Single Payer Health Care NOW! Pass Teddy-Care.

[SammyJr]

Originally posted by: QuantumPion
So in memory of Ted Kennedy, whom received top-notch million-dollar private elite health care all his life, you want to pass a bill which would de facto make illegal such options to everyone else (but still available to the political elites, of course). Sounds about par for the course.

What part of single payer don't you understand? It means public insurance, private providers. Hospitals, doctors, clinics, surgery centers, and all that would continue to be private.

 

[SammyJr]

Originally posted by: JeffreyLebowski
That's the problem with liberals. You think with emotions, not facts.

Pot, meet kettle. I seem to remember the "Smoking Gun" being a big scary thing back in the runup to the Iraq war.

What in the world makes you think that some shmuk that won't work and is slinging crack to children should get free health care on mine or your dime. Because that's what's going to happen when "universal health care" is passed.
Fuck them. If they can't make it in the world then they don't make it. It's not my job or anyone elses job except their parents to pull their asses out of the mud and set them on the right track in life. It is definitely not the governments role to do that.

That's already been in place for decades. Its called Medicaid.

We're fighting so that the schmuck who DOES work can get health insurance despite his preexisting conditions and low income. You do realize that there are people who are too rich for Medicaid yet too poor to buy any meaningful insurance, right?

 

[JeffreyLebowski]

Originally posted by: SammyJr

Originally posted by: QuantumPion
So in memory of Ted Kennedy, whom received top-notch million-dollar private elite health care all his life, you want to pass a bill which would de facto make illegal such options to everyone else (but still available to the political elites, of course). Sounds about par for the course.

What part of single payer don't you understand? It means public insurance, private providers. Hospitals, doctors, clinics, surgery centers, and all that would continue to be private.

The institutions that provide the care will still be private for now. He is saying that Chappiquidick Ted had better insurance and all his buddies in Congress will have better insurance than the subjects they are trying to force to have substandard insurance. Congress persons would not be subject to the "public option" and remain on their version of health care which covers anything and everything. They can have surgery, you and I can take a pill.
There is a sentiment with many people in DC that they are the elite and better than the citizens of this nation. This is how Communist Russia was. I know several people that lived through Stalin and Khrushchev and see scary parallels to what's happening in America now. The attempt to crush individual pursuits and make people sacrifice for a collective good may sound noble, but in reality it doesn't work. It creates animosity and hatred. I and many other people worked hard to get where they are and for what they have and I'll be damned if I have to give it to someone else under threat.

If "universal health care" is passed I gaurantee it won't be the last thing they do to try and bring up the lazy and dumb and bring down the successful and contributors to society.

 

[Budmantom]

Teddy-Care

The care that would never have been good enough for any of the Kennedy's but it's alright for the rest of you fools.

 

[Budmantom]

Originally posted by: fallout man
Harvey, I disagree.

The best thing that can be done is to wrap "socialist" single-payer government healthcare in the U.S. flag. The 'ol glory.

Let's call it "Patriot Care," or "Freedom Health Act," or even "The Towelheads Will Hate Us For Our Healthcare Freedom Act."

How 'bout it?

What about the kids, are we doing it for the kids?

 

[BigDH01]

Originally posted by: JeffreyLebowski

Originally posted by: Perknose

Originally posted by: dali71
I think I just threw up in my mouth a little bit :disgust:

Sorry, but your insurer reports that's a pre-existing condition with you.



Oh, not the political puke you habitually carry around in your mouth, for that they have a 12 big chunk deductible. But your stupidity, it's definitely a pre-existing condition, apparently there's years and years of incontrovertible evidence for that.

Well it can be said that anyone that supports the Teddy-Care plan now is a dumb ass as well. Someone died so you should support this political ploy now. That's the problem with liberals. You think with emotions, not facts.
What in the world makes you think that some shmuk that won't work and is slinging crack to children should get free health care on mine or your dime. Because that's what's going to happen when "universal health care" is passed.
Fuck them. If they can't make it in the world then they don't make it. It's not my job or anyone elses job except their parents to pull their asses out of the mud and set them on the right track in life. It is definitely not the governments role to do that.

Sigh

The poor already get health insurance. It's the working class that we are concerned about.

You can correct your false beliefs by visiting this study put together by the Federal Reserve Bank of Dallas. In 2001-2002, 71% of the uninsured were employed either full-time or part-time. I'm sick and tired of the hyperbole. Go do some research for yourself and stop parroting every other idiot out there.

