Shouting teen shot with stun gun, dies next day

[waggy]

http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/news/s...BA83E5B20862572180013F159?OpenDocument


JERSEYVILLE ? An autopsy is planned for today in the death of a 17-year-old youth who was carrying a Bible in one hand and a cordless house phone in the other when he was shot twice by police with a stun gun.

Roger D. Holyfield, a former student at Jersey Community High School, had been yelling, "I want Jesus." When approached by police in the 600 block of South State Street about 9 p.m. Saturday, he became combative and was shot twice with a Taser, according to a statement by the Jerseyville Police Department.

Holyfield died Sunday night at Cardinal Glennon Children's Medical Center in St. Louis.

Police are investigating the incident and wouldn't speak to a reporter Monday at the Police Department

According to the department statement, officials warned Holyfield "several times to stop being combative" or else they would use a Taser gun.

He was standing in a grass spot between the sidewalk and the street near a satellite TV business when he was hit with the Taser, police said.

Witnesses who did not want to be identified said Holyfield, who weighed about 130 pounds, also had been yelling for his mother. At least six officers tried to subdue Holyfield, witnesses said.

After he was shot once, Holyfield continued to struggle with officers and dislodged the Taser probes. He continued to fight, and police shot him again, the statement said.

When an ambulance arrived, Holyfield began vomiting. He was taken to a hospital, then flown to Cardinal Glennon, where he died about 8 p.m. Sunday.

Holyfield was a former Jersey Community High School student, but did not attend school this year, said James Whiteside, superintendent of Jerseyville schools.

The company that makes the guns, Taser International Inc., has been selling its stun-gun weapons to law enforcement agencies since 1998, according to an Associated Press report earlier this year. More than 175,000 Tasers are being used by more than 8,500 agencies in the United States.

Amnesty International has blamed Tasers for more than 120 deaths. A study published this year in the journal of the Society of Academic Emergency Medicine said that the Taser guns couldn't be linked to cardiac issues, but it recommended more research.

Nick Mamino Jr., 41, died in April after Collinsville police shot him with a Taser. Mamino's family had speculated that the gun might have caused his death. But that was only a contributing factor, according to an autopsy report.



yet another article with slightly diffrent info.

 

[Alex]

Originally posted by: yllus
*shrugs* Sorry kid, you brought it on yourself.

(Assuming he really did become combatative enough to warrant the stun.)

really dude how much of a combat threat can a bible-wielding 17 year old become matched up against 2 police officers?

that's just unnecessary use of force if you ask me... unless this kid also was like 6-6 250lbs or something

 

[Garet Jax]

Originally posted by: Jahee
Hmm, i think that this maybe should be the first course of action, there was only 2 police, im a bit divided on this but i dont think the first action towoards him should have been the tasers, was he that much of a raving lunatic? that one officer could have tackled him and the other cuffed him? if i was a cop then i would rather give the kid a couple bruises than an electric shock... Then again i do realise i wasnt there so i cant really comment...

The problem is that stun guns are so effective that hardened criminals who have experienced them once will literally give up rather than endure them again.

There is no reason for police officers to take unnecessary risks when they can use stun guns to achieve the same purpose with no risk.

 

[Aharami]

Originally posted by: Garet Jax

Originally posted by: Aharami
why use a stun gun? are the cops that out of shape that 2 cant overpower one teenager?

He could have had a gun or a knife. He could have been a street fighter. He could have a black belt in some martial art. He could have HIV or some other blood transferring disease.

Why should the cops find out the hard way?

all assumptions. doenst the police academy teach hand to hand combat anymore?

 

[Jahee]

Originally posted by: Aharami

Originally posted by: moshquerade

Originally posted by: Aharami
why use a stun gun? are the cops that out of shape that 2 cant overpower one teenager?

according to the article they warned him numerous times to stop being combative or else they would stun him. he didn't comply. that's fair warning.

still. thats just lazy policing. they should only use stun guns when they cant subdue the person physically.

