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Should we lower the minimum wage?

bamacre

bamacre

Lifer
It seems to me that we can increase our exports and lower unemployment by lowering the cost of wages. If we were to lower the minimum wage, labor could be cheaper, and exports should increase. Also, because labor is cheaper, there should be less outsourcing of jobs. Good idea, or no?
 
bamacre said:
It seems to me that we can increase our exports and lower unemployment by lowering the cost of wages. If we were to lower the minimum wage, labor could be cheaper, and exports should increase. Also, because labor is cheaper, there should be less outsourcing of jobs. Good idea, or no?
Click to expand...

No. Of course we can always get some 'good results' by workers working for less, and less, and less, and eventually slavery.

That's not our goal as a society which should be the opposite, for as many as possible to have as much wealth as possible.

The minimum wage is an essential tool for preventing the race to the bottom of people working for just enough to eat, and it's too low.

Rather than having international competition be used to break labor organization and pull American workers down, a global approach should be made to pull others up.
 
When we raised it conservatives told of the unintended consequences it would bring and harm to the economy and jobs.

Look what happened - we were right. Abolish the minimum wage.
 
bamacre said:
It seems to me that we can increase our exports and lower unemployment by lowering the cost of wages. If we were to lower the minimum wage, labor could be cheaper, and exports should increase. Also, because labor is cheaper, there should be less outsourcing of jobs. Good idea, or no?
Click to expand...
If we lower the minimum wage to 50 cents an hour, we'll be able to compete with the Chinese. And if we allow young children to work, we might even be at a competitive advantage.

Removing all those pesky OSHA standards would lower costs even further. In fact, let's get rid of the FDA and EPA while we're at it.

If we really let the entrepreneurial spirit take over America, there's almost no third-world country we wouldn't be able to out-compete.
 
shira said:
If we lower the minimum wage to 50 cents an hour, we'll be able to compete with the Chinese. And if we allow young children to work, we might even be at a competitive advantage.

Removing all those pesky OSHA standards would lower costs even further. In fact, let's get rid of the FDA and EPA while we're at it.

If we really let the entrepreneurial spirit take over America, there's almost no third-world country we wouldn't be able to out-compete.
Click to expand...

When did you finally see the light? That's EXACTLY what we need to do.
 
I say it's a bad idea, but if Americans are stupid enough to perpetrate it on themselves, I'll take full advantage of the cheap labor. My friends here who come from third world sh!tholes always say how they have maids and cooks and drivers, and it's dirt cheap over there.
 
bamacre said:
It seems to me that we can increase our exports and lower unemployment by lowering the cost of wages. If we were to lower the minimum wage, labor could be cheaper, and exports should increase. Also, because labor is cheaper, there should be less outsourcing of jobs. Good idea, or no?
Click to expand...

The answer is clearly no, and I'll provide you with a practical, non-ideological reason. Manufacturing jobs in this country are nowhere near the minimum wage. They are typically 2-4x minimum wage. Accordingly, lowering the minimum wage wouldn't affect the cost of manufacturing in this country, and wouldn't reduce outsourcing one bit.

It would greatly increase the profits of McDonalds, Taco Bell, and Burger King though. So there's that...

- wolf
 
spidey07 said:
When we raised it conservatives told of the unintended consequences it would bring and harm to the economy and jobs.

Look what happened - we were right. Abolish the minimum wage.
Click to expand...

You "conservatives" also claimed nobody works for minimum wage except high school students. Which is it?
 
spidey07 said:
When did you finally see the light? That's EXACTLY what we need to do.
Click to expand...

As long as I get my unfettered opportunity to succeed, why should I be bothered with the miserable lives of the American peon class?

Once we cancel Obamacare and jack up domestic food prices, the poor and middle-class will be forced in desperation to sell us rich folk their body parts: They'll get a few more weeks of debased survival; we'll get fresh organs to rejuvenate our entrepreneurial bodies. It's a win-win situation.
 
Ldir said:
You "conservatives" also claimed nobody works for minimum wage except high school students. Which is it?
Click to expand...

Don't flatter them by calling them "conservatives" they are no where remotely conservative. No one thats supported GOP in the last 20yrs can claim to be conservatives

Self righteous demigogs is more accurate
 
shira said:
If we lower the minimum wage to 50 cents an hour, we'll be able to compete with the Chinese. And if we allow young children to work, we might even be at a competitive advantage.

Removing all those pesky OSHA standards would lower costs even further. In fact, let's get rid of the FDA and EPA while we're at it.

If we really let the entrepreneurial spirit take over America, there's almost no third-world country we wouldn't be able to out-compete.
Click to expand...
Lets open up employment to anyone who wants to come the US so long as they meet the requirements. That should increase the pool of qualified labor for white collar jobs, thereby bringing down costs even more!
 
woolfe9999 said:
The answer is clearly no, and I'll provide you with a practical, non-ideological reason. Manufacturing jobs in this country are nowhere near the minimum wage. They are typically 2-4x minimum wage. Accordingly, lowering the minimum wage wouldn't affect the cost of manufacturing in this country, and wouldn't reduce outsourcing one bit.

It would greatly increase the profits of McDonalds, Taco Bell, and Burger King though. So there's that...

