Shouting teen shot with stun gun, dies next day

[Dean]

Originally posted by: Garet Jax

Originally posted by: Dean
Just maybe, the guy was not a threat and was taking a bad diabetic reaction or something.
Any cop afraid to end up with a bruise or a scratch should not be a cop in my opinion.

It is the boy's responsibility to protect himself - not the cop's. The boy should realize the cops aren't going away unless he listens to them. His best protection would have been to listen to the cops.

I'm not talking about a bruise or a scratch - there was no way to know the true threat the boy posed to the officers. Rather than finding out, they used their stun gun. It could be that the boy posed no threat, but it could be that the boy was HIV positive and wanted to swap blood with the officers. Again, the police shouldn't have to find out the hard way.

If you are in the middle of lets say a bad diabetic reaction, you cannot think properly. What a police officer says or does would not make any sense to the boy.

The officers, going into their job, know they will end up in physical confrontations. If the guy was 300 lbs and 6'6" tall, I could see the cops maybe needing to use it out of necessity. But if 6 cops cannot properly subdue a 130lb kid, then they should walk away from their profession and become insurance salesmen.

 

[Garet Jax]

Originally posted by: Aharami
...when they signed up to protect the citizens they serve. Cops shouldnt be cops if they are afraid of a few bruises. Its part of the job description. The kid is said to be bipolar, and he was 130 lbs. One cop could've cuffed the kid by himself. Im sorry, this nothing but extremely lazy policing.

Id understand the use of tasers if the kid was wielding a weapon...but last i checked, a bible isnt a weapon (depends on who you ask though ).

Don't judge a book by its cover - just because he was 130lbs means nothing. Just because he was holding a bible means nothing. Just because he was 17 means nothing.

What means something is that he refused to listen to police officer's commands and he became combative. There is no reason for police to risk their lives when they have a better approach. They can use a taser and subdue the person from a distance.

 

[Stuxnet]

Originally posted by: pontifex

Originally posted by: Aharami

Originally posted by: Garet Jax

Originally posted by: Aharami
still. thats just lazy policing. they should only use stun guns when they cant subdue the person physically.

Nope it's smart policing - the cops are protecting themselves.

...when they signed up to protect the citizens they serve. Cops shouldnt be cops if they are afraid of a few bruises. Its part of the job description. The kid is said to be bipolar, and he was 130 lbs. One cop could've cuffed the kid by himself. Im sorry, this nothing but extremely lazy policing.

Id understand the use of tasers if the kid was wielding a weapon...but last i checked, a bible isnt a weapon (depends on who you ask though ).

i didn't know police had x-ray vision and could see into pockets. he could have had a gun or knife in his pockets or stuffed into his belt.

You're basically insinuating that every arrest should be preceded by a tasering, since the cops will never know what the perp has in his pockets.

 

[pontifex]

Originally posted by: jbourne77

Originally posted by: pontifex

Originally posted by: Aharami

Originally posted by: Garet Jax

Originally posted by: Aharami
still. thats just lazy policing. they should only use stun guns when they cant subdue the person physically.

Nope it's smart policing - the cops are protecting themselves.

...when they signed up to protect the citizens they serve. Cops shouldnt be cops if they are afraid of a few bruises. Its part of the job description. The kid is said to be bipolar, and he was 130 lbs. One cop could've cuffed the kid by himself. Im sorry, this nothing but extremely lazy policing.

Id understand the use of tasers if the kid was wielding a weapon...but last i checked, a bible isnt a weapon (depends on who you ask though ).

i didn't know police had x-ray vision and could see into pockets. he could have had a gun or knife in his pockets or stuffed into his belt.

You're basically insinuating that every arrest should be preceded by a tasering, since the cops will never know what the perp has in his pockets.

Officers attempted to speak to Holyfield, but he became combative toward officers and would not respond to verbal commands, police said.

