Originally posted by: boomerang
Originally posted by: Common Courtesy
We may be in the fifth month of debate.
Yet there are multiple version in the House and a few more in the Senate.
Each has different guidelines, rules, punishments, favoritisms, etc.
Obama himself, has not stated the details of what he wants. The devil is in the details!; and no one has been able to identify all of them. There is plenty of vague wording.
to say that something will be detailed later, implemented later or that someone will be appointed to study/implement is passing the buck/responsibility. Given government and lawyers, unless something is specifically called out as excluded, it will eventually be included when preparing a pork pie.
Let the house come up with a properly documented detailed bill and also one in the Senate.
Then the feedback and dissection can begin in earnest and the flaws exposed to be fixed or removed.
This is a very reasonable post. But ......... the status quo of this administration thus far has been to ram legislation through at the speed of light. The public was lied to about transparency, lied to about partisanship, lied to about far, far too many things. This is at the heart of the discourse IMO. That and how to pay for it.
Once bitten twice shy. I'm for health care reform, but this my way or the highway demeanor of the left needs to stop. For those that say that compromise has already been reached in some areas, well true, but look what lengths had to be gone to for that to happen. There is very little partisanship going on in regards to health care reform. Many, many folks are deeply and rightfully concerned that a final version of the bill will be rammed through as has been the status quo to date.
The left tries to ram this down the throat of the people of this country, the people ask to have some time to look at it and give some input. The answer is no. They ask again louder - no. They start screaming and the left listens, but then labels them with whatever demeaning names they are tossing about at that time frame. Astroturf, Nazi's etc. Then the left wonders why it's such an uphill battle.
Then the country is threatened with putting it through using reconciliation! Talk about dumb and dumber. Who likes to be dictated to like a child?
It would be fucking comical if it wasn't such a damned serious situation.
The parallels with the civil rights movement are pretty strong. There, too, a central issue was the opponents not exactly opposing the goal, but just not wanting it 'rushed'.
In fact, 'rushing' was a central point of discussion - the timing was the debate it seems more than the actual policy.
Any incident that could be used to attack the civil rights supporters for recklessness, pushing too hard, not getting the 'right' approach, all served to fight the progress.
No one was 'against' civil rights, if you listen to them, they just did't want some leftists' agenda 'rammed down their throats' and such - so just slow down the rush.
Civil rights had been an issue for the century after slavery was abolished; universal health care has been an issue for half a century since Truman was interested in it.
But don't rush it.
It's not that either issue doesn't 'have a point' - a 'bad' civil rights bill is still bad, and a bad healthcare bill is still bad. But in both cases, the politics of delay were to oppose.
There were horror stories and fears if segregation ended, and there are horor stories and fears if the government passes healthcare reform.
But even more than in the civil rights era, when the opposition was more about the public than about Kennedy (or Johnson), the right seems to have decided that defeating healthcare reform is less about the issue, than about their battle to get power back - it's about 'beating Obama and the rest of the Democrats'.
Newt Gingrich said in 1994 he would use opposition to the Clinton healthcare effort as the springboard to get Republicans back in power, and he did.
So, we need to watch that the call for 'being careful' isn't cover for actually opposing getting something passed - which is what the Repulbicans would love to see, it seems, even while they can hardly dispute the need for real reform as the halthcare system is in crisis.
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