Should we lower the minimum wage?

[theeedude]

Get rid of it. There's no area of the economy that benefits from the government setting price ceilings or floors.

not true

Yeah.... because minimum wage laws are what make countries rich or poor.

true

 

[Throckmorton]

Businesses hire employees to make them money.

So let's say you lower the minimum wage from $7.25 to $5.25. Who will hire more employees because of that change? Only business who profit at 5.25 but not at 7.25. And that $2 has to be worth the hassle of hiring and training the person.

Sounds ridiculous to me.

 

[Infohawk]

true

You honestly think that a country is poor or rich based on its minimum wage laws? Do you think Nigeria would become a first world nation if it legislated $20 an hour minimum wage? Do you consider Singapore a poor country?

 

[Craig234]

I say it's a bad idea, but if Americans are stupid enough to perpetrate it on themselves, I'll take full advantage of the cheap labor. My friends here who come from third world sh!tholes always say how they have maids and cooks and drivers, and it's dirt cheap over there.

When we talk about how the right wants to recreate oligarchy and destroy the middle class, rolling things back before the Roosevelts, we can note in 1900 that with the average US income adjusted for inflation $10,000 (for a 59 hour work week), 18% of homes still had at least one full-time domestic employee, they were that badly paid.

 

[Craig234]

I find myself in partial agreement with Craig on this one. The Minimum Wage exists for good reason, and clearly should not be abolished. OTOH, I don't believe it's possible (however attractive) to bring the rest of the world up to US standards.

Let me return the agreement - we can't bring the rest of the world 'up to US standards'. For resource alone, we'd need like five planet earths for copying our consumption.

But I'm saying that our policies should try to raise others rather than pull the US down to the extent possible. Unfortunately, almost no one has that agenda (but progressives).

 

[bamacre]

I posted this question because I knew a lot of the left-leaning posters would oppose such an idea (yes, I admit I had an ulterior motive in the OP). My question for them is, do you support the devaluation of our currency to lower the cost of labor, and thus lower the cost of our exports? I understand the two actions are not the same, and have different results, but the ideas behind each are quite similar.

 

[Craig234]

You honestly think that a country is poor or rich based on its minimum wage laws? Do you think Nigeria would become a first world nation if it legislated $20 an hour minimum wage? Do you consider Singapore a poor country?

The minimum wage is a very important part of increasing the wealth of the middle class, of breaking the power imbalance where the rich can pay sustinence to workers.

It's not the only thing - there are many policies about creating wealth that are also important for the society.

It's ridiculous to argue that any minimum wage, or setting it at $10 instead of $5, is the same issue as 'why not make it $1,000 an hour, money grows on trees'.

 

[ayabe]

Most people making minimum wage who have kids are receiving some form of government assistance, lowering their wages will just force the gap to be made up by Uncle Sam.

Things are never as simple as they seem.

 

[ayabe]

I posted this question because I knew a lot of the left-leaning posters would oppose such an idea (yes, I admit I had an ulterior motive in the OP). My question for them is, do you support the devaluation of our currency to lower the cost of labor, and thus lower the cost of our exports? I understand the two actions are not the same, and have different results, but the ideas behind each are quite similar.

Thus triggering a trade war with China, they have us by the balls and were we to push such a policy, they would respond by lowering their currency even further.

Anyone happen to see how badly the markets took a shit today when China hiked rates by .25%?

 

[Red Dawn]

Put a tariff on all imports coming from Asia (with the exception of S.Korea and Japan) and Central Asia.

 

[bamacre]

Put a tariff on all imports coming from Asia (with the exception of S.Korea and Japan) and Central Asia.

And if they respond with the same?

 

[Red Dawn]

And if they respond with the same?

It'll become profitable to make it here.

 

[Schadenfroh]

It'll become profitable to make it here.

Who, save for Americans, would purchase the goods manufactured here, given a similar product from another country that is cheaper? The third-world will always best us on lower priced goods, does it really matter to the rest of the world if a product is made in the US or another country if they are not making it themselves? They will pick the cheapest.