I agree

 

[j00fek]

Originally posted by: moshquerade

Originally posted by: iamwiz82

Originally posted by: jbourne77

Originally posted by: Garet Jax

Originally posted by: j00fek
another good showing from our pigs we call cops

Boy that's a generalization.

What would you rather they do? The boy was warned before being shot. After the first shot he still didn't calm down so they shot him again. They used a stun gun to try and minimize the damage.

It wasn't the cops fault that the boy died from the stun gun. If anyone it's the boy's or it's Taser's.

What threat did this kid pose?

ZERO.

How do you know?

he doesn't.

like everyone in this thread. i base my comments on past showings of our great PIGS

 

[Garet Jax]

Originally posted by: waggy

according to another article there was more then 2 officers.

"A second witness told The Telegraph there were at least four police cars, two Illinois State Police troopers and another man in street clothes surrounding Holyfield.

A third witness said there were more than enough officers there to subdue him without using the shock treatment. He said officers hit Holyfield a number of times during the encounter. "

I don't care how many cops there were - they are using stung guns to make sure that none of them get hurt. I have no problems with it as long as they are not too speedy with it.

 

[pontifex]

Officers attempted to speak to Holyfield, but he became combative toward officers and would not respond to verbal commands, police said.

Holyfield was warned several times to stop being combative or risk being Tasered, police said. Even after the device was initially used, Holyfield continued to be combative and rolled around, dislodging the Taser probes. Holyfield continued to resist officers and the Taser was deployed a second time. Holyfield then physically pulled the probes out, police said.


sorry, listen to the fvcking police and you won't get your ass tasered. i see no problem with what the police did.

 

[Garet Jax]

Originally posted by: Aharami
still. thats just lazy policing. they should only use stun guns when they cant subdue the person physically.

Nope it's smart policing - the cops are protecting themselves.

 

[Jahee]

Originally posted by: Garet Jax

Originally posted by: Jahee
Hmm, i think that this maybe should be the first course of action, there was only 2 police, im a bit divided on this but i dont think the first action towoards him should have been the tasers, was he that much of a raving lunatic? that one officer could have tackled him and the other cuffed him? if i was a cop then i would rather give the kid a couple bruises than an electric shock... Then again i do realise i wasnt there so i cant really comment...

The problem is that stun guns are so effective that hardened criminals who have experienced them once will literally give up rather than endure them again.

There is no reason for police officers to take unnecessary risks when they can use stun guns to achieve the same purpose with no risk.

While i do see your point of view, i do think the fact that 2 officers using a stun gun on a "130 lb 17 year old" had an element of them wanting to try out their new "toys". Although like i said before i dont know the exact situation so i cant really comment.

 

[SarcasticDwarf]

Originally posted by: PottedMeat
it seems like cops are getting alot more liberal with the use of stun guns - what ever happened to just macing the crap out of someone? I think I'd rather be hit with pepper spray than shocked ( you never know if someone has a heart condition, I figure respiratory distress is easier to fix heh).

Tasers are billed as being a nonlethal alternative. The problem with this is that they ARE lethal in a significant number of cases. Police departments choose to ignore this and continue to use them as if they were nonlethal (meaning, liberally).

 

[Garet Jax]

Originally posted by: franguinho

Originally posted by: yllus
*shrugs* Sorry kid, you brought it on yourself.

(Assuming he really did become combatative enough to warrant the stun.)

really dude how much of a combat threat can a bible-wielding 17 year old become matched up against 2 police officers?

that's just unnecessary use of force if you ask me... unless this kid also was like 6-6 250lbs or something

Are you kidding me? The best fighter in my school was probably 5' 10" - 165 lbs soaking wet. Police do not judge a book by it's cover because it leads to surprises that can cost them their lives.

The police are not going to risk their lives because the boy looked normal.