However, at companies offering health insurance, the enrollment rate continues to be quite high, varying between 80 and 90 percent. Because most of those who are offered insurance choose to enroll, this does not go very far in explaining the level of uninsured. The most important reason why workers lack health care coverage is that many firms do not offer the benefit. Three in four uninsured workers are not offered health insurance coverage.

A potential explanation for some firms not offering health insurance coverage is simply that healthy workers value cash compensation over insurance coverage. These workers choose firms that do not offer health insurance so they can get higher wages. Another reason could be low demand in these firms for coverage simply because the workers are younger or relatively healthy.[7] A third explanation is that firms may find it too costly to offer coverage, perhaps because they?re operating with a disproportionate number of minimum-wage workers.[8] Even if the employees would choose coverage, these small firms would find it hard to attract affordable group insurance coverage if their risk pool is not diverse enough, inviting an ?adverse selection? that raises rates (see box titled ?What Is Adverse Selection??).

Indeed, we do see a negative correlation between offering health coverage and firm size and average wage. Three in four firms with one to nine employees where the average earnings are less than $10,000 a year do not offer health insurance coverage. In contrast, almost all firms with more than 100 employees and average earnings over $30,000 a year offer health insurance coverage. Firms with older employees are also less likely to offer coverage.[9]

Small businesses have a small group of people to cover which means that, under our current model, the cost of insuring becomes vastly more expensive. This is basic actuarial science. Our current model hurts small businesses. It punishes them for being small. This is not an emotion, it's a fact.

In addition, if you really praise at the alter of Laissez-faire economics and the perfect market, you should welcome UHC with open arms. The healthcare market itself will never give us the efficiency results we would expect from a free market due to massive violations of the requirements of a perfect market, but forcing everyone to have health care increases labor factor mobility, which is of utter importance considering the relative mobility of capital, both within our country and between nations. If you want to take a classic liberal stance, than at least act like it. Don't feed me more of your paranoid hyperbole.

 

[SammyJr]

Originally posted by: JeffreyLebowski

Originally posted by: SammyJr

Originally posted by: QuantumPion
So in memory of Ted Kennedy, whom received top-notch million-dollar private elite health care all his life, you want to pass a bill which would de facto make illegal such options to everyone else (but still available to the political elites, of course). Sounds about par for the course.

What part of single payer don't you understand? It means public insurance, private providers. Hospitals, doctors, clinics, surgery centers, and all that would continue to be private.

The institutions that provide the care will still be private for now. He is saying that Chappiquidick Ted had better insurance and all his buddies in Congress will have better insurance than the subjects they are trying to force to have substandard insurance. Congress persons would not be subject to the "public option" and remain on their version of health care which covers anything and everything. They can have surgery, you and I can take a pill.

You sound jealous. Why don't you get a job with a Government employer at the Fed, State, County, or Local level and you'll have the same kind of benefits that Kennedy enjoyed.

People who will take the public option are people who would get a better deal from the public option. Government Employee health insurance is top notch because they employ so many people and benefit from a huge risk pool. People with this or similar insurance wouldn't benefit from switching to the public plan, but there are a lot of people with inferior insurance or none at all.

Conversely, I know the Republican plan is for people to buy individual private insurance with a high deductible and contribute to an HSA. Why don't the Republicans opt out of their gold plated plan and go the catastrophic plus HSA route? Of course, that wouldn't be a fair comparison because they're paid well enough to contribute to an HSA....

There is a sentiment with many people in DC that they are the elite and better than the citizens of this nation. This is how Communist Russia was. I know several people that lived through Stalin and Khrushchev and see scary parallels to what's happening in America now. The attempt to crush individual pursuits and make people sacrifice for a collective good may sound noble, but in reality it doesn't work. It creates animosity and hatred. I and many other people worked hard to get where they are and for what they have and I'll be damned if I have to give it to someone else under threat.

Where does this thought process come from? Are there no rich people in Canada? In the UK? In Germany? In Australia? In Japan?

Doing collective good benefits from economies of scale. If we need something like schooling, fire, police, military, etc., we can do it together for less cost. Imagine having to hire Blackwater on your own dime if there wasn't publicly funded miltiary and police. Imagine having to pay a toll every mile because there weren't publicly funded roads.

If "universal health care" is passed I gaurantee it won't be the last thing they do to try and bring up the lazy and dumb and bring down the successful and contributors to society.

Contributors have always borne the burden. Talk to any parent who has supported a deadbeat kid. Its the order of the world. You either support them, let them starve, or shoot them. You pick.

