Single Payer Health Care NOW! Pass Teddy-Care.

[Suspicious-Teach8788]

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: ProfJohn

Originally posted by: SammyJr

Originally posted by: Skoorb
Has anybody yet explained why congress would be exempt from the new health system they are trying to promote or is it a myth/talking point? What are the real facts? I have tried to google it but it's full of crap.

If there's any truth to it, its because they have the Federal Employees Health Insurance system and that system would be the basis of the so-called Health Insurance Exchange. Its not because they're exempt, its because they're already in it.

Just a guess, anyway, but it makes sense to me.

Not quite...

Congress has a healthcare plan that is equivalent to the best private healthcare plans in the country. There is NO way that the public option plan that they push upon uninsured Americans will be any where near as complete or expansive as the coverage they have voted for themselves.

And that's exactly the ridiculous talking point I was talking about. Why would millionaires join a health plan designed to help the poor?

Because it's trash. If you're going to feed a poor person scraps and slop you feed to pigs, it better be something YOU are willing to take part of. I'd rather pay for people to join the already proven private health insurance sector via a credit or rebate or whatever. Why offer them something new that's clearly crappier than what we already have?

It's just like Social Security is designed to help people who can't save past the avg life expectancy. It's also to help the poor have some minimum return when they're old. Why the hell do I need to join in such a scam when I can be getting better returns elsewhere? Obviously it wasn't designed for the rich.

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: DLeRium

Because it's trash. If you're going to feed a poor person scraps and slop you feed to pigs, it better be something YOU are willing to take part of. I'd rather pay for people to join the already proven private health insurance sector via a credit or rebate or whatever. Why offer them something new that's clearly crappier than what we already have?

It's just like Social Security is designed to help people who can't save past the avg life expectancy. It's also to help the poor have some minimum return when they're old. Why the hell do I need to join in such a scam when I can be getting better returns elsewhere? Obviously it wasn't designed for the rich.

Is it now. What elements of its coverage options are 'trash'? Be specific.

The entire reason health care reform is such a big issue is that our private health insurance sector is so catastrophically bad. Why you would want more people to be forced into private insurers that have considerably contributed to the US' abysmal health care efficiency is beyond me.

 

[ProfJohn]

Citrix, there are certainly problems within our current healthcare system.

The Republican solution to those problems is to work on fixing the problems on an individual basis.

The Democrat solution is to blow the whole system up and replace it with government run healthcare that will create a whole new set of problems.

 

[Patranus]

Originally posted by: eskimospy
And that's exactly the ridiculous talking point I was talking about. Why would millionaires join a health plan designed to help the poor?

Ask the CBO....

If your employer decided that they don't want to pay for your private insurance anymore, guess where you end up.....the government option.

Now, is that so hard to understand?

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Citrix, there are certainly problems within our current healthcare system.

The Republican solution to those problems is to work on fixing the problems on an individual basis.

The Democrat solution is to blow the whole system up and replace it with government run healthcare that will create a whole new set of problems.

How you could possibly consider a bill that explicitly props up the private system as 'blowing the whole system up'? That would be creating a single payer system, something that isn't even on the table. As much as I would like a single payer solution (as the evidence clearly shows how vastly superior it is to our system), that's just not the case.

The Republicans don't have a solution to our system's problems other than a tax credit that does nothing to bring out of control cost growth into line. They barely even have that, as they are content to froth and foam about invented government demons, death panels, socialism, communism, etc. Somehow they have found a way to be even more worthless as a minority party than they were as a majority party.

 

[Pens1566]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn

Originally posted by: SammyJr

Originally posted by: Skoorb
Has anybody yet explained why congress would be exempt from the new health system they are trying to promote or is it a myth/talking point? What are the real facts? I have tried to google it but it's full of crap.

If there's any truth to it, its because they have the Federal Employees Health Insurance system and that system would be the basis of the so-called Health Insurance Exchange. Its not because they're exempt, its because they're already in it.

Just a guess, anyway, but it makes sense to me.

Not quite...

Congress has a healthcare plan that is equivalent to the best private healthcare plans in the country. There is NO way that the public option plan that they push upon uninsured Americans will be any where near as complete or expansive as the coverage they have voted for themselves.

Thats a great argument ..... for single payer. Thx.

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: Patranus

Originally posted by: eskimospy
And that's exactly the ridiculous talking point I was talking about. Why would millionaires join a health plan designed to help the poor?

Ask the CBO....

If your employer decided that they don't want to pay for your private insurance anymore, guess where you end up.....the government option.