 

[Scarpozzi]

I actually know a lot about the problems Taser is facing these days. The company changed their design recently and the electronics have been faulty. My cousin is more of an expert on actual logistics of it, but he told me that they dropped the voltage and upped the current for their last models....it was at the request of some police departments and military experts that wanted the zap to be more potent in the event of a clothed victim...they were trying to make it so if you just barely touch someone, it would still be effective.

The down side to this is that if you really get someone, they better have a healthy heart.

 

[waggy]

Originally posted by: pontifex

Originally posted by: Aharami

Originally posted by: Garet Jax

Originally posted by: Aharami
still. thats just lazy policing. they should only use stun guns when they cant subdue the person physically.

Nope it's smart policing - the cops are protecting themselves.

...when they signed up to protect the citizens they serve. Cops shouldnt be cops if they are afraid of a few bruises. Its part of the job description. The kid is said to be bipolar, and he was 130 lbs. One cop could've cuffed the kid by himself. Im sorry, this nothing but extremely lazy policing.

Id understand the use of tasers if the kid was wielding a weapon...but last i checked, a bible isnt a weapon (depends on who you ask though ).

i didn't know police had x-ray vision and could see into pockets. he could have had a gun or knife in his pockets or stuffed into his belt.

you are right. they should just taser people right off the bat from now on.

 

[Garet Jax]

Originally posted by: Dean
If you are in the middle of lets say a bad diabetic reaction, you cannot think properly. What a police officer says or does would not make any sense to the boy.

The officers, going into their job, know they will end up in physical confrontations. If the guy was 300 lbs and 6'6" tall, I could see the cops maybe needing to use it out of necessity. But if 6 cops cannot properly subdue a 130lb kid, then they should walk away from their profession and become insurance salesmen.

It's not that they couldn't, but why take the risk when they can subdue the person from a distance only to approach when he has no possible way of injuring the cops?

 

[Stuxnet]

Originally posted by: Garet Jax

Originally posted by: Aharami
...when they signed up to protect the citizens they serve. Cops shouldnt be cops if they are afraid of a few bruises. Its part of the job description. The kid is said to be bipolar, and he was 130 lbs. One cop could've cuffed the kid by himself. Im sorry, this nothing but extremely lazy policing.

Id understand the use of tasers if the kid was wielding a weapon...but last i checked, a bible isnt a weapon (depends on who you ask though ).

Don't judge a book by its cover - just because he was 130lbs means nothing. Just because he was holding a bible means nothing. Just because he was 17 means nothing.

Nonsense. Police use a suspect's physical stature every day to justify how they approach a situation.

 

[Stuxnet]

Originally posted by: waggy

Originally posted by: pontifex

Originally posted by: Aharami

Originally posted by: Garet Jax

Originally posted by: Aharami
still. thats just lazy policing. they should only use stun guns when they cant subdue the person physically.

Nope it's smart policing - the cops are protecting themselves.

...when they signed up to protect the citizens they serve. Cops shouldnt be cops if they are afraid of a few bruises. Its part of the job description. The kid is said to be bipolar, and he was 130 lbs. One cop could've cuffed the kid by himself. Im sorry, this nothing but extremely lazy policing.

Id understand the use of tasers if the kid was wielding a weapon...but last i checked, a bible isnt a weapon (depends on who you ask though ).

i didn't know police had x-ray vision and could see into pockets. he could have had a gun or knife in his pockets or stuffed into his belt.

you are right. they should just taser people right off the bat from now on.

 

[pontifex]

Originally posted by: waggy

Originally posted by: pontifex

Originally posted by: Aharami

Originally posted by: Garet Jax

Originally posted by: Aharami
still. thats just lazy policing. they should only use stun guns when they cant subdue the person physically.

Nope it's smart policing - the cops are protecting themselves.

...when they signed up to protect the citizens they serve. Cops shouldnt be cops if they are afraid of a few bruises. Its part of the job description. The kid is said to be bipolar, and he was 130 lbs. One cop could've cuffed the kid by himself. Im sorry, this nothing but extremely lazy policing.