 

[StageLeft]

Has anybody yet explained why congress would be exempt from the new health system they are trying to promote or is it a myth/talking point? What are the real facts? I have tried to google it but it's full of crap.

 

[SammyJr]

Originally posted by: Skoorb
Has anybody yet explained why congress would be exempt from the new health system they are trying to promote or is it a myth/talking point? What are the real facts? I have tried to google it but it's full of crap.

If there's any truth to it, its because they have the Federal Employees Health Insurance system and that system would be the basis of the so-called Health Insurance Exchange. Its not because they're exempt, its because they're already in it.

Just a guess, anyway, but it makes sense to me.

 

[lupi]

Originally posted by: SammyJr

Originally posted by: JeffreyLebowski
That's the problem with liberals. You think with emotions, not facts.

Pot, meet kettle. I seem to remember the "Smoking Gun" being a big scary thing back in the runup to the Iraq war.

What in the world makes you think that some shmuk that won't work and is slinging crack to children should get free health care on mine or your dime. Because that's what's going to happen when "universal health care" is passed.
Fuck them. If they can't make it in the world then they don't make it. It's not my job or anyone elses job except their parents to pull their asses out of the mud and set them on the right track in life. It is definitely not the governments role to do that.

That's already been in place for decades. Its called Medicaid.

We're fighting so that the schmuck who DOES work can get health insurance despite his preexisting conditions and low income. You do realize that there are people who are too rich for Medicaid yet too poor to buy any meaningful insurance, right?

No they're not. If they truly just wanted a health insurance regulation revamp bill there would be minimal dissent to the effort.

 

[brencat]

Originally posted by: JeffreyLebowski
That's the problem with liberals. You think with emotions, not facts.
What in the world makes you think that some shmuk that won't work and is slinging crack to children should get free health care on mine or your dime. Because that's what's going to happen when "universal health care" is passed.
Fuck them. If they can't make it in the world then they don't make it. It's not my job or anyone elses job except their parents to pull their asses out of the mud and set them on the right track in life. It is definitely not the governments role to do that.

+1 and nomination for best post of the week!!

 

[BigDH01]

Originally posted by: JeffreyLebowski

There is a sentiment with many people in DC that they are the elite and better than the citizens of this nation. This is how Communist Russia was. I know several people that lived through Stalin and Khrushchev and see scary parallels to what's happening in America now. The attempt to crush individual pursuits and make people sacrifice for a collective good may sound noble, but in reality it doesn't work. It creates animosity and hatred. I and many other people worked hard to get where they are and for what they have and I'll be damned if I have to give it to someone else under threat.

If "universal health care" is passed I gaurantee it won't be the last thing they do to try and bring up the lazy and dumb and bring down the successful and contributors to society.

Judging by your posts, their may be some truth that the elite know better than you.

I would love to talk to your friends about Socialist Russia and its parallels under Stalin and Krushchev to the United States. I would love to talk about Gulags, Great Purges, and Krushchev's de-Stalinization. What do they think of Brezhnev and Gorbachev? When did they escape the Soviet Union? How old were they when they escaped?

Providing health insurance for all is not crushing individual pursuits, it's aiding it. You'll see that under our current system, small businesses are hurt the most. Freeing yourself from employer-centric health insurance frees you to start your own business or join a small business that has already started. It won't put you at a huge cost disadvantage and will allow you to more readily compete with established corporations. It reduces barriers to entry, which is one of the requirements for a perfect market (but I didn't have to tell you this, right?). I think it would be wise if Libertarians could distinguish their beliefs from Anarcho-Capitalists. I consider myself to be a Libertarian, which means I prefer liberty maximizing positions. I'm removing some of your transactional liberty and replacing it with a great deal more mobility. Those who purely worship at the alter of Laissez-faire economics are Anarcho-Capitalists. Laissez-faire economics doesn't work. It doesn't work because the conditions required are never met in the real world. This applies to the perfect market, perfect competition, Coasian bargaining, all the way on down.

 

[SammyJr]

Originally posted by: lupi

Originally posted by: SammyJr

Originally posted by: JeffreyLebowski
That's the problem with liberals. You think with emotions, not facts.

Pot, meet kettle. I seem to remember the "Smoking Gun" being a big scary thing back in the runup to the Iraq war.

What in the world makes you think that some shmuk that won't work and is slinging crack to children should get free health care on mine or your dime. Because that's what's going to happen when "universal health care" is passed.
Fuck them. If they can't make it in the world then they don't make it. It's not my job or anyone elses job except their parents to pull their asses out of the mud and set them on the right track in life. It is definitely not the governments role to do that.