Now, is that so hard to understand?

Did you quote the right post? Your response didn't make any sense.

 

[SammyJr]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
The Republican solution to all problems is to implement tax cuts, whether or not they actually solve the problem.

fixed it for you!

 

[Pens1566]

Originally posted by: SammyJr

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
The Republican solution to all problems is to implement tax cuts, whether or not they actually solve the problem.

fixed it for you!

Damn, beat me to it.

 

[ProfJohn]

Originally posted by: SammyJr

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
The Republican solution to all problems is to implement tax cuts, whether or not they actually solve the problem.

fixed it for you!

And the Democrat solution is to expand the power and involvement of the government whether or not it solves the problems...


Wow we have accomplished so much... :roll:

 

[lupi]

Originally posted by: SammyJr
Wow, you think Republicans would go along with efforts to eliminate rescission and preexisting conditions?

I think if the focus stayed with adjusting regulation on many of the common areas the non-lunatics around here have identified as problem areas that not only would there be no universal republican opposition, but there wouldn't be a three way split among the democrats about the bill.

Do you think Republicans would go along with any plan that would genuinely allow any member of the working poor to buy reasonable coverage that they can afford? Hell no.

Based simply on the extremely non-detailed statement here, I don't see why not.

The Republicans, like usual, would offer a package of tax cuts and tell people to buy their own insurance. They would ignore preexisting conditions, rescission, and the fact that people who are in the working poor don't benefit from federal tax cuts because they don't pay federal tax.

So you admit the tax system is borked and of course have proof for the other grandiose statements.

You guys had years to put through any measure of health care reform, but didn't. I don't think Republicans are interested in the subject. I gots mine so fuck you!

You guys? I must have missed where I became part of the republican party or was consulted on these matters. But if they didn't care so much, why would they increase the debt level so much by expanding health programs in over the recent past.

 

[EagleKeeper]

Originally posted by: eskimospy
Oh and one final thing, I love how people are still complaining that this is being passed 'in a hurry'. We're currently in our fifth month of debate on it, and a bill being signed is most certainly not imminent. It will be six, seven, eight months of debate on it, but I bet you that it will still be considered 'rushed'. Why? Because it's a talking point that has been cemented in the minds of those who oppose this bill.

We may be in the fifth month of debate.

Yet there are multiple version in the House and a few more in the Senate.
Each has different guidelines, rules, punishments, favoritisms, etc.

Obama himself, has not stated the details of what he wants. The devil is in the details!; and no one has been able to identify all of them. There is plenty of vague wording.
to say that something will be detailed later, implemented later or that someone will be appointed to study/implement is passing the buck/responsibility. Given government and lawyers, unless something is specifically called out as excluded, it will eventually be included when preparing a pork pie.

Let the house come up with a properly documented detailed bill and also one in the Senate.
Then the feedback and dissection can begin in earnest and the flaws exposed to be fixed or removed.

 

[Harvey]

Originally posted by: dali71

Originally posted by: Harvey
I wrote mine:

Dear Senator, In memory of Ted Kennedy, please pass a single payer health care bill. Name it Teddy-Care or Tedi-care. You need Republicans like a fish needs a pogo stick. To hell with bloated insurance company execs and their mega-buck bonuses and golden parachutes. You have your single payer health care. Please honor the memory of Ted Kennedy, and pass "Teddy-Care" to grant the same right to the citizens of the United States of America. Sincerely, Harvey Rubens

Maybe we can use Ted Kennedy's passing to inspire our all too reluctant Congressional representatives to represent US, for a change.

I think I just threw up in my mouth a little bit :disgust:

And if you had Teddy-Care, you could afford to treat that drug OD.

Originally posted by: ProfJohn

So... the best way to honor Ted Kennedy is to create a healthcare system that he would have never used for himself... makes sense to me :roll:

Kennedy was wealthy from day one so he didn't need it, but he was a U.S. Senator so he still got it. Are you that rich? Could you afford the kind of health care he got or that he would have received as a Senator, even without his personal wealth?

Johnny boy -- NOTHING you say makes sense to me. :roll:

Originally posted by: QuantumPion

So in memory of Ted Kennedy, whom received top-notch million-dollar private elite health care all his life, you want to pass a bill which would de facto make illegal such options to everyone else (but still available to the political elites, of course). Sounds about par for the course.