Id understand the use of tasers if the kid was wielding a weapon...but last i checked, a bible isnt a weapon (depends on who you ask though ).

i didn't know police had x-ray vision and could see into pockets. he could have had a gun or knife in his pockets or stuffed into his belt.

you are right. they should just taser people right off the bat from now on.

Officers attempted to speak to Holyfield, but he became combative toward officers and would not respond to verbal commands, police said.

 

[Stuxnet]

Originally posted by: pontifex

Originally posted by: waggy

Originally posted by: pontifex

Originally posted by: Aharami

Originally posted by: Garet Jax

Originally posted by: Aharami
still. thats just lazy policing. they should only use stun guns when they cant subdue the person physically.

Nope it's smart policing - the cops are protecting themselves.

...when they signed up to protect the citizens they serve. Cops shouldnt be cops if they are afraid of a few bruises. Its part of the job description. The kid is said to be bipolar, and he was 130 lbs. One cop could've cuffed the kid by himself. Im sorry, this nothing but extremely lazy policing.

Id understand the use of tasers if the kid was wielding a weapon...but last i checked, a bible isnt a weapon (depends on who you ask though ).

i didn't know police had x-ray vision and could see into pockets. he could have had a gun or knife in his pockets or stuffed into his belt.

you are right. they should just taser people right off the bat from now on.

Officers attempted to speak to Holyfield, but he became combative toward officers and would not respond to verbal commands, police said.

Quit being an idiot, pontifex. What Waggy and I said was in direct response to your failed logic. It has nothing to do with the original story.

 

[Jahee]

Originally posted by: Scarpozzi
I actually know a lot about the problems Taser is facing these days. The company changed their design recently and the electronics have been faulty. My cousin is more of an expert on actual logistics of it, but he told me that they dropped the voltage and upped the current for their last models....it was at the request of some police departments and military experts that wanted the zap to be more potent in the event of a clothed victim...they were trying to make it so if you just barely touch someone, it would still be effective.

The down side to this is that if you really get someone, they better have a healthy heart.

And the police, knowing this, should always assume that the person has a heart condition or whatever before using these things, i wonder if the officers are educated on the all effects the tasers can have on a human body and use this knowledge to effectively use them.

 

[waggy]

Originally posted by: pontifex

Originally posted by: waggy

Originally posted by: pontifex

Originally posted by: Aharami

Originally posted by: Garet Jax

Originally posted by: Aharami
still. thats just lazy policing. they should only use stun guns when they cant subdue the person physically.

Nope it's smart policing - the cops are protecting themselves.

...when they signed up to protect the citizens they serve. Cops shouldnt be cops if they are afraid of a few bruises. Its part of the job description. The kid is said to be bipolar, and he was 130 lbs. One cop could've cuffed the kid by himself. Im sorry, this nothing but extremely lazy policing.

Id understand the use of tasers if the kid was wielding a weapon...but last i checked, a bible isnt a weapon (depends on who you ask though ).

i didn't know police had x-ray vision and could see into pockets. he could have had a gun or knife in his pockets or stuffed into his belt.

you are right. they should just taser people right off the bat from now on.

Officers attempted to speak to Holyfield, but he became combative toward officers and would not respond to verbal commands, police said.

right. since they didnt have x-ray vision to see if he had a gun or knife they should have tazered him right off the bat. would have saved them some time. why talk to him? give him time to pull that weapon out of the bible.

 

[pontifex]

Originally posted by: jbourne77

Originally posted by: pontifex

Originally posted by: waggy

Originally posted by: pontifex

Originally posted by: Aharami

Originally posted by: Garet Jax

Originally posted by: Aharami
still. thats just lazy policing. they should only use stun guns when they cant subdue the person physically.

Nope it's smart policing - the cops are protecting themselves.

