Should panhandling be illegal?

[FoBoT]

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: FoBoT
yes, or at least doing it in the street

in the past year, it has become very popular on certain intersections in Kansas City to "sell" M&M's or pixie sticks or slips of paper. its just a ruse to beg for money. if they are allowed to block/disrupt traffic , then i should be able to run over them. they are really starting to piss me off :disgust:

Now this is different. They are blocking traffic and breaking public safety laws. THAT is their crime, not the action of asking for money or selling things.

ok, that makes sense. the police here don't seem to care, they let them keep on doing it. it really sucks.

i have thought about taking my video camera and taping them and taking the tape to a city council meeting and asking about it

 

[Konigin]

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: Konigin

Originally posted by: dartworth
Why should it be illegal. They have rights too.

Just because they make you feel uncomfortable, doesn't mean they don't have the right to do what they do.

Since when is panhandling a right? I really don't care what they want to do. But to say someone has a right to do any random thing they want to do is totally ridiculous.

Um, panhandling is a form of SPEECH. "Can I have some money?" <---That is SPEECH and it is protected by the First Amendment.

YOU, on the other hand, have NO right to be free of offense or annoyance caused by my speech.

Understand?

I gather you did not comprehend the "I really don't care what they want to do" part of my post?

Sure, saying the words are a form of speech, but the action of beggin for money is not a right. Panhandling is also a form of trespassing and solicitation.

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: FoBoT
standing in traffic blocking the road isn't a form of speech

Read the thread, I addressed this.

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: Konigin

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: Konigin

Originally posted by: dartworth
Why should it be illegal. They have rights too.

Just because they make you feel uncomfortable, doesn't mean they don't have the right to do what they do.

Since when is panhandling a right? I really don't care what they want to do. But to say someone has a right to do any random thing they want to do is totally ridiculous.

Um, panhandling is a form of SPEECH. "Can I have some money?" <---That is SPEECH and it is protected by the First Amendment.

YOU, on the other hand, have NO right to be free of offense or annoyance caused by my speech.

Understand?

I gather you did not comprehend the "I really don't care what they want to do" part of my post?

Sure, saying the words are a form of speech, but the action of beggin for money is not a right. Panhandling is also a form of trespassing and solicitation.

Asking for money IS a right. It is speech. Trespassing is another crime, just as blocking traffic is. If they do either, lock 'em up. But simply asking for money is protected as free speech.

 

[Thraxen]

Because there is an excessive noise ordinance. Try passing that on a crowded city street during the day.

Yeah, so what you said was not technically correct now was it? That was my point

<-- look, I'm rolling my eyes too!

 

Quote

Because there is an excessive noise ordinance. Try passing that on a crowded city street during the day.


Yeah, so what you said was not technically correct now was it? That was my point <-- look, I'm rolling my eyes too!

Technically? I don't see where he is wrong. Technically it's illegal to say "I'm going to kill the president". So, what is your point?

 

[Thraxen]

Technically? I don't see where he is wrong. Technically it's illegal to say "I'm going to kill the president". So, what is your point?

Ummm... you just argued my point... well sort of. He said that no one had the right to not be annoyed by his free speech. I gave an example where that was not true. What's not to understand?

 

[cheesewhiz]

Originally posted by: Konigin

Originally posted by: dartworth
Why should it be illegal. They have rights too.

Just because they make you feel uncomfortable, doesn't mean they don't have the right to do what they do.

Since when is panhandling a right? I really don't care what they want to do. But to say someone has a right to do any random thing they want to do is totally ridiculous.

since when is anything thats not specifically defined by law NOT a right? ugh.

 

[Kilgor]

Originally posted by: SammySon

They have the right to panhandle is that in the bill of rights? I don?t remember seeing anything about loitering and harassing other people in there. I think it all depends on the laws in your community. Personally I don?t mind panhandlers as long as they don?t get aggressive. I don?t usually give them any money because all they?ll do is blow it on a bottle or drugs.

Using the Bill of Rights is not a very strong argument. I don't see your right to drive a car in there. Or your right to be on the internet. Or your right to own a phone. I understand where you're coming from, but it's really not applicable here.

You?re assuming they want to go out get jobs and live in houses. I?d bet you only a small minority of them want jobs, houses or the responsibilities that go with them.

You're assuming that they didn't have everything you mentioned in there life, ever. It's not like these people are born on the streets, and raised from birth on the sidewalk. They were mostly normal poeple like you and I, with many many bad breaks.

I thought the use Bill of Rights was justifiable if you take into consideration the statements of the person I was quoting. Besides driving a car, phones and the Internet are all privileges not rights or at least they used to be, you never know nowadays they might have slipped in a few new amendments when I wasn?t looking.

I wasn?t assuming that all homeless people never had homes or lives, a lot of them probably did but they lost them for a reason and no matter how much the Government spends or how many shelters you build those reasons aren?t going to change. When I look at the Homeless most of what I see nowadays are semi healthy young to middle aged men, granted there are some families and women. It?s just kind of hard to get to get my sympathy when I see someone of my own age begging for change under a Help Wanted sign at the 7 Eleven.

