Shouting teen shot with stun gun, dies next day

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Dean

Platinum Member
Oct 10, 1999
2,757
0
76
The Kid was walking around holding a bible and yelling "I want Jesus"

The kid was not a direct threat to the police, or anyone else for that matter. This all comes down to police being lazy and not wanting to get their hands dirty.

They could have grabbed him and cuffed him if he became a danger to himself, he did not have a weapon, so a taser is totally unneccessary.

The Kid was obviously in an excited state, his heart was probably working overtime. Yeah lets shove 50,000 volts into him that'll fix it. :roll:
 

Garet Jax

Diamond Member
Feb 21, 2000
6,369
0
71
Originally posted by: Aharami
why use a stun gun? are the cops that out of shape that 2 cant overpower one teenager?

He could have had a gun or a knife. He could have been a street fighter. He could have a black belt in some martial art. He could have HIV or some other blood transferring disease.

Why should the cops find out the hard way?
 

Jahee

Platinum Member
Sep 21, 2006
2,072
0
0
Originally posted by: Garet Jax
Originally posted by: j00fek
another good showing from our pigs we call cops

Boy that's a generalization.

What would you rather they do? The boy was warned before being shot. After the first shot he still didn't calm down so they shot him again. They used a stun gun to try and minimize the damage.

It wasn't the cops fault that the boy died from the stun gun. If anyone it's the boy's or it's Taser's.

What Damage??
 

Stuxnet

Diamond Member
Jun 16, 2005
8,392
1
0
Originally posted by: Garet Jax
Originally posted by: jbourne77
What threat did this kid pose?

ZERO.

How do you know that. He could have had a gun or a knife. He could have been a street fighter. He could have a black belt in some martial art. He could have HIV or some other blood transferring disease.

Why should the cops find out the hard way?

Assume much? Shoot first, ask questions later?

All ANY of us have are the facts from the article, and based on THOSE FACTS ALONE, the first shot was not justified.
 

Garet Jax

Diamond Member
Feb 21, 2000
6,369
0
71
Originally posted by: jbourne77
Originally posted by: iamwiz82
Originally posted by: jbourne77
Originally posted by: Garet Jax
Originally posted by: j00fek
another good showing from our pigs we call cops

Boy that's a generalization.

What would you rather they do? The boy was warned before being shot. After the first shot he still didn't calm down so they shot him again. They used a stun gun to try and minimize the damage.

It wasn't the cops fault that the boy died from the stun gun. If anyone it's the boy's or it's Taser's.

What threat did this kid pose?

ZERO.

How do you know? :confused:

Because, judging from the facts presented in the story, all the kid did was yell he wanted Jesus. I don't think that warrants electrocution.

They did say he became combating, but that was only after the first shot. The insinuation is that he wasn't combative prior.

Again. He could have had a gun or a knife. He could have been a street fighter. He could have a black belt in some martial art. He could have HIV or some other blood transferring disease.

Why should the cops find out the hard way?
 

moshquerade

No Lifer
Nov 1, 2001
61,504
12
56
Originally posted by: jbourne77
Originally posted by: iamwiz82
Originally posted by: jbourne77
Originally posted by: Garet Jax
Originally posted by: j00fek
another good showing from our pigs we call cops

Boy that's a generalization.

What would you rather they do? The boy was warned before being shot. After the first shot he still didn't calm down so they shot him again. They used a stun gun to try and minimize the damage.

It wasn't the cops fault that the boy died from the stun gun. If anyone it's the boy's or it's Taser's.

What threat did this kid pose?

ZERO.

How do you know? :confused:

Because, judging from the facts presented in the story, all the kid did was yell he wanted Jesus. I don't think that warrants electrocution.

They did say he became combating, but that was only after the first shot. The insinuation is that he wasn't combative prior.
your reading comprehension sucks. he was combative BEFORE they tazed him and they warned him if he didn't stop being combative that they would taze him.

 

Stuxnet

Diamond Member
Jun 16, 2005
8,392
1
0
Never mind... I misread the article. My bad. I interpreted it as him only becoming combating AFTER the first shot.

Apologies. Sounds justified to me now.
 

moshquerade

No Lifer
Nov 1, 2001
61,504
12
56
Originally posted by: jbourne77
Originally posted by: moshquerade
Originally posted by: iamwiz82
Originally posted by: jbourne77
Originally posted by: Garet Jax
Originally posted by: j00fek
another good showing from our pigs we call cops

Boy that's a generalization.