 

[Garet Jax]

Originally posted by: Aharami

Originally posted by: Garet Jax

Originally posted by: Aharami
why use a stun gun? are the cops that out of shape that 2 cant overpower one teenager?

He could have had a gun or a knife. He could have been a street fighter. He could have a black belt in some martial art. He could have HIV or some other blood transferring disease.

Why should the cops find out the hard way?

all assumptions. doenst the police academy teach hand to hand combat anymore?

Why take the risk when stun guns are so effective?

 

[waggy]

Originally posted by: Jahee

Originally posted by: Garet Jax

Originally posted by: Jahee
Hmm, i think that this maybe should be the first course of action, there was only 2 police, im a bit divided on this but i dont think the first action towoards him should have been the tasers, was he that much of a raving lunatic? that one officer could have tackled him and the other cuffed him? if i was a cop then i would rather give the kid a couple bruises than an electric shock... Then again i do realise i wasnt there so i cant really comment...

The problem is that stun guns are so effective that hardened criminals who have experienced them once will literally give up rather than endure them again.

There is no reason for police officers to take unnecessary risks when they can use stun guns to achieve the same purpose with no risk.

While i do see your point of view, i do think the fact that 2 officers using a stun gun on a "130 lb 17 year old" had an element of them wanting to try out their new "toys". Although like i said before i dont know the exact situation so i cant really comment.

yeap. they had them for 5 months.


i still wonder why they were even bothering the kid.

Originally posted by: SarcasticDwarf
Tasers are billed as being a nonlethal alternative. The problem with this is that they ARE lethal in a significant number of cases. Police departments choose to ignore this and continue to use them as if they were nonlethal (meaning, liberally).

yeap

 

[Garet Jax]

Originally posted by: SarcasticDwarf

Originally posted by: PottedMeat
it seems like cops are getting alot more liberal with the use of stun guns - what ever happened to just macing the crap out of someone? I think I'd rather be hit with pepper spray than shocked ( you never know if someone has a heart condition, I figure respiratory distress is easier to fix heh).

Tasers are billed as being a nonlethal alternative. The problem with this is that they ARE lethal in a significant number of cases. Police departments choose to ignore this and continue to use them as if they were nonlethal (meaning, liberally).

Again - I would like to see the percentage of deaths as they relate to all apprehension methods.

I also want to see the deaths of the cops included.

 

[Kelvrick]

Originally posted by: franguinho

Originally posted by: yllus
*shrugs* Sorry kid, you brought it on yourself.

(Assuming he really did become combatative enough to warrant the stun.)

really dude how much of a combat threat can a bible-wielding 17 year old become matched up against 2 police officers?

that's just unnecessary use of force if you ask me... unless this kid also was like 6-6 250lbs or something

If they hadn't used a stun gun, the story would have been about how 4 police officers brutaly subdued a teenager while two could have easily pinned him to the ground and then there would have been all that police brutality fallout.

Mace isn't exactly safe either, if the kid had some kind of allergic reaction, it woulda been the same thing.

Also, maybe 6 officers weren't exactly needed but then I don't really want some skinny kid standing on a corner yelling for jesus and his mommy either. If nothing was done, wouldn't you same guys bagging on the cops be wondering why hasn't anyone taken him into a clinec for some help instead of eating their donuts?

 

[yllus]

Originally posted by: franguinho

Originally posted by: yllus
*shrugs* Sorry kid, you brought it on yourself.

(Assuming he really did become combatative enough to warrant the stun.)

really dude how much of a combat threat can a bible-wielding 17 year old become matched up against 2 police officers?

that's just unnecessary use of force if you ask me... unless this kid also was like 6-6 250lbs or something

A 5 foot 2 woman can do a rather impressive amount of damage if she puts her mind to it; with no previous physical training or combat skills.

Have none of you taken martial arts classes, wrestling, anything? Don't you all realize how much damage the most frail human can do to another if within arms' length?

With the human body alone, you're asking police officers to close the distance and make themselves open to biting, scratching with nails, headbutts, kicking and punching.