That's already been in place for decades. Its called Medicaid.

We're fighting so that the schmuck who DOES work can get health insurance despite his preexisting conditions and low income. You do realize that there are people who are too rich for Medicaid yet too poor to buy any meaningful insurance, right?

No they're not. If they truly just wanted a health insurance regulation revamp bill there would be minimal dissent to the effort.

Wow, you think Republicans would go along with efforts to eliminate rescission and preexisting conditions? Do you think Republicans would go along with any plan that would genuinely allow any member of the working poor to buy reasonable coverage that they can afford? Hell no.

The Republicans, like usual, would offer a package of tax cuts and tell people to buy their own insurance. They would ignore preexisting conditions, rescission, and the fact that people who are in the working poor don't benefit from federal tax cuts because they don't pay federal tax.

You guys had years to put through any measure of health care reform, but didn't. I don't think Republicans are interested in the subject. I gots mine so fuck you!

 

[EagleKeeper]

If they are going to pass something, then do it withevery addressed and notbeing "we will figure it out later'.

Using Kennedy as a jsutification for pushing through something that is flawed and not well thought out is a disgrace for the purpose that you are pushing.

A project this size and impact, needs a full analysis of every line item. Every "I" should be dotted and "T" crossed. rubber stamping is angerous; you have provided many macros that indicate this.

Like the Dems rubber stamping everything that Bush did.

Lack of analysis and questions created serious problems. this could be an order of magnitude worse if not formed properly.

 

[exar333]

Using his death to further a cause is cheap and reeks of a severe lack of class.

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: ExarKun333
Using his death to further a cause is cheap and reeks of a severe lack of class.

Using someone's death to accomplish the task he spoke of as 'the cause of my life' lacks class? Something tells me you wouldn't be saying that if it were something you agreed with.

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: Skoorb
Has anybody yet explained why congress would be exempt from the new health system they are trying to promote or is it a myth/talking point? What are the real facts? I have tried to google it but it's full of crap.

It's yet another myth. I've seen nothing where federal employees, Congress, or anyone else would be immune from the new regulations.

This myth probably came out of the whole 'if your public option is so great why don't you use it?' retarded talking point. (why millionaires would hurry to jump on a health plan designed to help the poor is beyond me)

 

[fskimospy]

Oh and one final thing, I love how people are still complaining that this is being passed 'in a hurry'. We're currently in our fifth month of debate on it, and a bill being signed is most certainly not imminent. It will be six, seven, eight months of debate on it, but I bet you that it will still be considered 'rushed'. Why? Because it's a talking point that has been cemented in the minds of those who oppose this bill.

 

[TheSkinsFan]

LOL!!.... no.


I can just see the commercials now...

"Hi, I'm the ghost of Teddy Kennedy, and I approve this message."

 

[ProfJohn]

Originally posted by: SammyJr

Originally posted by: Skoorb
Has anybody yet explained why congress would be exempt from the new health system they are trying to promote or is it a myth/talking point? What are the real facts? I have tried to google it but it's full of crap.

If there's any truth to it, its because they have the Federal Employees Health Insurance system and that system would be the basis of the so-called Health Insurance Exchange. Its not because they're exempt, its because they're already in it.

Just a guess, anyway, but it makes sense to me.

Not quite...

Congress has a healthcare plan that is equivalent to the best private healthcare plans in the country. There is NO way that the public option plan that they push upon uninsured Americans will be any where near as complete or expansive as the coverage they have voted for themselves.

 

[Robor]

Originally posted by: brencat

Originally posted by: JeffreyLebowski
That's the problem with liberals. You think with emotions, not facts.
What in the world makes you think that some shmuk that won't work and is slinging crack to children should get free health care on mine or your dime. Because that's what's going to happen when "universal health care" is passed.
Fuck them. If they can't make it in the world then they don't make it. It's not my job or anyone elses job except their parents to pull their asses out of the mud and set them on the right track in life. It is definitely not the governments role to do that.

+1 and nomination for best post of the week!!

Uh, huh... Terrar! WMD's! ring a bell? Go start another war.

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn

Originally posted by: SammyJr

Originally posted by: Skoorb
Has anybody yet explained why congress would be exempt from the new health system they are trying to promote or is it a myth/talking point? What are the real facts? I have tried to google it but it's full of crap.

If there's any truth to it, its because they have the Federal Employees Health Insurance system and that system would be the basis of the so-called Health Insurance Exchange. Its not because they're exempt, its because they're already in it.

