Should Michael Sam Sue the NFL?

[smackababy]

I think his college credentials would at least warrant special teams or practice squad consideration, with the hope that his potential could be realized during the season.

And, two teams did that. St. Louis gave him a training camp chance and Dallas brought him to the practice squad. Eventually, they had to release him to bring up a player coming off IR, but he got his chance. In fact, all chatter coming out of Dallas was that Sam was a fantastic player on the practice squad (they really have to do everything) and they just needed a spot and he was the one cut. He then had a showing at the vet player combine and his measurables decreased.

His college credentials don't mean much, as college is a group of boys where the NFL is a group of extremely highly trained men.

 

[TheGardener]

You can't sue for sucking! (At football that is)

Why is the NFL so sacrosanct? Anyone can sue anyone in this country. A suit might get easily thrown out as being frivolous, but a lawsuit can be filed by anyone. Winning is another matter. And you can sue for sucking. You just call it something else.

McDonald's over the years has sued many a small burger joint over it's naming rights. There was a one eatery south of Boston, named McDonalds that was sued by the restaurant giant. The one store eatery had been in existence and had been serving food before the famous McDonalds opened their first restaurant. But they could not afford to stand up to the juggernaut food chain in a court, where they may have prevailed. So they knuckled under and changed the name of their restaurant.

I remember in the 80's a burglar in NJ was trying to break-in to an apartment from the rooftop. There was a skylight and the idiot burglar fell through and crashed to the floor below. He seriously hurt, and sued the owner of the building. Common sense would say that he was hurt in the act of a crime, and bore full responsibilities for his actions. But a jury saw it differently and award him money for his injuries. In a civil suit it is only necessary to win over a majority of jurors.

 

[Genx87]

I think his college credentials would at least warrant special teams or practice squad consideration, with the hope that his potential could be realized during the season.

Eh what you did last year has nothing to do with what you are doing this year in these sports. Earning co-defensive SEC player of the year awards mean nothing to these NFL teams. They are in the business of putting the best product on the field. Not rewarding college players with contracts because their college performance.

 

[smackababy]

I remember in the 80's a burglar in NJ was trying to break-in to an apartment from the rooftop. There was a skylight and the idiot burglar fell through and crashed to the floor below. He seriously hurt, and sued the owner of the building. Common sense would say that he was hurt in the act of a crime, and bore full responsibilities for his actions. But a jury saw it differently and award him money for his injuries. In a civil suit it is only necessary to win over a majority of jurors.

I'm not saying this didn't happen, but that exact scenario was in the Jim Carrey movie Liar Liar, and Carrey claimed he could have got him 10 million, rather than the 5 million.

 

[Svnla]

SEC DPOY is an honor that represents the whole conference. That have a banquet, get dressed up, and give an award. Its a big deal, so yeah, I will continue to mention it! Unless you're saying a gay person can't represent the SEC. Is that what you're saying??? lol j/k

I have no problem if you said "Sam was a DPOY yet he sucked because he did not make the NFL or CFL". No problem at all because it was true.

The problem I have is you said because Sam was DPOY and he could not make it, therefore, the SEC was just an average/mediocrity conference while links after links from me shown that it was not the case. An award in college means nothing in the NFL and it was not just from me but several pro sports writers and several posters in this thread said so. Facts are facts

I do not know how to make it clearer than that.

 

[Childs]

And, two teams did that. St. Louis gave him a training camp chance and Dallas brought him to the practice squad. Eventually, they had to release him to bring up a player coming off IR, but he got his chance. In fact, all chatter coming out of Dallas was that Sam was a fantastic player on the practice squad (they really have to do everything) and they just needed a spot and he was the one cut. He then had a showing at the vet player combine and his measurables decreased.

His college credentials don't mean much, as college is a group of boys where the NFL is a group of extremely highly trained men.

Yeah, but Dallas is good and St Louis will be good this year. There are a lot of teams that dont have that much talent. If he wasnt the SEC DPOY and was for some mid major, I could understand it, but in essence he was vetted against NFL ready competition already.

 

[Childs]

Eh what you did last year has nothing to do with what you are doing this year in these sports. Earning co-defensive SEC player of the year awards mean nothing to these NFL teams. They are in the business of putting the best product on the field. Not rewarding college players with contracts because their college performance.