 

[dartworth]

Originally posted by: Konigin

Originally posted by: dartworth
Why should it be illegal. They have rights too.

Just because they make you feel uncomfortable, doesn't mean they don't have the right to do what they do.

Since when is panhandling a right? I really don't care what they want to do. But to say someone has a right to do any random thing they want to do is totally ridiculous.

If you live in the US...please leave right now.

 

[Konigin]

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: Konigin

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: Konigin

Originally posted by: dartworth
Why should it be illegal. They have rights too.

Just because they make you feel uncomfortable, doesn't mean they don't have the right to do what they do.

Since when is panhandling a right? I really don't care what they want to do. But to say someone has a right to do any random thing they want to do is totally ridiculous.

Um, panhandling is a form of SPEECH. "Can I have some money?" <---That is SPEECH and it is protected by the First Amendment.

YOU, on the other hand, have NO right to be free of offense or annoyance caused by my speech.

Understand?

I gather you did not comprehend the "I really don't care what they want to do" part of my post?

Sure, saying the words are a form of speech, but the action of beggin for money is not a right. Panhandling is also a form of trespassing and solicitation.

Asking for money IS a right. It is speech. Trespassing is another crime, just as blocking traffic is. If they do either, lock 'em up. But simply asking for money is protected as free speech.

Asking or beggin for money is not a right. Thats like saying it is legal for me to threaten people, its not, it would be a form of harassment, sure I have the right to say it, but that doesn't mean what I'm saying is legal. Asking anyone for anything is a form of solocitation. To solicit for anything on private or public property is generally illegal, unless they are in possession of a license.

 

[guapo337]

making it illegal would make it yet another VICTIMLESS CRIME.

 

[Amused]

Ninth Amendment:

The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

People, the rights listed in the Bill of Rights are NOT the only rights we have, nor were they ever meant to be. Arugments that they are is the very reason amny of our Founding Fathers were opposed to any Bill of Rights. They assumed that since the government had no power to take rights away, one wouldn't be needed.

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: Konigin

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: Konigin

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: Konigin

Originally posted by: dartworth
Why should it be illegal. They have rights too.

Just because they make you feel uncomfortable, doesn't mean they don't have the right to do what they do.

Since when is panhandling a right? I really don't care what they want to do. But to say someone has a right to do any random thing they want to do is totally ridiculous.

Um, panhandling is a form of SPEECH. "Can I have some money?" <---That is SPEECH and it is protected by the First Amendment.

YOU, on the other hand, have NO right to be free of offense or annoyance caused by my speech.

Understand?

I gather you did not comprehend the "I really don't care what they want to do" part of my post?

Sure, saying the words are a form of speech, but the action of beggin for money is not a right. Panhandling is also a form of trespassing and solicitation.

Asking for money IS a right. It is speech. Trespassing is another crime, just as blocking traffic is. If they do either, lock 'em up. But simply asking for money is protected as free speech.

Asking or beggin for money is not a right. Thats like saying it is legal for me to threaten people, its not, it would be a form of harassment, sure I have the right to say it, but that doesn't mean what I'm saying is legal. Asking anyone for anything is a form of solocitation. To solicit for anything on private or public property is generally illegal, unless they are in possession of a license.

So I can never ask anyone for directions?

Asking for favors is not illegal. Sorry, but you wont convince me that such a fascist law should be passed.

 

[Konigin]

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: Konigin

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: Konigin

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: Konigin

Originally posted by: dartworth
Why should it be illegal. They have rights too.

Just because they make you feel uncomfortable, doesn't mean they don't have the right to do what they do.

Since when is panhandling a right? I really don't care what they want to do. But to say someone has a right to do any random thing they want to do is totally ridiculous.

Um, panhandling is a form of SPEECH. "Can I have some money?" <---That is SPEECH and it is protected by the First Amendment.

YOU, on the other hand, have NO right to be free of offense or annoyance caused by my speech.

Understand?

I gather you did not comprehend the "I really don't care what they want to do" part of my post?

Sure, saying the words are a form of speech, but the action of beggin for money is not a right. Panhandling is also a form of trespassing and solicitation.

Asking for money IS a right. It is speech. Trespassing is another crime, just as blocking traffic is. If they do either, lock 'em up. But simply asking for money is protected as free speech.

Asking or beggin for money is not a right. Thats like saying it is legal for me to threaten people, its not, it would be a form of harassment, sure I have the right to say it, but that doesn't mean what I'm saying is legal. Asking anyone for anything is a form of solocitation. To solicit for anything on private or public property is generally illegal, unless they are in possession of a license.

So I can never ask anyone for directions?

Asking for favors is not illegal. Sorry, but you wont convince me that such a fascist law should be passed.

WTH? What law? I have said nothing about passing any type of law. Sorry, asking for directions is not the same as begging for money. I guess I was a little broad when I said anything. But apparently you don't want to listen and are happy to take things out of context in order to prove your point.