 

[her209]

Who, save for Americans, would purchase the goods manufactured here, given a similar product from another country that is cheaper? The third-world will always best us on lower priced goods, does it really matter to the rest of the world if a product is made in the US or another country if they are not making it themselves? They will pick the cheapest.

Keep paying them less and that's the only option they'll be able to afford.

 

[Brigandier]

It seems to me that we can increase our exports and lower unemployment by lowering the cost of wages. If we were to lower the minimum wage, labor could be cheaper, and exports should increase. Also, because labor is cheaper, there should be less outsourcing of jobs. Good idea, or no?

Only if we lower everyone else's wages as well.

 

[hellotyler]

ONly if you can reduce inflation as well. Otherwise poor people will be working 2 hours just to pay for their lunch at McD's.

 

[piasabird]

I use to work for about $3.30 an hour. The question is do we want most of the work force to live in huts?

 

[her209]

I use to work for about $3.30 an hour. The question is do we want most of the work force to live in huts?

Are those huts made by Chinese workers for $3.30 a day?

 

[piasabird]

I cant afford to eat out a lot so I am in the same boat. I consider eating out to be a luxury.

 

[theeedude]

You honestly think that a country is poor or rich based on its minimum wage laws? Do you think Nigeria would become a first world nation if it legislated $20 an hour minimum wage?

They would be better off with some minimum wage. Right now they are a banana republic only upheld by oil exports, not internal demand.

Do you consider Singapore a poor country?

Maybe not, but it's not one we should imitate in terms of labor laws:
http://www.hrw.org/en/news/2005/12/06/singapore-domestic-workers-suffer-grave-abuses

 

[werepossum]

They would be better off with some minimum wage. Right now they are a banana republic only upheld by oil exports, not internal demand.

Maybe not, but it's not one we should imitate in terms of labor laws:
http://www.hrw.org/en/news/2005/12/06/singapore-domestic-workers-suffer-grave-abuses

Nigeria would not be better with some minimum wage. All such labor laws are a drain on the economy, and a nation has to be able to afford such a drain. Nigeria cannot, it would simply collapse into oil producers and subsistence farming/mass starvation. When it can afford such laws, it will probably adopt them.

 

[Phokus]

I agree, we should lower the minimum wage so we can compete with 50 cents an hour and Americans can eat dirt for breakfast, lunch, and dinner. Well played, OP, well played.

 

[bamacre]

I agree, we should lower the minimum wage so we can compete with 50 cents an hour and Americans can eat dirt for breakfast, lunch, and dinner. Well played, OP, well played.

This is exactly the kind of response I knew I'd get, and this is exactly why I created the OP.

Nevertheless, our current government is busy printing dollars, to devalue it, so our labor costs the rest of the world less. They are saying that if we take a pay cut, more people can afford to pay for our work, increasing the work we do, increasing exports, and lowering unemployment.

Instead of lowering the amount of dollars, they sneakily lower the value of each dollar. I don't agree with doing this, either, but it's interesting to see how the Left reacts to these two scenarios. Adamantly opposed to doing it one way, all the while their overlords are busy doing this, only in a more deceitful manner.

 

[MrColin]

OP is probably correct. Bringing back slavery will also do wonders for the economy.

 

[Phokus]

This is exactly the kind of response I knew I'd get, and this is exactly why I created the OP.

Nevertheless, our current government is busy printing dollars, to devalue it, so our labor costs the rest of the world less. They are saying that if we take a pay cut, more people can afford to pay for our work, increasing the work we do, increasing exports, and lowering unemployment.

Instead of lowering the amount of dollars, they sneakily lower the value of each dollar. I don't agree with doing this, either, but it's interesting to see how the Left reacts to these two scenarios. Adamantly opposed to doing it one way, all the while their overlords are busy doing this, only in a more deceiving manner.

The supply of labor far outstrips the demand for labor and the ease in which you can move capital around the world is so incredibly efficient, now capitalists are even outsourcing factories out of China and into places like Vietnam because the peasants are getting 'uppity' about being treated like slaves who work 6/7 days a week and paid a pittance. This is why your LOLbertarian fantasy of free markets solving everything is retarded.

I'm sorry you never saw a supply/demand curve before