Should we lower the minimum wage?

[Ryan]

please tell me if I failed this course why you forget, after inflation comes depression.

Yes - you failed not only economics, but reading comprehension. Thank you for proving you are not capable of participating in the discussion at hand.

(For the record, we are not talking about economic cycles.)

 

[fskimospy]

Empirical studies of the minimum wage generally find a minor negative effect on employment, but it is mostly concentrated in teenagers, who generally aren't breadwinners.

I think there are better ways to reduce poverty than the minimum wage though, maybe an expansion of the EITC.

 

[Harvey]

please tell me if I failed this course why you forget, after inflation comes depression.

No, depression is what follows years of financial rape of a society by the few with financial power and the political clout to further their own self-perpetuating greed. That was the direct cause of the financial crash that led to the first great depression in the 30's and the second great depression following the Bushwhackos' abandonment of all economic oversight.

Depression is also brought on hearing the continual torrent of the same ecomimc and socialogical bullshit from mindless drones like you. Go home and practice, little boy. :thumbsdown:

 

[Tylanner]

Minimum wage is a check on capitalism.

Outsourcing jobs? Horrible politically. Glorious, deathly efficient and practically necessary in reality.

The government will never prevent our "made in xxxxx" economy and rightly so. It is a strategy being used by international competitors and playing along is the only viable way to survive. Moving them overseas allows a business to, with a little logistical knowhow, produce more, faster and with comparable quality (seemingly).

The only check on this is the "conscious consumer" but that is far from a strong deterrent in today’s more-for-less economy.

Moving it either way wouldn't be anything more than a political tug of war.

 

[nehalem256]

Think about this: Adjusted for inflation - the minimum wage in 1970 was $10 an hour. The minimum wage has actually been going down.....

Well you point is essentially true, it is also highly misleading.

 

[nehalem256]

I think there are better ways to reduce poverty than the minimum wage though, maybe an expansion of the EITC.

My understanding is that anti-poverty programs are not counted when figuring out who is in poverty.

As the EITC counted differently?

 

[Ryan]

Well you point is essentially true, it is also highly misleading.

It is not misleading you bumbling idiot - I said it was $10 adjust for inflation - thanks for providing a graph that proves my fucking point.

 

[soundforbjt]

You can't live on minimum wage, that's why only high schoolers make it. Everyone else is on welfare.

Look no further than America's largest employer,,,Walmart.

 

[nehalem256]

It is not misleading you bumbling idiot - I said it was $10 adjust for inflation - thanks for providing a graph that proves my fucking point.

Its misleading because you were attempting to imply that a $10 minimum wage is "normal".

The graph clearly shows that a $10 minimum wage is an aberration.

 

[soundforbjt]

Its misleading because you were attempting to imply that a $10 minimum wage is "normal".

The graph clearly shows that a $10 minimum wage is an aberration.

And the average for over two decades was over $8.00.

 

[nehalem256]

And the average for over two decades was over $8.00.

And that detracts from the idea that looking at an aberrational high in minimum wage and concluding that is the correct minimum wage is utter BS how?

 

[Ryan]

Its misleading because you were attempting to imply that a $10 minimum wage is "normal".

The graph clearly shows that a $10 minimum wage is an aberration.

I never attempted to imply it was normal - my point is that the buying power of a person on minimum wage has gone down over the past 40 years, necessitating an increase in minimum wage. I was only drawing a comparison between where we have been, and where we are now. Obama was right - it should be tied to inflation.

Remember - Obama is not suggesting we even go that high.

 

[nehalem256]

I never attempted to imply it was normal - my point is that the buying power of a person on minimum wage has gone down over the past 40 years, necessitating an increase in minimum wage. i was only drawing a comparison between where we have been, and where we are now. Obama was right - it should be tied to inflation.

Remember - Obama is not suggesting we even go that high.

And your choice of comparison points was deeply misleading. If you look at the top 20 years of minimum wage it appears you will only find a single one that is much if any over $9/hr.

And I agree with the tying it to inflation proposal.

 

[Zebo]

Yes we should get rid of child labor laws and all EEOC stuff too and be more competitive...where we are virtual salves to capital overlords. I like how in China the real self centered ones who can't handle it jumps out of factory windows. Culls the heard.

 

[randomrogue]

I'd say that minimum wage should be something like 150% of the poverty level. So if you're single and head of household that would be $8.29 an hour. Still peanuts. If you're living on the coasts you can't really survive on this but I'm kinda a fan of the whole "move if you can't live there" approach.

As a business owner if you can't make money paying that salary then you don't belong in business.