Then you introduce the possibility of disease. Are you willing to get your arm around a struggling teenager's throat so he can clamp his mouth down on it and take a chunk out of your arm? They're subduing a total unknown here, why should they have to take that risk?

Then you introduce the possibility of weapons. Knives, guns, even the Bible the guy was holding can cause some damage. Police officers aren't hired to be punching bags or bullet catchers.

Why shouldn't they avoid all of that and shock him into submission when that's a tool they've been provided and cleared to use? Maybe the Taser is statistically unsafe to use; that's not their fault. Blame their higher ups for making it free for use.

 

[pontifex]

Originally posted by: waggy

Originally posted by: Jahee

Originally posted by: Garet Jax

Originally posted by: Jahee
Hmm, i think that this maybe should be the first course of action, there was only 2 police, im a bit divided on this but i dont think the first action towoards him should have been the tasers, was he that much of a raving lunatic? that one officer could have tackled him and the other cuffed him? if i was a cop then i would rather give the kid a couple bruises than an electric shock... Then again i do realise i wasnt there so i cant really comment...

The problem is that stun guns are so effective that hardened criminals who have experienced them once will literally give up rather than endure them again.

There is no reason for police officers to take unnecessary risks when they can use stun guns to achieve the same purpose with no risk.

While i do see your point of view, i do think the fact that 2 officers using a stun gun on a "130 lb 17 year old" had an element of them wanting to try out their new "toys". Although like i said before i dont know the exact situation so i cant really comment.

yeap. they had them for 5 months.


i still wonder why they were even bothering the kid.

Originally posted by: SarcasticDwarf
Tasers are billed as being a nonlethal alternative. The problem with this is that they ARE lethal in a significant number of cases. Police departments choose to ignore this and continue to use them as if they were nonlethal (meaning, liberally).

yeap

disturbing the peace?
if some wackjob was outside my house or business yelling i want jesus, i'd call the police too.

 

[Stuxnet]

Originally posted by: Garet Jax

Originally posted by: Aharami

Originally posted by: Garet Jax

Originally posted by: Aharami
why use a stun gun? are the cops that out of shape that 2 cant overpower one teenager?

He could have had a gun or a knife. He could have been a street fighter. He could have a black belt in some martial art. He could have HIV or some other blood transferring disease.

Why should the cops find out the hard way?

all assumptions. doenst the police academy teach hand to hand combat anymore?

Why take the risk when stun guns are so effective?

Because we're finding that they're TOO effective?

 

[waggy]

Originally posted by: pontifex

Originally posted by: waggy

Originally posted by: Jahee

Originally posted by: Garet Jax

Originally posted by: Jahee
Hmm, i think that this maybe should be the first course of action, there was only 2 police, im a bit divided on this but i dont think the first action towoards him should have been the tasers, was he that much of a raving lunatic? that one officer could have tackled him and the other cuffed him? if i was a cop then i would rather give the kid a couple bruises than an electric shock... Then again i do realise i wasnt there so i cant really comment...

The problem is that stun guns are so effective that hardened criminals who have experienced them once will literally give up rather than endure them again.

There is no reason for police officers to take unnecessary risks when they can use stun guns to achieve the same purpose with no risk.

While i do see your point of view, i do think the fact that 2 officers using a stun gun on a "130 lb 17 year old" had an element of them wanting to try out their new "toys". Although like i said before i dont know the exact situation so i cant really comment.

yeap. they had them for 5 months.


i still wonder why they were even bothering the kid.

Originally posted by: SarcasticDwarf
Tasers are billed as being a nonlethal alternative. The problem with this is that they ARE lethal in a significant number of cases. Police departments choose to ignore this and continue to use them as if they were nonlethal (meaning, liberally).

yeap

disturbing the peace?
if some wackjob was outside my house or business yelling i want jesus, i'd call the police too.

perhaps. but is it worthy of arresting the guy? worth of sending out 6 officers?

he was yelling in the street. I think the cops over-reacted on this.