I was going by historical precedent. For at least the last 10 years every DPOY of every major conference has had that player make the NFL. Whats unique about the one player that didn't make it? Sure, he just could not have been any good, but thats an interesting coincidence.

 

[smackababy]

Yeah, but Dallas is good and St Louis will be good this year. There are a lot of teams that dont have that much talent. If he wasnt the SEC DPOY and was for some mid major, I could understand it, but in essence he was vetted against NFL ready competition already.

What? St. Louis was an okay team led by their defense (one of the reasons he did not make it) and Dallas was coming off one of the worst defensive performances in NFL history and Sam couldn't get the call up from the practice squad. Once he was released by Dallas, it was already late in the season and teams had their line up / practice squad solidified.

He was then able to show what he had improved during the vet combine. And, he performed worse than originally. Any NFL team should know right off the bat, Sam doesn't give a rat's ass about the NFL from that alone. That was his second chance and he didn't do shit to give it his all. And that itself should show why he wasn't cut out for the NFL or the CFL.

 

[Childs]

I have no problem if you said "Sam was a DPOY yet he sucked because he did not make the NFL or CFL". No problem at all because it was true.

The problem I have is you said because Sam was DPOY and he could not make it, therefore, the SEC was just an average/mediocrity conference while links after links from me shown that it was not the case. An award in college means nothing in the NFL and it was not just from me but several pro sports writers and several posters in this thread said so. Facts are facts

I do not know how to make it clearer than that.

Why would one assume the SEC DPOY sucked? I assume he must be very good, and thats reinforced after all your links. 😛 And if he isn't any good, than that should be a reflection on the conference, no? Or maybe it was something else...

My thinking is simply the SEC is good, SEC DPOY should be good, good players make the NFL. If not, I question it. Doesnt mean there isnt another reason, but no one has really said he wasnt good enough to be in the NFL. Jeff Fisher even said he thought he could play in the NFL, right before he cut him. hahaha

 

[smackababy]

Why would one assume the SEC DPOY sucked? I assume he must be very good, and thats reinforced after all your links. 😛 And if he isn't any good, than that should be a reflection on the conference, no? Or maybe it was something else...

My thinking is simply the SEC is good, SEC DPOY should be good, good players make the NFL. If not, I question it. Doesnt mean there isnt another reason, but no one has really said he wasnt good enough to be in the NFL. Jeff Fisher even said he thought he could play in the NFL, right before he cut him. hahaha

He wasn't DPOY, he was co-DPOY. He wasn't clearly able to separate himself from everyone else.

 

[Childs]

What? St. Louis was an okay team led by their defense (one of the reasons he did not make it) and Dallas was coming off one of the worst defensive performances in NFL history and Sam couldn't get the call up from the practice squad. Once he was released by Dallas, it was already late in the season and teams had their line up / practice squad solidified.

He was then able to show what he had improved during the vet combine. And, he performed worse than originally. Any NFL team should know right off the bat, Sam doesn't give a rat's ass about the NFL from that alone. That was his second chance and he didn't do shit to give it his all. And that itself should show why he wasn't cut out for the NFL or the CFL.

Dallas was a good team last year, defense was in the bottom half, but not the bottom. You stated he was good enough to make it, but was let go to make room for someone on IR. Thats still a lot of teams that could look at him, even during the season for practice squad or someone in need of a pass rusher.

 

[Ban Bot]

Seems strange that an SEC Defensive Player of the Year couldnt make an NFL team. That being said, having a reality show lined up before making a roster did seem like a red flag.

It isn't strange in the least.

Jackson Jeffcoat, son of Cowboy star Jim Jeffcoat (1st round pick 1983, 102.5 career sacks), was a 2013 All-American at end just like Sam--and Big 12 Defensive Player of the Year. He also bested Sam for the Ted Hendricks Award for the nations best defensive end.

Certainly, Jeffcoat was drafted and playing in the NFL.

Nope. Jackson went undrafted and was an free agent picked up by Seattle. Who then cut him before the season started.

There are a lot of "only good" college players who make great NFL players due to the difference in size and speed in the NFL and "great" college players who due to lack of size and speed cannot make it in the NFL. Look at college QBs.

