back and buying what you should have bought in the first place....I don't find this to be fun.

Is an SSD upgrade worth it or is mechanical HDD almost as good? (Spoiler: a modern rig built around a mechanical HDD is SLOW).

Is GTX980Ti faster than R7 370 when paired with an Athlon 860K? (Spoiler: No).

Can you play games on an GT610? (Spoiler: get an Xbox 360 instead).

Is it worth buying budget $50 discrete GPUs and are they better than integrated graphics on AMD A10 7850K? (Spoiler: short story - all new budget GPUs below R9 270/270X/GTX750 are trash for even basic modern games -- don't bother wasting $).

Find a YouTube PC channel you like and you can literally LIVE and BREATHE feeling what it's like to own crappy PC components without having to spend even $1. :wub:

I did almost get a 2500K at MC, rather than my Thuban 1045T, which at one point I had OCed to 3.5Ghz without Turbo. I had a thread about that one too.

Let me help you put things in a different light for you.

You spend $100-150 on outdated parts that will be hard to resell and no one wants.

Core i7 4790K $250
Z97 mobo $100
You can even go with 8GB DDR3 as most games don't benefit from 16.

Even in 3 years from now, it'll be possible to resell these parts for $200. Your TCO (total cost of ownership) is low. If you start looking at PC ownership like that, it becomes easy to justify a December 2014 R9 290 for $200 because 12 months later, it still sells for $180+ in the used market. TCO is just $20 in this case. The real challenge of PC hardware building for those on a budget is trying to build a fast PC while minimizing TCO. Buying lowest end parts usually fails to achieve the optimal equilibrium of performance and low TCO.

Now let's go one level up: $360 i7 6700K + $150 mobo + $100 16GB DDR4 3200. In 5 years from now, even if you resell this kit for 30% of its value => ($360+150+$100) - (30% * (360+150+100)) = $610 - $183 = $427

$427 / 5 = $85 per year to own a very capable PC platform over 5 years. Better yet, there is a high likelihood you may be able to re-use 16GB DDR4 3200 in 5 years from now. Also, my 30% estimate is pretty conservative. Looking at used prices of i7 2600K/3770K, it's going to cost more $ to buy an i7 2600K/3770K + mobo + 8-16GB DDR3 kit today than $183.

 

[crashtech]

I have a personal solution for that -- I find YouTube channels that test crappy low-end PC parts against and after I watch them I realize, I realize I'd rather not save $100-200 on something that's garbage/DOA out of the box. The cost of upgrading from those parts ends up more costly long-term since you just threw $100-200 on crappy parts as a sunk cost. Now you are faced with the hassle of reselling crappy parts and going back and buying what you should have bought in the first place....I don't find this to be fun.

Is an SSD upgrade worth it or is mechanical HDD almost as good? (Spoiler: a modern rig built around a mechanical HDD is SLOW).

Is GTX980Ti faster than R7 370 when paired with an Athlon 860K? (Spoiler: No).

Can you play games on an GT610? (Spoiler: get an Xbox 360 instead).

Is it worth buying budget $50 discrete GPUs and are they better than integrated graphics on AMD A10 7850K? (Spoiler: all budget GPUs below R9 270/270X/GTX750 are trash for even basic modern games).

Find a YouTube PC channel you like and you can literally LIVE and BREATHE feeling what it's like to own crappy PC components without having to spend even $1. :wub:

If that works for you, fine and dandy. But I think Larry does some of the same stuff I do, which is being the boots on the ground actually building PCs for others on a regular basis. While videos and online tutorials and other info can really be a life saver, there just isn't any real substitute for hands on experience.

 

[Arachnotronic]

If that works for you, fine and dandy. But I think Larry does some of the same stuff I do, which is being the boots on the ground actually building PCs for others on a regular basis. While videos and online tutorials and other info can really be a life saver, there just isn't any real substitute for hands on experience.

I like getting my hands on hardware too which is why I offer to spec out and build systems for friends & family. But I don't buy gear "speculatively" in the hopes that somebody will buy it off me...

 

[2is]

I have a personal solution for that -- I find YouTube channels that test crappy low-end PC parts against and after I watch them I realize, I realize I'd rather not save $100-200 on something that's garbage/DOA out of the box. The cost of upgrading from those parts ends up more costly long-term since you just threw $100-200 on crappy parts as a sunk cost. Now you are faced with the hassle of reselling crappy parts and going back and buying what you should have bought in the first place....I don't find this to be fun.

Is an SSD upgrade worth it or is mechanical HDD almost as good? (Spoiler: a modern rig built around a mechanical HDD is SLOW).