Just a guess, anyway, but it makes sense to me.

Not quite...

Congress has a healthcare plan that is equivalent to the best private healthcare plans in the country. There is NO way that the public option plan that they push upon uninsured Americans will be any where near as complete or expansive as the coverage they have voted for themselves.

And that's exactly the ridiculous talking point I was talking about. Why would millionaires join a health plan designed to help the poor?

 

[boomerang]

This is reality.

Energy and Commerce Committee Chairman Henry Waxman, D-Calif., decided Thursday night not to allow a vote on adding members of Congress to the ?public-option? government health plan.

The proposal to subject politicians right along with the public to government-run health care was offered by U.S. Rep. Roy Blunt, R-Mo. He said that the reality of a public plan competing with private insurance is ?that the public plan within a very short time becomes the only plan. This amendment just says that if there is a public plan, that the elected federal officials ? the president, the vice president and members of Congress ? would be enrolled in the public plan.?

?If this is a good plan for them,? added U.S. Rep. Sue Myrick, R-N.C., ?it ought to be good enough for us.? And U.S. Rep. Steve Scalise, R-La., called it ?a put-up-or-shut-up amendment.?

Don't for one minute think that what's good enough for the public will be good enough for Congress. They're special. Elitists all.

 

[OutHouse]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
So you want the same people who gave us the following to be 100% in charge of healthcare?

VA problems.
More botched cancer treatment cases at Philadelphia's VA hospital

Miami Man to Sue VA Hospital for HIV

Another VA Blunder: Patients Mistakenly Told They Had ALS

Soldiers Face Neglect, Frustration At Army's Top Medical Facility

Medicare problems
Medicare Money Problems Trigger Warning

Dozens arrested in Medicare fraud busts across US

Blatant Medicare fraud costs taxpayers billions"organized and lucrative schemes to bilk Medicare out of an estimated $60 billion dollars a year"

Education
SAT Scores Fall as Gap Widens; Asians Gain "Many observers Tuesday viewed the flat results of recent years as discouraging in light of a more than 25-year effort to improve U.S. education"

10 Facts About K-12 Education Funding-On a per-pupil basis and adjusted for inflation, public school funding increased: 24 percent from 1991-92 through 2001-02

Fraud, waste and overspending.
Big Dig's red ink engulfs state. Cost spirals to $22b; crushing debt sidetracks other work, pushes agency toward insolvency Will cost nearly 4 times its original estimate.

Cost overruns have military facing 'train wreck,' McCain says Cost of 95 major weapons systems have ballooned by 30 percent

Top 10 Examples of Government Waste I counted about $60 billion in waste per year.

Finally... look at the mess in Massachusetts
Mass. Health Care Reform Reveals Doctor Shortage
The Massachusetts Health Mess
Massachusetts Universal Health Care Cuts Facing a massive budget shortfall, lawmakers are cutting roughly 30 thousand legal, taxpaying immigrants out of the state subsidized Commonwealth Care program
Healthcare reform ? is Massachusetts proof that it can work, or proof that it doesn?t? Now a new study provides data that shows Massachusetts universal healthcare plan costs rose %40 since 2003, compared to the national average for the private sector which only rose 33% in the same period.

With our government's track record I am not very confident they can pull this off without totally screwing it up. If you don't believe me make a trip to the local DMV and see how long you have to wait in line.

yea i know all that stuff sucks. but what sucks even more is not having people insured in our country and go without medical care because they cant afford a doctor or the meds. another sore spot with me is you work you whole life to live comfortably in retirement and get one major health issue and boom you are bankrupt, have to sell the house. another sore spot is if you get layed off and you can not afford your health insurance even with COBRA or if you have a pre-existing condition and you can not get coverage. to me that is just damn wrong and should not happen ever in our country. our current health care system is broken period.

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: Citrix

yea i know all that stuff sucks. but what sucks even more is not having people insured in our country and go without medical care because they cant afford a doctor or the meds. another sore spot with me is you work you whole life to live comfortably in retirement and get one major health issue and boom you are bankrupt, have to sell the house. another sore spot is if you get layed off and you can not afford your health insurance even with COBRA or if you have a pre-existing condition and you can not get coverage. to me that is just damn wrong and should not happen ever in our country. our current health care system is broken period.

Pro-Jo just provided you a string of anecdotal evidence, random warnings, and right wing editorials. There's a reason he provided you with this blizzard of links, and that's because he's substituting them for a real argument.