IMO this is one of Sam's biggest issues. Even giving the slightest nod to the idea he is being blackballed and that as an SEC player of the year and All-American he would be playing in the NFL -- so there must be some bias against him -- has no firm basis in reality. Sam commented on his college accolades a couple times and left this issue open ended. That was a big mistake. No team wants to wade into that issue if the player is already sending out discrimination vibes, especially if they don't think he can make the team (Sam is very slow for a speed rusher and considered too small for strong side end). The best thing to do was to put everything aside and say, "My past doesn't impact whether I make this team. What I do on the field in practice and on game day are the only things that matter and the only things I am focused on." It is one thing to say he going to prove everyone wrong for not drafting him (he was @ the end of the last round).

 

[Childs]

Certainly, Jeffcoat was drafted and playing in the NFL.

Nope. Jackson went undrafted and was an free agent picked up by Seattle. Who then cut him before the season started.

And he was picked up by the Redskins later in the year, and has an active roster spot. Yeah, he was signed to practice squad, waived, resigned, etc, but that goes back to what I was saying about guys with talent. They keep getting shots until its certain they can't play. Guys from major conferences who will awards like DPOY must have talent, let alone a DPOY from a conference that is thought to have the best defense in NCAAF.

 

[smackababy]

And he was picked up by the Redskins later in the year, and has an active roster spot. Yeah, he was signed to practice squad, waived, resigned, etc, but that goes back to what I was saying about guys with talent. They keep getting shots until its certain they can't play. Guys from major conferences who will awards like DPOY must have talent, let alone a DPOY from a conference that is thought to have the best defense in NCAAF.

So, then, what is the difference between the two players where one would get a second chance AND make the most of it? Is it because one is gay OR could it possibly be because one came out and said they should have been drafted earlier and then showed they didn't really put in work during their time off to make the most of that chance?

We can pretend it is because he is gay OR we can look at the facts and pretend he is more interested in Dancing with the Stars and a reality show.

 

[Ban Bot]

Guys from major conferences who will awards like DPOY must have talent, let alone a DPOY from a conference that is thought to have the best defense in NCAAF.

I am going to double down on this. Like you said earlier:

Seems strange that an SEC Defensive Player of the Year couldnt make an NFL team

This just isn't true.

It is not strange. I gave an example of an athlete with similar awards / position / year that had a LOWER draft position and failed to make a team out of camp.

Need more examples? See: the history of Heisman Award winners stinking in the NFL. See: Record setting college QBs not good enough to play in the NFL (skills for the spread air raid didn't fit the NFL; read option QB with poor arm; too short; etc). See: higher round draft picks not making their teams season roster (e.g. Seattle cut their 4th rounder Chris Harper in camp!)

Seattle actually drafted a backup Tight End (Luke Willson) when the starter (McDonald of the 49ers) was also drafted--and the college backup is better in the NFL than the college starter. Go figure.

The college game does not translate directly to the NFL.

Teams kick the tires on free agents all the time. And with player attrition due to injury guys not good enough to make the 53 man roster get call ups or invites to 10 player practice squads. But it isn't strange if a player who had the tires kicked failed to make the team the next year. It just means he isn't very good.

There is nothing strange here.

People keep on saying this for code, "He isn't playing because he is gay."

Yet the reasons cited (co-DPOY, All-American, got drafted, got a call up and played a little) don't support by themselves anything "strange" is going on.

No, he isn't playing because he isn't very good. Even when he has had opportunities he hasn't "flashed" backing up his low draft status and not making a team. He could have flashed in the CFL but didn't look good there, either.

If Sam could help an NFL team he would have been invited on a roster. Teams like the Raiders, Cowboys, and Seahawks are kicking the tires on non-conforming players all the time to get the best value they can when other teams write them off.

Jeff Fisher drafted him -- Jeff already took the "hit" for drafting him. Why wouldn't he want him to make their team if he had the talent?

When the Cowboys brought him up they already took the PR "hit" for bringing the guy in. So if Sam was good there was no reason not to stick with him. Cutting bait was more evidence he wasn't good enough.

 

[Svnla]

Why would one assume the SEC DPOY sucked? I assume he must be very good, and thats reinforced after all your links. 😛 And if he isn't any good, than that should be a reflection on the conference, no? Or maybe it was something else...