 

[pontifex]

Originally posted by: waggy

Originally posted by: pontifex

Originally posted by: waggy

Originally posted by: Jahee

Originally posted by: Garet Jax

Originally posted by: Jahee
Hmm, i think that this maybe should be the first course of action, there was only 2 police, im a bit divided on this but i dont think the first action towoards him should have been the tasers, was he that much of a raving lunatic? that one officer could have tackled him and the other cuffed him? if i was a cop then i would rather give the kid a couple bruises than an electric shock... Then again i do realise i wasnt there so i cant really comment...

The problem is that stun guns are so effective that hardened criminals who have experienced them once will literally give up rather than endure them again.

There is no reason for police officers to take unnecessary risks when they can use stun guns to achieve the same purpose with no risk.

While i do see your point of view, i do think the fact that 2 officers using a stun gun on a "130 lb 17 year old" had an element of them wanting to try out their new "toys". Although like i said before i dont know the exact situation so i cant really comment.

yeap. they had them for 5 months.


i still wonder why they were even bothering the kid.

Originally posted by: SarcasticDwarf
Tasers are billed as being a nonlethal alternative. The problem with this is that they ARE lethal in a significant number of cases. Police departments choose to ignore this and continue to use them as if they were nonlethal (meaning, liberally).

yeap

disturbing the peace?
if some wackjob was outside my house or business yelling i want jesus, i'd call the police too.

perhaps. but is it worthy of arresting the guy? worth of sending out 6 officers?

he was yelling in the street. I think the cops over-reacted on this.

Officers attempted to speak to Holyfield, but he became combative toward officers and would not respond to verbal commands, police said.

yeah, lets fight with police officers...:roll:
are you serious?

 

[Scarpozzi]

You says you want Jesus, mang??!!

 

[Aharami]

Originally posted by: Garet Jax

Originally posted by: Aharami
still. thats just lazy policing. they should only use stun guns when they cant subdue the person physically.

Nope it's smart policing - the cops are protecting themselves.

...when they really signed up to protect the citizens they serve. Cops shouldnt be cops if they are afraid of a few bruises. Its part of the job description. The kid is said to be bipolar, and he was 130 lbs. One cop could've cuffed the kid by himself. Im sorry, this nothing but extremely lazy policing.

Id understand the use of tasers if the kid was wielding a weapon...but last i checked, a bible isnt a weapon (depends on who you ask though ).

 

[Garet Jax]

Originally posted by: jbourne77

Because we're finding that they're TOO effective?

But are we?

How many deaths with bare hands?
How many deaths with billy clubs?
How many deaths were there when we subdued with guns drawn?
How many deaths with mace?
How many with pepper spray?
How many with tasers?

Again, I want to see both sides of the picture - cops and people being apprehended.

I can definitely say that it the boy hadn't been out there screaming, he would still be alive.
I can also say with relative assurance that if he had listened to the police officer's demands, he would likely still be alive.
I would also have told you before hand, that if he needed to be tasered to be apprehended, then he likely (99+%) would have survived.

 

[pontifex]

Originally posted by: Aharami

Originally posted by: Garet Jax

Originally posted by: Aharami
still. thats just lazy policing. they should only use stun guns when they cant subdue the person physically.

Nope it's smart policing - the cops are protecting themselves.

...when they signed up to protect the citizens they serve. Cops shouldnt be cops if they are afraid of a few bruises. Its part of the job description. The kid is said to be bipolar, and he was 130 lbs. One cop could've cuffed the kid by himself. Im sorry, this nothing but extremely lazy policing.

Id understand the use of tasers if the kid was wielding a weapon...but last i checked, a bible isnt a weapon (depends on who you ask though ).

i didn't know police had x-ray vision and could see into pockets. he could have had a gun or knife in his pockets or stuffed into his belt.