What would you rather they do? The boy was warned before being shot. After the first shot he still didn't calm down so they shot him again. They used a stun gun to try and minimize the damage.

It wasn't the cops fault that the boy died from the stun gun. If anyone it's the boy's or it's Taser's.

What threat did this kid pose?

ZERO.

How do you know? :confused:
he doesn't.

And you two know that he DID pose a threat? No, you don't.
if you go by the article, yeh, it says so.

 

moshquerade

No Lifer
Nov 1, 2001
61,504
12
56
Originally posted by: jbourne77
Never mind... I misread the article. My bad. I interpreted it as him only becoming combating AFTER the first shot.

Apologies. Sounds justified to me now.
:thumbsup:

 

Stuxnet

Diamond Member
Jun 16, 2005
8,392
1
0
Originally posted by: moshquerade
Originally posted by: jbourne77
Originally posted by: iamwiz82
Originally posted by: jbourne77
Originally posted by: Garet Jax
Originally posted by: j00fek
another good showing from our pigs we call cops

Boy that's a generalization.

What would you rather they do? The boy was warned before being shot. After the first shot he still didn't calm down so they shot him again. They used a stun gun to try and minimize the damage.

It wasn't the cops fault that the boy died from the stun gun. If anyone it's the boy's or it's Taser's.

What threat did this kid pose?

ZERO.

How do you know? :confused:

Because, judging from the facts presented in the story, all the kid did was yell he wanted Jesus. I don't think that warrants electrocution.

They did say he became combating, but that was only after the first shot. The insinuation is that he wasn't combative prior.
your reading comprehension sucks. he was combative BEFORE they tazed him and they warned him if he didn't stop being combative that they would taze him.

Crucify me. I obviously misread it.
 

Garet Jax

Diamond Member
Feb 21, 2000
6,369
0
71
Originally posted by: jbourne77

And you two know that he DID pose a threat? No, you don't.

He doesn't need to pose a threat to have a stun gun used against him. The cops are out to minimize the risk against them. Since knifes, guns, fighters, martial arts, blood diseases (and other risks to police officers) are so prevalent in society, police have to proactively protect themselves against threats.

I have no problems with police using stun guns unless they use them too soon. Multiple warnings is not too soon. The boy was a tool for not listening to the cops.

It is a shame that it cost him his life, but it is not the police's fault.
 

Dean

Platinum Member
Oct 10, 1999
2,757
0
76
Originally posted by: Garet Jax
Originally posted by: jbourne77
What threat did this kid pose?

ZERO.

How do you know that. He could have had a gun or a knife. He could have been a street fighter. He could have a black belt in some martial art. He could have HIV or some other blood transferring disease.

Why should the cops find out the hard way?


Cops should be trained to actually take care of themselves in a physical confrontation. You have a whole lot of what if's going on there. Just maybe, the guy was not a threat and was taking a bad diabetic reaction or something.
Any cop afraid to end up with a bruise or a scratch should not be a cop in my opinion.
 

moshquerade

No Lifer
Nov 1, 2001
61,504
12
56
Originally posted by: jbourne77
Originally posted by: moshquerade
Originally posted by: jbourne77
Originally posted by: iamwiz82
Originally posted by: jbourne77
Originally posted by: Garet Jax
Originally posted by: j00fek
another good showing from our pigs we call cops

Boy that's a generalization.

What would you rather they do? The boy was warned before being shot. After the first shot he still didn't calm down so they shot him again. They used a stun gun to try and minimize the damage.

It wasn't the cops fault that the boy died from the stun gun. If anyone it's the boy's or it's Taser's.

What threat did this kid pose?

ZERO.

How do you know? :confused:

Because, judging from the facts presented in the story, all the kid did was yell he wanted Jesus. I don't think that warrants electrocution.

They did say he became combating, but that was only after the first shot. The insinuation is that he wasn't combative prior.
your reading comprehension sucks. he was combative BEFORE they tazed him and they warned him if he didn't stop being combative that they would taze him.

Crucify me. I obviously misread it.
yeh, you admitted it when i was typing that and i gave you a thumbsup for admitting it.
nuff said.

 

Garet Jax

Diamond Member
Feb 21, 2000
6,369
0
71
Originally posted by: Jahee
Originally posted by: Garet Jax
Originally posted by: j00fek
another good showing from our pigs we call cops

Boy that's a generalization.