 

[Eli]

Absolutely not. Under what basis?

Stupidity.

 

[JHoNNy1OoO]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: JHoNNy1OoO
Yes it should be illegal because the majority of panhandlers do it because its easy money and aren't trying to further themselves. I've seen the same panhandlers in corners here in Miami for years at a time wearing the same thing and just asking for money. They get free food from the shelters and mostly use the money for drugs and alcohol. This is my experience, may be different in your area.

-

So don't give them money, dumbass

Otherwise asking for money is freedom of speech. Learn to live with it, fascist.

I didn't say I gave them money did I? The rest of the people do and thats not my problem.

As for asking money being a freedom of speech sure. Harrasing me for money is not part of that. Sure one can argue it is but when someones main purpose is to do this to every single person he sees then its freaking problem. There are services to get homeless people back on their feet but most find it more lucrative to panhandle.

 

[Eli]

Originally posted by: JHoNNy1OoO

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: JHoNNy1OoO
Yes it should be illegal because the majority of panhandlers do it because its easy money and aren't trying to further themselves. I've seen the same panhandlers in corners here in Miami for years at a time wearing the same thing and just asking for money. They get free food from the shelters and mostly use the money for drugs and alcohol. This is my experience, may be different in your area.

-

So don't give them money, dumbass

Otherwise asking for money is freedom of speech. Learn to live with it, fascist.

I didn't say I gave them money did I? The rest of the people do and thats not my problem.

As for asking money being a freedom of speech sure. Harrasing me for money is not part of that. Sure one can argue it is but when someones main purpose is to do this to every single person he sees then its freaking problem. There are services to get homeless people back on their feet but most find it more lucrative to panhandle.

Harassment? GIve me a break.

As someone else has said, we may as well outlaw asking for directions.

How dare they harass you!

Jesus Fscking Christ.

 

[AmericasTeam]

San Francisco has voted on and passed a proposition against panhandling.

"Proposition M, the initiative aimed at halting aggressive panhandling. It prohibits begging in parking lots, near ATMs, on median strips, outside check- cashing businesses and on buses. It also outlaws aggressive panhandling.

Offenders could be fined or, if they qualify, attend a diversion program to deal with substance abuse and mental health problems."

People who panhandle need to get jobs as telemarketers

 

[FoBoT]

Originally posted by: AmericasTeam
People who panhandle need to get jobs as telemarketers

:light:


good idea, they might enjoy it better than other McJobs

 

Asking or beggin for money is not a right. Thats like saying it is legal for me to threaten people, its not, it would be a form of harassment, sure I have the right to say it, but that doesn't mean what I'm saying is legal. Asking anyone for anything is a form of solocitation. To solicit for anything on private or public property is generally illegal, unless they are in possession of a license.

No, actaully solicitation is legal unless otherwise noted.

I thought the use Bill of Rights was justifiable if you take into consideration the statements of the person I was quoting. Besides driving a car, phones and the Internet are all privileges not rights or at least they used to be, you never know nowadays they might have slipped in a few new amendments when I wasn?t looking.

I wasn?t assuming that all homeless people never had homes or lives, a lot of them probably did but they lost them for a reason and no matter how much the Government spends or how many shelters you build those reasons aren?t going to change. When I look at the Homeless most of what I see nowadays are semi healthy young to middle aged men, granted there are some families and women. It?s just kind of hard to get to get my sympathy when I see someone of my own age begging for change under a Help Wanted sign at the 7 Eleven.

Here is the original statment:

Quote

Originally posted by: dartworth
Why should it be illegal. They have rights too.

Just because they make you feel uncomfortable, doesn't mean they don't have the right to do what they do.


They have the right to panhandle is that in the bill of rights? I don?t remember seeing anything about loitering and harassing other people in there. I think it all depends on the laws in your community. Personally I don?t mind panhandlers as long as they don?t get aggressive. I don?t usually give them any money because all they?ll do is blow it on a bottle or drugs.

I see your point, but I don't see why the Bill of Rights comes into play. Based on the statement you responded too, I see no mention of the bill, or any reason why it would be brought up? "Rights" do go beyond what is written down in the Bill of rights and the constitution.
Now, you know that you need to have a legal mailing address and proof of identification to hold a job legally in the states right?
Homeless are very rarely afforded that luxury.

 

[EyeMWing]

I saw a panhandler take his bucket of cash and get into a Lexxus once.

 

[Miramonti]

Originally posted by: EyeMWing
I saw a panhandler take his bucket of cash and get into a Lexxus once.

BULLSH!T. If someone gave him a ride, maybe.

 

[JackDawkins]

No it shouldn't be illegal but panhandling can get out of hand, so to speak, and they can become quite troublesome for some business owners. No loitering laws can be more strictly enforced to offset this problem.

 

[Thraxen]

BULLSH!T. If someone gave him a ride, maybe.

Haha... you don't believe that happens??