...when they signed up to protect the citizens they serve. Cops shouldnt be cops if they are afraid of a few bruises. Its part of the job description. The kid is said to be bipolar, and he was 130 lbs. One cop could've cuffed the kid by himself. Im sorry, this nothing but extremely lazy policing.

Id understand the use of tasers if the kid was wielding a weapon...but last i checked, a bible isnt a weapon (depends on who you ask though ).

i didn't know police had x-ray vision and could see into pockets. he could have had a gun or knife in his pockets or stuffed into his belt.

you are right. they should just taser people right off the bat from now on.

Officers attempted to speak to Holyfield, but he became combative toward officers and would not respond to verbal commands, police said.

Quit being an idiot, pontifex. What Waggy and I said was in direct response to your failed logic. It has nothing to do with the original story.

you're the idiot for putting words into my mouth.
my logic is not failed at all. lets see how you react when you have to deal with total strangers day in and day out who are high on crack or any other drug, who may be mentally unstable, etc. see how these people act. a police officer is there to keep the peace. they aren't going to jeapordize themselves or that of innocent bystanders.

that crackhead wandering around the street might have a gun that he could pull any minute and start firing. i agree that they should try to diffuse the situation without having to use any kind of force 1st, but if people don't cooperate with the police and/or become combative with them, then i say they deserve what they get.

 

[Stuxnet]

Originally posted by: pontifex

Originally posted by: jbourne77

Originally posted by: pontifex

Originally posted by: waggy

Originally posted by: pontifex

Originally posted by: Aharami

Originally posted by: Garet Jax

Originally posted by: Aharami
still. thats just lazy policing. they should only use stun guns when they cant subdue the person physically.

Nope it's smart policing - the cops are protecting themselves.

...when they signed up to protect the citizens they serve. Cops shouldnt be cops if they are afraid of a few bruises. Its part of the job description. The kid is said to be bipolar, and he was 130 lbs. One cop could've cuffed the kid by himself. Im sorry, this nothing but extremely lazy policing.

Id understand the use of tasers if the kid was wielding a weapon...but last i checked, a bible isnt a weapon (depends on who you ask though ).

i didn't know police had x-ray vision and could see into pockets. he could have had a gun or knife in his pockets or stuffed into his belt.

you are right. they should just taser people right off the bat from now on.

Officers attempted to speak to Holyfield, but he became combative toward officers and would not respond to verbal commands, police said.

Quit being an idiot, pontifex. What Waggy and I said was in direct response to your failed logic. It has nothing to do with the original story.

you're the idiot for putting words into my mouth.

Quote me cablejockey.

 

[pontifex]

Originally posted by: waggy

Originally posted by: pontifex

Originally posted by: waggy

Originally posted by: pontifex

Originally posted by: Aharami

Originally posted by: Garet Jax

Originally posted by: Aharami
still. thats just lazy policing. they should only use stun guns when they cant subdue the person physically.

Nope it's smart policing - the cops are protecting themselves.

...when they signed up to protect the citizens they serve. Cops shouldnt be cops if they are afraid of a few bruises. Its part of the job description. The kid is said to be bipolar, and he was 130 lbs. One cop could've cuffed the kid by himself. Im sorry, this nothing but extremely lazy policing.

Id understand the use of tasers if the kid was wielding a weapon...but last i checked, a bible isnt a weapon (depends on who you ask though ).

i didn't know police had x-ray vision and could see into pockets. he could have had a gun or knife in his pockets or stuffed into his belt.

you are right. they should just taser people right off the bat from now on.

Officers attempted to speak to Holyfield, but he became combative toward officers and would not respond to verbal commands, police said.

right. since they didnt have x-ray vision to see if he had a gun or knife they should have tazered him right off the bat. would have saved them some time. why talk to him? give him time to pull that weapon out of the bible.