What would you rather they do? The boy was warned before being shot. After the first shot he still didn't calm down so they shot him again. They used a stun gun to try and minimize the damage.

It wasn't the cops fault that the boy died from the stun gun. If anyone it's the boy's or it's Taser's.

What Damage??

I was referring to the damage that can happen if multiple police tackle you and forcibly pin you to the ground to cuff you.
 

Stuxnet

Diamond Member
Jun 16, 2005
8,392
1
0
Originally posted by: moshquerade
Originally posted by: jbourne77
Originally posted by: moshquerade
Originally posted by: jbourne77
Originally posted by: iamwiz82
Originally posted by: jbourne77
Originally posted by: Garet Jax
Originally posted by: j00fek
another good showing from our pigs we call cops

Boy that's a generalization.

What would you rather they do? The boy was warned before being shot. After the first shot he still didn't calm down so they shot him again. They used a stun gun to try and minimize the damage.

It wasn't the cops fault that the boy died from the stun gun. If anyone it's the boy's or it's Taser's.

What threat did this kid pose?

ZERO.

How do you know? :confused:

Because, judging from the facts presented in the story, all the kid did was yell he wanted Jesus. I don't think that warrants electrocution.

They did say he became combating, but that was only after the first shot. The insinuation is that he wasn't combative prior.
your reading comprehension sucks. he was combative BEFORE they tazed him and they warned him if he didn't stop being combative that they would taze him.

Crucify me. I obviously misread it.
yeh, you admitted it when i was typing that and i gave you a thumbsup for admitting it.
nuff said.

Me = defensive ;)
 

pontifex

Lifer
Dec 5, 2000
43,804
46
91
Originally posted by: jbourne77
Originally posted by: moshquerade
Originally posted by: jbourne77
Originally posted by: iamwiz82
Originally posted by: jbourne77
Originally posted by: Garet Jax
Originally posted by: j00fek
another good showing from our pigs we call cops

Boy that's a generalization.

What would you rather they do? The boy was warned before being shot. After the first shot he still didn't calm down so they shot him again. They used a stun gun to try and minimize the damage.

It wasn't the cops fault that the boy died from the stun gun. If anyone it's the boy's or it's Taser's.

What threat did this kid pose?

ZERO.

How do you know? :confused:

Because, judging from the facts presented in the story, all the kid did was yell he wanted Jesus. I don't think that warrants electrocution.

They did say he became combating, but that was only after the first shot. The insinuation is that he wasn't combative prior.
your reading comprehension sucks. he was combative BEFORE they tazed him and they warned him if he didn't stop being combative that they would taze him.

Crucify me. I obviously misread it.

lol. you were ready to crucify people based on what you thought you read...
 

Stuxnet

Diamond Member
Jun 16, 2005
8,392
1
0
Originally posted by: pontifex
Originally posted by: jbourne77
Originally posted by: moshquerade
Originally posted by: jbourne77
Originally posted by: iamwiz82
Originally posted by: jbourne77
Originally posted by: Garet Jax
Originally posted by: j00fek
another good showing from our pigs we call cops

Boy that's a generalization.

What would you rather they do? The boy was warned before being shot. After the first shot he still didn't calm down so they shot him again. They used a stun gun to try and minimize the damage.

It wasn't the cops fault that the boy died from the stun gun. If anyone it's the boy's or it's Taser's.

What threat did this kid pose?

ZERO.

How do you know? :confused:

Because, judging from the facts presented in the story, all the kid did was yell he wanted Jesus. I don't think that warrants electrocution.

They did say he became combating, but that was only after the first shot. The insinuation is that he wasn't combative prior.
your reading comprehension sucks. he was combative BEFORE they tazed him and they warned him if he didn't stop being combative that they would taze him.

Crucify me. I obviously misread it.

lol. you were ready to crucify people based on what you thought you read...

Meh... already owned up to it.
 

Garet Jax

Diamond Member
Feb 21, 2000
6,369
0
71
Originally posted by: jbourne77
Assume much? Shoot first, ask questions later?

All ANY of us have are the facts from the article, and based on THOSE FACTS ALONE, the first shot was not justified.

I am not assuming anything. I am simply giving you the police officer's point of view. The police do not want to give someone who has any of the things I mentioned a chance to use them. So they use stun guns to incapacitate the person they are trying to apprehend so the police officers do not get hurt.
 

waggy

No Lifer
Dec 14, 2000
68,143
10
81
Another article on it.