- wolf
Click to expand...
There are some garment manufacturing jobs that still pay minimum wage, but most of those are already outsourced. I suspect you are essentially correct though.

We have to figure out how to keep manufacturing jobs without leading to non-competitiveness globally in order to retain a true middle class in this country. Becoming more competitive in the race to the bottom does not seem to me to be a good way to accomplish this, as it would leave us with many of the same problems (diverging wealth and its attendant pressures to seize and redistribute) that we have now. We would have to trash our environmental and heath laws as well, since they add much of our cost, and to be competitive we'd have to gut our entire economy and our way of life. Technology is largely free to migrate to the cheapest labor. In order to compete with someone willing to live twelve in a hut and eat rice three meals a day, we'd have to be willing to do the same AND depress our economy to make housing and rice competitive in cost. Doesn't seem to be much point in that.
 
spidey07 said:
When we raised it conservatives told of the unintended consequences it would bring and harm to the economy and jobs.

Look what happened - we were right. Abolish the minimum wage.
Click to expand...

Ldir said:
You "conservatives" also claimed nobody works for minimum wage except high school students. Which is it?
Click to expand...

I don't think anything he has posted as said otherwise. Where do you get the idea that he refuted a conservative claim that nobody works for minimum wage except high school students?

My understanding of minumum wage typically only affects students/part time workers while greatly increasing the costs for companies that employe large number of these types of workers affecting their ability to grow/pay higher wage earners

I am not in favor of abolishing it as that may cause a drastic decrease in wages in the long term but do not see any real risk in lowering it some
 
her209 said:
Lets open up employment to anyone who wants to come the US so long as they meet the requirements. That should increase the pool of qualified labor for white collar jobs, thereby bringing down costs even more!
Click to expand...
Qualifications are for sissies. I hear Haitians are willing to work for pennies an hour. I say, let them in. And with their high incidence of HIV, we'll get the benefit of their paying into Social Security combined with their zero chance of surviving long enough to ever get a SS check. Win win win win win. Open the floodgates.
 
GuitarDaddy said:
Don't flatter them by calling them "conservatives" they are no where remotely conservative. No one thats supported GOP in the last 20yrs can claim to be conservatives

Self righteous demigogs is more accurate
Click to expand...

That's why I put it in quotes. They're a bunch of clueless spolied brats.
 
woolfe9999 said:
The answer is clearly no, and I'll provide you with a practical, non-ideological reason. Manufacturing jobs in this country are nowhere near the minimum wage. They are typically 2-4x minimum wage. Accordingly, lowering the minimum wage wouldn't affect the cost of manufacturing in this country, and wouldn't reduce outsourcing one bit.

It would greatly increase the profits of McDonalds, Taco Bell, and Burger King though. So there's that...

- wolf
Click to expand...

This. Lowering minimum wage won't do anything to return manufacturing jobs to the US.
 
bamacre said:
It seems to me that we can increase our exports and lower unemployment by lowering the cost of wages. If we were to lower the minimum wage, labor could be cheaper, and exports should increase. Also, because labor is cheaper, there should be less outsourcing of jobs. Good idea, or no?
Click to expand...



I find myself in partial agreement with Craig on this one. The Minimum Wage exists for good reason, and clearly should not be abolished. OTOH, I don't believe it's possible (however attractive) to bring the rest of the world up to US standards.

A more pragmatic solution would be for Government to work with Business to find alternative ways to make it more attractive to exist/operate inside the USA rather than move elsewhere. Yes - Taxes are a part of it. But also basic research and assistance to create new industry to replace what has been lost.

Not to mention the inescapable fact that overall the US workforce is getting dumber and dumber relative to their/our overseas counterparts - Partly due to our declining standards, and partly due to other countrys bettering their own schools. Enforce Competitive standards at US Schools while giving them the tools needed to succeed. i.e. a US High School student should be as educated and skilled as a Japanese... as a German... as a Korean... or Canadian.. or Brit... Our Graduate and (especially) Post Graduate schools are good to excellent - But also ridiculously expensive.
 
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isn't federal minimum wage 5.15 a hour? If companies that have work that only needs minimum wage people cant do it at that price they aren't going to do it at all.
 
At this point lowering it would do nothing. Wage expectations are what they are. We can stop increasing though, there's no point in making our exports even less desirable.
 
woolfe9999 said:
The answer is clearly no, and I'll provide you with a practical, non-ideological reason. Manufacturing jobs in this country are nowhere near the minimum wage. They are typically 2-4x minimum wage. Accordingly, lowering the minimum wage wouldn't affect the cost of manufacturing in this country, and wouldn't reduce outsourcing one bit.

It would greatly increase the profits of McDonalds, Taco Bell, and Burger King though. So there's that...

- wolf
Click to expand...

It'd take a lot of strain on non-profits that hire younger people at minimum wage, such as the YMCA. Drop in the bucket compared to fast food companies, but minimum wage increases can really bite at these types of non-profits.
 
Get rid of it. There's no area of the economy that benefits from the government setting price ceilings or floors.

senseamp said:
Yeah, let's turn US into a banana republic like GOP wants to.
Click to expand...

Yeah.... because minimum wage laws are what make countries rich or poor.
 
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