That's a crock of shit! As noted, as a U.S. Senator, Kennedy had free, single payer health care available to himself and his family. It was his personal good fortune that he was wealthy enough to afford more, at his choice, as needed. NOTHING in a single payer system would prevent those who could afford more care, or alternative care, from getting it.

Originally posted by: Druidx

I wonder if they did a quick double take when they received it thinking it was signed by
Paul Rubens ( aka PeeWee Herman ), since it's obviously a joke.

He spells his name, Paul REUBENS, and, if that's the best you can come up with, YOU are the joke. :laugh:

Originally posted by: ExarKun333

Using his death to further a cause is cheap and reeks of a severe lack of class.

NOT passing universal, single payer health care doesn't just "reek of" class warfare; it IS class warfare. Those who can afford to pay the inflated cost of care under the current system survive... as long as they don't have a pre-existing condition, or some overpaid insurance exec doesn't pad his bonus by inventing a loophole to duck payment for a life saving treatment. Of course, those same over stuffed, over paid, over bonused insurance execs won't be worrying about YOU when they cut off your insurance.

Using Kennedy's death as a lever to promote universal health care is good marketing. Good marketing is a tool to promote an idea or product. It is not intrinsically right or wrong. It depends on the value of what is marketed.

I believe Ted Kennedy and his family would be proud to have his name associated with promoting the cause he championed for so long. :thumbsup:

 

[boomerang]

Originally posted by: Common Courtesy
We may be in the fifth month of debate.

Yet there are multiple version in the House and a few more in the Senate.
Each has different guidelines, rules, punishments, favoritisms, etc.

Obama himself, has not stated the details of what he wants. The devil is in the details!; and no one has been able to identify all of them. There is plenty of vague wording.
to say that something will be detailed later, implemented later or that someone will be appointed to study/implement is passing the buck/responsibility. Given government and lawyers, unless something is specifically called out as excluded, it will eventually be included when preparing a pork pie.

Let the house come up with a properly documented detailed bill and also one in the Senate.
Then the feedback and dissection can begin in earnest and the flaws exposed to be fixed or removed.

This is a very reasonable post. But ......... the status quo of this administration thus far has been to ram legislation through at the speed of light. The public was lied to about transparency, lied to about partisanship, lied to about far, far too many things. This is at the heart of the discourse IMO. That and how to pay for it.

Once bitten twice shy. I'm for health care reform, but this my way or the highway demeanor of the left needs to stop. For those that say that compromise has already been reached in some areas, well true, but look what lengths had to be gone to for that to happen. There is very little partisanship going on in regards to health care reform. Many, many folks are deeply and rightfully concerned that a final version of the bill will be rammed through as has been the status quo to date.

The left tries to ram this down the throat of the people of this country, the people ask to have some time to look at it and give some input. The answer is no. They ask again louder - no. They start screaming and the left listens, but then labels them with whatever demeaning names they are tossing about at that time frame. Astroturf, Nazi's etc. Then the left wonders why it's such an uphill battle.

Then the country is threatened with putting it through using reconciliation! Talk about dumb and dumber. Who likes to be dictated to like a child?

It would be fucking comical if it wasn't such a damned serious situation.

 

[QuantumPion]

Originally posted by: SammyJr

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
The Republican solution to all problems is to implement tax cuts, whether or not they actually solve the problem.

fixed it for you!

The reason why is because republicans know that the government can't actually fix societal problems, and so their goal is to limit/reverse as much damage done by democrats as possible.

 

[QuantumPion]

Originally posted by: SammyJr

You sound jealous. Why don't you get a job with a Government employer at the Fed, State, County, or Local level and you'll have the same kind of benefits that Kennedy enjoyed.

Because I like to contribute to society, not be a parasite and mooch off others.

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: Common Courtesy

Originally posted by: eskimospy
Oh and one final thing, I love how people are still complaining that this is being passed 'in a hurry'. We're currently in our fifth month of debate on it, and a bill being signed is most certainly not imminent. It will be six, seven, eight months of debate on it, but I bet you that it will still be considered 'rushed'. Why? Because it's a talking point that has been cemented in the minds of those who oppose this bill.

We may be in the fifth month of debate.

Yet there are multiple version in the House and a few more in the Senate.
Each has different guidelines, rules, punishments, favoritisms, etc.

Obama himself, has not stated the details of what he wants. The devil is in the details!; and no one has been able to identify all of them. There is plenty of vague wording.
to say that something will be detailed later, implemented later or that someone will be appointed to study/implement is passing the buck/responsibility. Given government and lawyers, unless something is specifically called out as excluded, it will eventually be included when preparing a pork pie.