My thinking is simply the SEC is good, SEC DPOY should be good, good players make the NFL. If not, I question it. Doesnt mean there isnt another reason, but no one has really said he wasnt good enough to be in the NFL. Jeff Fisher even said he thought he could play in the NFL, right before he cut him. hahaha

Now, if there were more SEC DPOY sucked, then I would see your point, but so far you only had Sam.

Nope. All of my links did NOT refer Sam personally but only about the SEC records, wins, championships and about awards in colleges did not mean a thing in the NFL. Learn to read, dude.

Did you see the link that I posted about how Sam had even worse stats (lower speed for example) the second time around in the NFL? He did not focus to make the team. He was on the bubble and for whatever reason, he did not improve his stats the next time he had a chance to impress a team. See what the poster above said " Even when he has had opportunities he hasn't "flashed" backing up his low draft status and not making a team. He could have flashed in the CFL but didn't look good there, either."

The SEC is good, my links (from pro sports writers and the NFL itself) say so, not me. You can not judge a conference from "ONE" player. Again, you can not judge solely on a single player for a whole conference. Just as you can not judge a student for a whole school.

Still no reply about my statement of why the "superior" Pac12 (as you claimed several times) had less championships, less wins overall, less players being draft into the NFL and so on versus the "average" SEC? My thinking is Superior > Average. I guess it is not the same in your world. LOL.

 

[Childs]

So, then, what is the difference between the two players where one would get a second chance AND make the most of it? Is it because one is gay OR could it possibly be because one came out and said they should have been drafted earlier and then showed they didn't really put in work during their time off to make the most of that chance?

We can pretend it is because he is gay OR we can look at the facts and pretend he is more interested in Dancing with the Stars and a reality show.

What does Dancing with the Stars have to do with anything? I could see if that was during the season or he was missing OTAs because of it, but he definitely wasnt signed with anyone. lol Even then, several active NFL players have done it in the off season. Lots of guys also said they should have been drafted earlier. Thats nothing new. One can pretend his sexuality has nothing to do with anything, but for better for worse, its a big part of who he is.

 

[Childs]

I am going to double down on this. Like you said earlier:



This just isn't true.

It is not strange. I gave an example of an athlete with similar awards / position / year that had a LOWER draft position and failed to make a team out of camp.

I believe I addressed your example. He's an on an active roster. I already provided links too all the DPOYs for all major conferences, and they all made an NFL roster at one point. Notice I didnt say wasnt drafter, or wasnt an all pro, or MVP, I said simply I was surprised a DPOY from a major conference, like the SEC, couldnt make an NFL team. There is nothing really to dispute.

Jeff Fisher drafted him -- Jeff already took the "hit" for drafting him. Why wouldn't he want him to make their team if he had the talent?

When the Cowboys brought him up they already took the PR "hit" for bringing the guy in. So if Sam was good there was no reason not to stick with him. Cutting bait was more evidence he wasn't good enough.

My theory is Fisher and Jones underestimated the reaction in the locker room. By Fisher's own admission he thought he could play in the NFL. Smackababy seems to think he was good enough to make the Cowboys practice squad, but lost a spot to someone on IR. There's enough anecdotal evidence to suggest he in fact was good enough. In general, when given two options, except one has the potential to be controversial to a portion of your fan base, management would go with the one that has the least amount of distractions.

Usually the first one to break a barrier in sports isnt the best one, he's the mentally toughest one. Jackie Robinson wasnt the best Negro league player, but he was the best one to deal with the situation. I dont think Sam is the best one to deal with it mentally, especially since he quit citing mental health, but that doesnt mean he wasnt good enough or his sexuality wasnt a factor. I couldnt imagine the pressure of being openly gay in an NFL locker room, and have the world watching you as well.

 

[smackababy]

What does Dancing with the Stars have to do with anything? I could see if that was during the season or he was missing OTAs because of it, but he definitely wasnt signed with anyone. lol Even then, several active NFL players have done it in the off season. Lots of guys also said they should have been drafted earlier. Thats nothing new. One can pretend his sexuality has nothing to do with anything, but for better for worse, its a big part of who he is.