Is GTX980Ti faster than R7 370 when paired with an Athlon 860K? (Spoiler: No).

Can you play games on an GT610? (Spoiler: get an Xbox 360 instead).

Is it worth buying budget $50 discrete GPUs and are they better than integrated graphics on AMD A10 7850K? (Spoiler: short story - all new budget GPUs below R9 270/270X/GTX750 are trash for even basic modern games -- don't bother wasting $).

Find a YouTube PC channel you like and you can literally LIVE and BREATHE feeling what it's like to own crappy PC components without having to spend even $1. :wub:

Interestingly enough, I can see some enjoyment in older, crappy hardware, but not when it means actually paying for it. I have a bunch of older Core 2 based CPU's, tons of DDR2 memory, bunch of HDD's, and video cards. Every once in a while I get bored and figure it'll be fun to bring these parts back to life. I put them together, install the OS and then... I wonder why I just wasted a couple hours of my life when I realize it's too slow to really do much with and now I've created a mess I need to clean up.

But to actually pay for it? That would suck any small amount of enjoyment right out of it and add depression to the fact since I just lost money for parts that'll end up costing me more to ship then they're worth and I'll I've really accomplished is add to my collection of crap.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Seems no one knows the reason, not even the OP. He buys crap, defends the purchase, creates a thread 3 months later (tops) complaining about the purchase and asking for advise about more junk hardware(repeat)

It's to the point I can read the title and know who the author is.

Well, you're entitled to your opinion. Even if you do think Intel desktop CPUs are "junk hardware".

 

[2is]

Well, you're entitled to your opinion. Even if you do think Intel desktop CPUs are "junk hardware".

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...57&IsNodeId=1&bop=And&Order=PRICE&PageSize=30

There are 86 products in that list at the time of my checking, some of them are indeed junk, many of them aren't. You have a choice, and you're making the wrong ones. The fact that in the course of a year, you replace your own equipment multiple times because you're dissatisfied with it, takes this beyond the realm of mere opinion. Yeah you can reply and say how you've been happy with your purchases, but you aren't fooling anyone but yourself at this point.

 

[crashtech]

I feel it would be best for us to heed the words of the venerable mfenn as quoted in Larry's sig.

 

[VirtualLarry]

But I don't buy gear "speculatively" in the hopes that somebody will buy it off me...

*cough* "a bad habit, trying to break it" *cough*.

I just get the "urge to build" a little more often than you folks do. I guess it's like the "one night stand" of PC building. You'all are urging me to go all-in, on a high-end PC marriage for five years. I'm more interested in new experiences every month, LOL.

I may have someone to do a budget build for, this or next month. I sort of used that as my excuse to get my feet wet on SKL.

I am a bit personally curious, how a 3.3Ghz SKL dual-core, with DDR4-2133 compares with a Haswell G3258 (at both stock, and OCed to 4.0Ghz) with DDR3-1333.

Plus, I haven't been 100% happy with the G3258 since I flashed the BIOS to F6, and found out I could nearly effortlessly clock higher than before. (Before was 3.6Ghz, wasn't fully stable at 3.8Ghz, wouldn't boot Win7 at higher than that reliably. After was 4.0Ghz, could boot Win7 at 4.2Ghz. But it doesn't seem fully distributed-computing stable, even after cranking the vcore from 1.200v to 1.300v.)

Edit: Don't get me wrong. I am in no way unhappy with the performance of my G3258, per se, rather it's the stability at 4.0Ghz that bothers me. I like 100% rock-stable rigs, that could run OCCT's PSU Test 24/7 for months on end. (Prime95 + Furmark instead, if you like.)

It bothers me that my main rig reboots about once every 2-3 weeks.

My other G3258, I've kept on the factory F5 BIOS, and it only clocked to 3.6Ghz stable. So far it hasn't crashed, but one time, the 7950 went wonky completely at idle.

Most sites, when G3258 non-Z OCing was covered, got their samples up to 4.3-4.5Ghz or more. But they weren't doing distributed computing, either, for weeks on end. So I think that they weren't truly stable (talking month-long Prime95 stable here) at those clocks. Sure, it will boot Windows, and run a game or benchmark or two... but I still think that they sensationalized the G3258 a bit more than maybe they should have, as far as clock speeds go.

I'm hoping that the G4400, at stock clocks, will be rock-solid stable, and at least competitive in performance to my G3258 @ 3.6Ghz.

Not to mention, most newer mobo BIOSes for non-Z boards disabled the OCing feature for this CPU, as per Intel "demands".