Let the house come up with a properly documented detailed bill and also one in the Senate.
Then the feedback and dissection can begin in earnest and the flaws exposed to be fixed or removed.

Of course the devil is in the details. So what? How does the House and Senate not having finalized their bills have anything to do with this being 'rushed'? They haven't finalized their bills precisely because of the time taken to debate the provisions, in fact it's the exact opposite of rushing. As for looking to implement more things later, of course that's in the bill. No responsible bill would be without those provisions. Appointing people to study something before putting it into place is the exact opposite of irresponsibility.

This is how all legislation that the US has enacted for centuries is done.

 

[CPA]

nice, use the death of someone for your political agenda.

 

[SammyJr]

Originally posted by: QuantumPion

Originally posted by: SammyJr

You sound jealous. Why don't you get a job with a Government employer at the Fed, State, County, or Local level and you'll have the same kind of benefits that Kennedy enjoyed.

Because I like to contribute to society, not be a parasite and mooch off others.

Say that to one of our troops. Make sure someone is around to video tape it.

 

[dammitgibs]

Please tell me OP was joking

 

[EagleKeeper]

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: Common Courtesy

Originally posted by: eskimospy
Oh and one final thing, I love how people are still complaining that this is being passed 'in a hurry'. We're currently in our fifth month of debate on it, and a bill being signed is most certainly not imminent. It will be six, seven, eight months of debate on it, but I bet you that it will still be considered 'rushed'. Why? Because it's a talking point that has been cemented in the minds of those who oppose this bill.

We may be in the fifth month of debate.

Yet there are multiple version in the House and a few more in the Senate.
Each has different guidelines, rules, punishments, favoritisms, etc.

Obama himself, has not stated the details of what he wants. The devil is in the details!; and no one has been able to identify all of them. There is plenty of vague wording.
to say that something will be detailed later, implemented later or that someone will be appointed to study/implement is passing the buck/responsibility. Given government and lawyers, unless something is specifically called out as excluded, it will eventually be included when preparing a pork pie.

Let the house come up with a properly documented detailed bill and also one in the Senate.
Then the feedback and dissection can begin in earnest and the flaws exposed to be fixed or removed.

Of course the devil is in the details. So what? How does the House and Senate not having finalized their bills have anything to do with this being 'rushed'? They haven't finalized their bills precisely because of the time taken to debate the provisions, in fact it's the exact opposite of rushing. As for looking to implement more things later, of course that's in the bill. No responsible bill would be without those provisions. Appointing people to study something before putting it into place is the exact opposite of irresponsibility.

This is how all legislation that the US has enacted for centuries is done.

We are on the same mindset.

I do not like the fact that Harvey wants to ram UHC through using Kennedy as an excuse.
The product at present is not ready for prime time and anything this complex needs proper handling, not rubber stamping.

Attempting to play the guilt, sympathy or tribute card is just asking for trouble as soon as it starts and all the way along the road.

The Cash for Clunkers program, while good intentioned, was not properly thought out, poorly implemented by the Government and presently hanging many of the people it was intended to help out to dry by the 100K s because of poor planning. And this was only a 3B pittance effort in terms of $$ and impact that UHC will have.

 

[Harvey]

Originally posted by: dammitgibs

Please tell me OP was joking

If I did, I would then have to post again to tell you I was joking about joking.

Tell me when you've got a better idea to provide basic health care for every American citizen. :light:

 

[Druidx]

Originally posted by: Harvey

Originally posted by: Druidx

I wonder if they did a quick double take when they received it thinking it was signed by
Paul Rubens ( aka PeeWee Herman ), since it's obviously a joke.

He spells his name, Paul REUBENS, and, if that's the best you can come up with, YOU are the joke. :laugh:

Harvey, Harvey, Harvey.
Don't be that way. I'm sure congress really liked your letter. Who knows, maybe your Senator or Rep has it hanging up in their office right now. They're probably bragging all about it.
:thumbsup:

 

[OCGuy]

Originally posted by: Harvey

Originally posted by: dammitgibs

Please tell me OP was joking

If I did, I would then have to post again to tell you I was joking about joking.

Tell me when you've got a better idea to provide basic health care for every American citizen. :light;

Who is proposing that? That sounds like UHC. I wasnt aware UHC was on the table.

Links?

As far as I know, Hillary was the only one running for president who proposed UHC.

 

[piasabird]

Get a free case a gin, and 2 carton of cigarettes for the head of every family! Just dont expect the special treatment the King Ted received.