The issue is that he wasn't good enough originally. His measurables were bad. He decided, rather than to spend every ounce of his being and time should have been put toward his dream of being an NFL player. Why would he take time off of that to do Dancing with the Stars if he should have been working to make an NFL team?

Again, attitude has a lot to do with why he didn't make it. His attitude that he didn't need to strive to be better and was entitled to a spot.

 

[Childs]

Now, if there were more SEC DPOY sucked, then I would see your point, but so far you only had Sam.

I dont know if you are simply stubborn or have some sort of comprehension issue. When did I say Sam sucked? The very fact that you are saying no previous SEC DPOY's sucked validate my position that chances are he didnt suck. And if he didnt suck, he would be on par with not only other SEC DPOYs from previous years, but at least as good, or better, than the DPOYs from other major conferences. And all of them we able to make an NFL roster.

Nope. All of my links did NOT refer Sam personally but only about the SEC records, wins, championships and about awards in colleges did not mean a thing in the NFL. Learn to read, dude.

Did you see the link that I posted about how Sam had even worse stats (lower speed for example) the second time around in the NFL? He did not focus to make the team. He was on the bubble and for whatever reason, he did not improve his stats the next time he had a chance to impress a team. See what the poster above said " Even when he has had opportunities he hasn't "flashed" backing up his low draft status and not making a team. He could have flashed in the CFL but didn't look good there, either."

And I provided an example of James Harrison, with roughly the same measurables. His fastest time was slower than Sam's by a big margin. Combine isnt everything. Draft status isnt everything. SEC DPOY is something concrete. It may not say what he can and cannot do in the NFL, but for every DPOY in major conference, we know, for a fact, it is a credential worthy of at least a roster spot for one season. If indeed the first one who doesnt do it was the SEC DPOY, that was openly gay, but that had no bearing on anything, is quite the coincidence.

The SEC is good, my links (from pro sports writers and the NFL itself) say so, not me. You can not judge a conference from "ONE" player. Again, you can not judge solely on a single player for a whole conference. Just as you can not judge a student for a whole school.

Still no reply about my statement of why the "superior" Pac12 (as you claimed several times) had less championships, less wins overall, less players being draft into the NFL and so on versus the "average" SEC? My thinking is Superior > Average. I guess it is not the same in your world. LOL.

I dont understand why you insist on using this as a basis to keep replying to this thread. lol What exactly are you asking? I believe I stated in one or more of these posts that had their been a playoff, USC, Stanford, and maybe even Oregon would have won more in the last decade. Going forward, this will be proven with the playoff system. Or the Big10 will make a resurgence. But the days of voting an SEC team against some paper champion from the Big12 for the title game is over.

What I have said over and over, and will continue to say, is that if the SEC DPOY isnt good enough to make the NFL, even for a cup of coffee, there are two assumptions that could be made about it. Something is different about Sam, or that award doesnt mean what we assume it does. And yes, you can infer that the SEC isnt that good if they have the only DPOY to not make the NFL.

Even if you want to say Sam didnt work hard enough, which I'm not sure why you would given the lack of evidence, it would be an oddity in itself if the one DPOY from all major conferences, who had he drive to be DPOY in a good conference, didnt have the drive to work hard enough to make an NFL roster once. And he just happened to be openly gay.

 

[Fern]

Sam is the only SEC DPOY in the last decade to have not been picked in the first two rounds, and I think the only one to not make a roster. I'm not saying he should have been picked earlier or even made an NFL roster, but its curious how DPOY in one of the best conferences could not make an NFL roster. QB's like Tebow and Couch at least made rosters multiple times.

And since I'm in Pac-12 country, if its wasn't because he was gay and somewhat of an attention seeker, it has to be because the SEC is overrated.

The better question might be why was he chosen as (co-) DPOY.

His best games came from playing inferior teams.

He was only a 2 star recruit. If you follow college football recruiting you know damn few 2 star recruit get a D1 scholarship offer. http://sports.yahoo.com/tcu/football/recruiting/player-Michael-Sam-63334

He's also a 'tweener'. He played DE in college. At about 260lbs he's too small to line up with his hand in the dirt against +300lbs opponents. So, he's trying to play OLB in the NFL. This is a substantially different job than D.E. in a 4-3 defense. Apparently he's not fast/quick enough and can't cover receivers (has no real experience at it and the NFL isn't the place to first try that task).