THEY DIDN'T TASER HIM RIGHT OFF THE BAT! READ THE GODDAMN ARTICLE.

i'm done arguing with you idiots. you obviously have some misaligned hatred for police or authority.

 

[Aharami]

Originally posted by: Garet Jax

Originally posted by: jbourne77

Because we're finding that they're TOO effective?

But are we?

How many deaths with bare hands?
How many deaths with billy clubs?
How many deaths were there when we subdued with guns drawn?
How many deaths with mace?
How many with pepper spray?
How many with tasers?

Again, I want to see both sides of the picture - cops and people being apprehended.

I can definitely say that it the boy hadn't been out there screaming, he would still be alive.
I can also say with relative assurance that if he had listened to the police officer's demands, he would likely still be alive.
I would also have told you before hand, that if he needed to be tasered to be apprehended, then he likely (99+%) would have survived.

cant really blame the kid here. One article mentioned that he was bipolar - as in mentally ill. Blaming him would be like blaming an Alzheimer's patient for forgetting stuff

 

[iroast]

the problem with tasers is that they're lethal to those in less than good health. what happened to good o' mace?

 

[Jahee]

lets not turn this into a shouting match...

 

[Stuxnet]

Originally posted by: pontifex

Originally posted by: waggy

Originally posted by: pontifex

Originally posted by: waggy

Originally posted by: pontifex

Originally posted by: Aharami

Originally posted by: Garet Jax

Originally posted by: Aharami
still. thats just lazy policing. they should only use stun guns when they cant subdue the person physically.

Nope it's smart policing - the cops are protecting themselves.

...when they signed up to protect the citizens they serve. Cops shouldnt be cops if they are afraid of a few bruises. Its part of the job description. The kid is said to be bipolar, and he was 130 lbs. One cop could've cuffed the kid by himself. Im sorry, this nothing but extremely lazy policing.

Id understand the use of tasers if the kid was wielding a weapon...but last i checked, a bible isnt a weapon (depends on who you ask though ).

i didn't know police had x-ray vision and could see into pockets. he could have had a gun or knife in his pockets or stuffed into his belt.

you are right. they should just taser people right off the bat from now on.

Officers attempted to speak to Holyfield, but he became combative toward officers and would not respond to verbal commands, police said.

right. since they didnt have x-ray vision to see if he had a gun or knife they should have tazered him right off the bat. would have saved them some time. why talk to him? give him time to pull that weapon out of the bible.

THEY DIDN'T TASER HIM RIGHT OFF THE BAT! READ THE GODDAMN ARTICLE.

Speaking of failed reading comprehension, you are failing to comprehend what exactly Waggy and I were responding to. It had very little to do with the original article and very much with your severely flawed logic regarding when and why tasers are used.

 

[shadow9d9]

Originally posted by: j00fek
another good showing from our pigs we call cops

They didn't do anything wrong.

 

[Aharami]

Originally posted by: waggy
you are right. they should just taser people right off the bat from now on.

hah. my thoughts exactly. next thing you know, you'll be getting tasered at traffic stops. afterall, the cops have no way of knowing what you're hiding in the car

 

[Garet Jax]

Originally posted by: jbourne77
You're basically insinuating that every arrest should be preceded by a tasering, since the cops will never know what the perp has in his pockets.

That's not true, but if the person being arrested is uncooperative and combative than absolutely.

 

[Stuxnet]

Originally posted by: Aharami

Originally posted by: waggy
you are right. they should just taser people right off the bat from now on.

hah. my thoughts exactly. next thing you know, you'll be getting tasered at traffic stops. afterall, the cops have no way of knowing what you're hiding in the car

Yep. The problem with pontifex's statement is that it sets a very dangerous precedent: tasering a suspect whenever you need to take them down because you have no idea what's in their pockets.

 

[Garet Jax]

Originally posted by: jbourne77
Nonsense. Police use a suspect's physical stature every day to justify how they approach a situation.

Yes, but approach is different than subdue.