Text<a target=_blank class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="http://www.zwire.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=17399364&BRD=1719&PAG=461&dept_id=25271&rfi=6">http://www.zwire.com/site/news.c...4&BRD=1719&PAG=461&dept_id=25271&rfi=6</a>


JERSEYVILLE - Police say they are investigating the death of a 17-year-old Dow youth who died after being Tasered at least twice by police during a weekend confrontation.

Authorities said Roger D. Holyfield Jr. died at 8:16 p.m. Sunday at Cardinal Glennon Children's Hospital in St. Louis, just one day after Jerseyville police used a Taser, an electric stun device, to subdue him at the intersection of Adams and South State Street.

Jerseyville Police Chief Brad Blackorby remained unavailable for comment Monday but issued a release giving the department's account.

Police officers responded around 8:56 p.m. Saturday to the 600 block of South State Street to find a man holding a Bible and a cordless phone yelling, "I want Jesus!" The subject was later identified as Holyfield.

Officers attempted to speak to Holyfield, but he became combative toward officers and would not respond to verbal commands, police said.

Holyfield was warned several times to stop being combative or risk being Tasered, police said. Even after the device was initially used, Holyfield continued to be combative and rolled around, dislodging the Taser probes. Holyfield continued to resist officers and the Taser was deployed a second time. Holyfield then physically pulled the probes out, police said.

After Jersey Community Hospital's ambulance arrived on the scene, Holyfield began vomiting. Officers assisted the ambulance crew with loading Holyfield and taking him to the hospital. Holyfield became unresponsive while the ambulance crew continued to work on him. He was then flown to Cardinal Glennon in St. Louis, where he died the following night.

The release does not state which police officers were involved in the incident.

News accounts that circulated Monday indicated the youth may have suffered bipolar disorder, but that could not be confirmed.

At least one witness agreed that Holyfield was out of control at the scene.

"He was struggling, he was resisting. They did what they could to hold him down," witness Dustin Lawson told reporters.

A second witness told The Telegraph there were at least four police cars, two Illinois State Police troopers and another man in street clothes surrounding Holyfield.

A third witness said there were more than enough officers there to subdue him without using the shock treatment. He said officers hit Holyfield a number of times during the encounter.

The Taser is a "non-lethal device used to subdue combative suspects," the police press release said. The Jerseyville Police Department has been deploying the Taser for the past five months, and previously the Jersey County Sheriff Department has deployed Tasers in the city for approximately one year. All officers received the required Taser training and were certified for use of the weapon. This included being Tased and witnessing other officers being Tased.

Blackborby's release said an investigation is under way but does not clarify if an outside agency is involved.

Illinois State Police District 18 commander Capt. Tim Reents, based in Litchfield, said his department is not handling the investigation. Neither is State Police District 11 in Collinsville, which houses the public integrity unit, said Lt. Mark Bramlett.

Personnel from the St. Louis City Medical Examiner's Office will conduct an autopsy this morning.

"The city of Jerseyville and the Police Department cannot comment any further at this time," the release said.

Alexander-Gubser Funeral Home in Jerseyville is handling funeral arrangements.

Funeral home director Larry Alexander said Roger Holyfield's family has declined to speak to the media regarding his death.

The victim is believed to have been an only child.

Jersey Community Unit School District 100 Superintendent Jim Whiteside verified that Holyfield was not a student of the school district but had been in the past.

A controversy has arisen over the use of Tasers, an acronym for the Thomas A. Swift Electric Rifle. According to an Associated Press article, Tasers have been either cited as a contributing factor or the cause of death in more than 180 people since 1986.

Tasers deliver a 50,000-volt jolt through two barbed darts (probes) that can penetrate clothing. The shock can be delivered a number of times while the barbs are in place.

maggie_borman@thetelegraph.com



The Taser is a "non-lethal device used to subdue combative suspects," the police press release said


well i guess thats not true eh?



"A second witness told The Telegraph there were at least four police cars, two Illinois State Police troopers and another man in street clothes surrounding Holyfield.

A third witness said there were more than enough officers there to subdue him without using the shock treatment. He said officers hit Holyfield a number of times during the encounter. "


hmm
 

Jahee

Platinum Member
Sep 21, 2006
2,072
0
0
Originally posted by: Garet Jax
Originally posted by: Jahee
Originally posted by: Garet Jax
Originally posted by: j00fek
another good showing from our pigs we call cops

Boy that's a generalization.