Now this is really scraping the bottom of the barrel. If we want to help our society and get people out of poverty then we can't be paying these kinds of wages.

 

[Ausm]

Look no further than America's largest employer,,,Walmart.

Where is the Rightist outrage for Americans having to subsidize 70% of their workforce?

 

[Throckmorton]

I'd say that minimum wage should be something like 150% of the poverty level. So if you're single and head of household that would be $8.29 an hour. Still peanuts. If you're living on the coasts you can't really survive on this but I'm kinda a fan of the whole "move if you can't live there" approach.

As a business owner if you can't make money paying that salary then you don't belong in business.

Now this is really scraping the bottom of the barrel. If we want to help our society and get people out of poverty then we can't be paying these kinds of wages.

So you move to "where you can live" and where is your job? Jobs don't just freaking materialize out of thin air because you need one. In your mind is everybody working from home or something?

But yes, we will fail if so many people are making less than a living wage

 

[ElFenix]

Empirical studies of the minimum wage generally find a minor negative effect on employment, but it is mostly concentrated in teenagers, who generally aren't breadwinners.

I think there are better ways to reduce poverty than the minimum wage though, maybe an expansion of the EITC.

little known fact: EITC can't reduce the official poverty measure because the official measure doesn't take into consideration the kind of transfer the EITC is.

 

[fskimospy]

little known fact: EITC can't reduce the official poverty measure because the official measure doesn't take into consideration the kind of transfer the EITC is.

I was referring to actual poverty, as helping the poor is the important part, not prettying up statistics.

 

[Zebo]

Minimum wage is a check on capitalism.

Outsourcing jobs? Horrible politically. Glorious, deathly efficient and practically necessary in reality.

The government will never prevent our "made in xxxxx" economy and rightly so. It is a strategy being used by international competitors and playing along is the only viable way to survive. Moving them overseas allows a business to, with a little logistical knowhow, produce more, faster and with comparable quality (seemingly).

The only check on this is the "conscious consumer" but that is far from a strong deterrent in today’s more-for-less economy.

Moving it either way wouldn't be anything more than a political tug of war.

It's not effceint at all. You pay one way or the other for those displaced workers. Either with re-education cost which lead nowhere, social welfare, torn up communities, crime and so on. You always gotta pay.

Some people see cheap goods at WalMart but that playing one move chess on a three move board because every year that goes by we get more in debt sustaining the job loss, our marginal populations grow, their job skills deteriorate to a point of unemployability period no matter how good economy gets..

Don't fool yourself off-shoring was put there to make millionaire CEO's/shareholders and shill economists Billionaires.

 

[snarfbot]

minimum wage is 7.25, after taxes you would be lucky to buy a gallon of milk with an hour of your work.

who would be willing to work for less than that?

 

[Zebo]

minimum wage is 7.25, after taxes you would be lucky to buy a gallon of milk with an hour of your work.

who would be willing to work for less than that?

Depends if they are starving or not. Right now social welfare kicks in so they wont but if Repblucans starve the beast tactics work and there is no social welfare and they get done shooting the rioters. they will and even less.

 

[nehalem256]

I'd say that minimum wage should be something like 150% of the poverty level. So if you're single and head of household that would be $8.29 an hour. Still peanuts. If you're living on the coasts you can't really survive on this but I'm kinda a fan of the whole "move if you can't live there" approach.

As a business owner if you can't make money paying that salary then you don't belong in business.

Now this is really scraping the bottom of the barrel. If we want to help our society and get people out of poverty then we can't be paying these kinds of wages.

I agree with your analysis. I made a similar argument using 35hr work weeks and 125% of the poverty line which came out at ~$8/hr I believe.

 

[glenn1]

So you move to "where you can live" and where is your job? Jobs don't just freaking materialize out of thin air because you need one. In your mind is everybody working from home or something?

But yes, we will fail if so many people are making less than a living wage

So close - you almost have a complete logical thought there. Let me help; jobs don't "freaking materialize out of thin air" when the candidate is unable to provide value to the potential employer over the cost of his pay. No matter how much you desire for people to hire workers at your "living wage" they won't. You yourself wouldn't even pay a "living wage" to someone without a value proposition to offer you, which makes that you asking for others to do so all that much more ludicrous.

 

[nehalem256]

minimum wage is 7.25, after taxes you would be lucky to buy a gallon of milk with an hour of your work.

who would be willing to work for less than that?

You do realize that someone making $7.25/hr is only going to be paying FICA right?

In what world do you live in where milk is $6.75 a gallon?