Geez, go to Wiki and look at his combine numbers: a 4.91 in the forty. Yikes!! That's shockingly slow for a DE, much less an OLB.

I'm surprised he got drafted at all.

In rare instances an undrafted or low-drafted player will blossom late or improve through force of will and hard work. Some guys just don't have the 'measurables' but CAN play. However he's had his chances/opportunities to prove himself and failed.

Fern

 

[Svnla]

I dont know if you are simply stubborn or have some sort of comprehension issue. When did I say Sam sucked? The very fact that you are saying no previous SEC DPOY's sucked validate my position that chances are he didnt suck. And if he didnt suck, he would be on par with not only other SEC DPOYs from previous years, but at least as good, or better, than the DPOYs from other major conferences. And all of them we able to make an NFL roster.



And I provided an example of James Harrison, with roughly the same measurables. His fastest time was slower than Sam's by a big margin. Combine isnt everything. Draft status isnt everything. SEC DPOY is something concrete. It may not say what he can and cannot do in the NFL, but for every DPOY in major conference, we know, for a fact, is a credential worthy of at least a roster spot for one season. If indeed the first one who doesnt do it was the SEC DPOY was openly gay, but had no bearing on anything, is quite the coincidence.



I dont understand why you insist on using this as a basis to keep replying to this thread. lol What exactly are you asking? I believe I stated in one or more of these posts that had their been a playoff, USC, Stanford, and maybe even Oregon would have won more in the last decade. Going forward, this will be proven with the playoff system. Or the Big10 will make a resurgence. But the days of voting an SEC team against some paper champion from the Big12 for the title game is over.

What I have said over and over, and will continue to say, is that if the SEC DPOY isnt good enough to make the NFL, even for a cup of coffee, there are two assumptions that could be made about it. Something is different about Sam, or that award doesnt mean what we assume it does. And yes, you can infer that the SEC isnt that good if they have the only DPOY to not make the NFL.

Even if you want to say Sam didnt work hard enough, which I'm not sure why you would given the lack of evidence, it would be an oddity in itself if the one DPOY from all major conferences, who had he drive to be DPOY in a good conference, didnt have the drive to work hard enough to make an NFL roster once. And happened to be openly gay.

This is getting tiresome. I did ask you to give Sam a call earlier in the thread. Did you do it? Nope. Because you are too busy to use him (and SOLELY only him) to trash a whole conference.

I did not say anything about Sam. I said it SEVERAL TIMES that for whatever reason, he was worse on the field the second time around in the NFL.

You can trash the way the college football championship and other college stats, that is fine. What about the number of SEC players being draft into the NFL higher than ALL other conferences 9 YEARS in a row. How about that? Average you said? LOL.

Your logic SUCKED!!! and that's a fact, Jack.

 

[Childs]

The issue is that he wasn't good enough originally. His measurables were bad. He decided, rather than to spend every ounce of his being and time should have been put toward his dream of being an NFL player. Why would he take time off of that to do Dancing with the Stars if he should have been working to make an NFL team?

Again, attitude has a lot to do with why he didn't make it. His attitude that he didn't need to strive to be better and was entitled to a spot.

Maybe I am missing something here, because I honestly dont know. Wasnt he already cut from Dallas and sat rest of the year, and then did DWTS in the off season. I actually thought Sam was done with football when I heard he left the CFL. Doing DWTS before that shouldnt have been an issue.

 

[Childs]

The better question might be why was he chosen as (co-) DPOY.

This is what I dont get. If he got the award, he must have earned it, but not making an NFL roster implies he didnt.

 

[Childs]

This is getting tiresome. I did ask you to give Sam a call earlier in the thread. Did you do it? Nope. Because you are too busy to use him (and SOLELY only him) to trash a whole conference.

I did not say anything about Sam. I said it SEVERAL TIMES that for whatever reason, he was worse on the field the second time around in the NFL.

You can trash the way the college football championship and other college stats, that is fine. What about the number of SEC players being draft into the NFL higher than ALL other conferences 9 YEARS in a row. How about that? Average you said? LOL.

Your logic SUCKED!!! and that's a fact, Jack.

hahaha...you think I have Sam's phone number? Unfortunately I dont have his number.