What would you rather they do? The boy was warned before being shot. After the first shot he still didn't calm down so they shot him again. They used a stun gun to try and minimize the damage.

It wasn't the cops fault that the boy died from the stun gun. If anyone it's the boy's or it's Taser's.

What Damage??

I was referring to the damage that can happen if multiple police tackle you and forcibly pin you to the ground to cuff you.

Hmm, i think that this maybe should be the first course of action, there was only 2 police, im a bit divided on this but i dont think the first action towoards him should have been the tasers, was he that much of a raving lunatic? that one officer could have tackled him and the other cuffed him? if i was a cop then i would rather give the kid a couple bruises than an electric shock... Then again i do realise i wasnt there so i cant really comment...
 

waggy

No Lifer
Dec 14, 2000
68,143
10
81
Originally posted by: Garet Jax
Originally posted by: jbourne77
Assume much? Shoot first, ask questions later?

All ANY of us have are the facts from the article, and based on THOSE FACTS ALONE, the first shot was not justified.

I am not assuming anything. I am simply giving you the police officer's point of view. The police do not want to give someone who has any of the things I mentioned a chance to use them. So they use stun guns to incapacitate the person they are trying to apprehend so the police officers do not get hurt.

yeah. those bibles are ****** dangerous.
 

pontifex

Lifer
Dec 5, 2000
43,804
46
91
Originally posted by: Garet Jax
Originally posted by: jbourne77
Assume much? Shoot first, ask questions later?

All ANY of us have are the facts from the article, and based on THOSE FACTS ALONE, the first shot was not justified.

I am not assuming anything. I am simply giving you the police officer's point of view. The police do not want to give someone who has any of the things I mentioned a chance to use them. So they use stun guns to incapacitate the person they are trying to apprehend so the police officers do not get hurt.

I'd love to see the people who are so against the police actually go out and be a police officer.
 

Garet Jax

Diamond Member
Feb 21, 2000
6,369
0
71
Originally posted by: Dean
Just maybe, the guy was not a threat and was taking a bad diabetic reaction or something.
Any cop afraid to end up with a bruise or a scratch should not be a cop in my opinion.

It is the boy's responsibility to protect himself - not the cop's. The boy should realize the cops aren't going away unless he listens to them. His best protection would have been to listen to the cops.

I'm not talking about a bruise or a scratch - there was no way to know the true threat the boy posed to the officers. Rather than finding out, they used their stun gun. It could be that the boy posed no threat, but it could be that the boy was HIV positive and wanted to swap blood with the officers. Again, the police shouldn't have to find out the hard way.
 

waggy

No Lifer
Dec 14, 2000
68,143
10
81
Originally posted by: Jahee
Originally posted by: Garet Jax
Originally posted by: Jahee
Originally posted by: Garet Jax
Originally posted by: j00fek
another good showing from our pigs we call cops

Boy that's a generalization.

What would you rather they do? The boy was warned before being shot. After the first shot he still didn't calm down so they shot him again. They used a stun gun to try and minimize the damage.

It wasn't the cops fault that the boy died from the stun gun. If anyone it's the boy's or it's Taser's.

What Damage??

I was referring to the damage that can happen if multiple police tackle you and forcibly pin you to the ground to cuff you.

Hmm, i think that this maybe should be the first course of action, there was only 2 police, im a bit divided on this but i dont think the first action towoards him should have been the tasers, was he that much of a raving lunatic? that one officer could have tackled him and the other cuffed him? if i was a cop then i would rather give the kid a couple bruises than an electric shock... Then again i do realise i wasnt there so i cant really comment...



according to another article there was more then 2 officers.

"A second witness told The Telegraph there were at least four police cars, two Illinois State Police troopers and another man in street clothes surrounding Holyfield.

A third witness said there were more than enough officers there to subdue him without using the shock treatment. He said officers hit Holyfield a number of times during the encounter. "
 

Aharami

Lifer
Aug 31, 2001
21,205
165
106
Originally posted by: moshquerade
Originally posted by: Aharami
why use a stun gun? are the cops that out of shape that 2 cant overpower one teenager?
according to the article they warned him numerous times to stop being combative or else they would stun him. he didn't comply. that's fair warning.

still. thats just lazy policing. they should only use stun guns when they cant subdue the person physically.