Should Michael Sam Sue the NFL?

[Childs]

Ever heard of Aaron Maybin ? Yeah I didn't think so, he was a tweener just like Sam, couldn't make it even a couple years after being selected in the top 15.

I never heard of him, but according to wiki he made NFL rosters and played in NFL games. If Sam made a roster, didnt play for half a season, then was cut, that would be different conversation.

 

[Childs]

You seem not to get it and now you are trolling. You pick out 1 single player to trash a whole conference while you do not know the true reason(s) of why Sam did not make the NFL or the CFL.

Um, Michael Sam is what the topic is about.

You claimed the Pac12 as superior (your own words) but have ZERO stats/links to back up that statement while I provided several links to prove to you that the SEC was in FACT better than other conferences, even the Pac12. That's how grow up debate, with facts and links/sources, not opinion.

I already provided several links from well know sources, even from the NFL itself to back up my statements while ALL you have is "but..but..why he could not make the squad even he was the DPOY..so the SEC is not that good..whaaaa..wahhahaaa". WTF x 100000000000000000000000.

Now do you have anything else to say beside the same old line you used over and over again?

What exactly do you think your links proving? The first thing I said is I can't believe the SEC DPOY couldnt make an NFL roster. And he's the only one in like 15 years to not go in at least the second round, and I dont know how far you would have to go back to find one that didnt make a roster.

Yeah yeah, I thew in that shot about the SEC must not be that good, but seriously, wtf, either the conference is as good as you think and for some reason, a bad player was DPOY, or he didnt make it in the NFL for non football reasons. They would have a spot for him, even if its on special teams, if he had any sort of potential.

lol And if I would have known you would be this butthurt about that PAC12 comment I would have but a smily in there. But just to stick it to you, the PAC12 DPOY for the last 10 years all made rosters, and actually played significant years in the NFL.

Here some links.

Pac12

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pacific-12_Conference_football_individual_awards#Defense

Big12

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...PNgUaejMZynH2GVgQ&sig2=gMb93EtnmWDOHL9yEDtviw

Big10

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_T....E2.80.93Woodson_Defensive_Player_of_the_Year

ACC

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlan...ndividual_awards#Defensive_Player_of_the_Year


In the last 10 years, not one DPOY from a major NCAAF conference fail to make the NFL for at least a couple of years. Not one, except the one who was openly gay.

 

[Svnla]

Um, Michael Sam is what the topic is about.



What exactly do you think your links proving? The first thing I said is I can't believe the SEC DPOY couldnt make an NFL roster. And he's the only one in like 15 years to not go in at least the second round, and I dont know how far you would have to go back to find one that didnt make a roster.

Yeah yeah, I thew in that shot about the SEC must not be that good, but seriously, wtf, either the conference is as good as you think and for some reason, a bad player was DPOY, or he didnt make it in the NFL for non football reasons. They would have a spot for him, even if its on special teams, if he had any sort of potential.

lol And if I would have known you would be this butthurt about that PAC12 comment I would have but a smily in there. But just to stick it to you, the PAC12 DPOY for the last 10 years all made rosters, and actually played significant years in the NFL.

Heres a link.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pacific-12_Conference_football_individual_awards

You trash the whole SEC conference based on 1 single player while you brag about the Pac12 as "superior" while I and others never said the SEC was all that. If the Pac12 is superior and SEC is just average/mediocre then why how the SEC dominated other conferences, even the Pac12 (SEC has 33 wins advance over the Pac12, the closest conference) with my link above? Which is which? LOL.

I do not think the SEC is good, the many articles and links I provided in this thread with facts and stats say so. Understand?

You did not answer my question last time. How many college football championships the Pac12 has recently after USC's run? That's how you define "superior", eh? LOL.

 

[Annisman*]

I never heard of him, but according to wiki he made NFL rosters and played in NFL games. If Sam made a roster, didnt play for half a season, then was cut, that would be different conversation.

What do you know about American Football ?

Maybin was the 11th pick in the NFL draft, that is the sole reason he ever saw a single regular season game snap. That's how terrible he was. Teams rarely cut their top pick sooner than 2 or 3 years regardless of how bad they are. Sam was barely drafted, guys who get drafted very late or go undfrafted rarely make it past the first month of training camp, if they are lucky they will get stashed on the practice squad for a year. Sam probably made it further in the NFL than he should have, considering he couldn't even cut it in the CFL.

 

[Childs]

You trash the whole SEC conference based on 1 single player while you brag about the Pac12 as "superior" while I and others never said the SEC was all that. If the Pac12 is superior and SEC is just average/mediocre then why how the SEC dominated other conferences, even the Pac12 (SEC has 33 wins advance over the Pac12, the closest conference) with my link above? Which is which? LOL.

I do not think the SEC is good, the many articles and links I provided in this thread with facts and stats say so. Understand?

How are they doing lately? I dont recall the SEC being represented in the championship game. The first one that actually makes the teams earn their spots! And I dont remember them winning the year before either. :biggrin:

You did not answer my question last time. How many college football championships the Pac12 has recently after USC's run? That' how you define "superior", eh? LOL.

Man, I dont even know when you asked that question, but obviously none. Football championships would be a better gage with a playoff system. And we finally got one, and the SEC didnt even make the final. Here is a link for proof:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_...n#Bowl_Games_and_the_College_Football_Playoff

Since USC there were years when both Oregon and Stanford could have played in a championship game, if they were voted in. USC should have been in more. Those three could have made it in a playoff. Could have lost too, but then at least we'd know. Less faith in Oregon than Stanford or USC.

 

[Red Storm]

No, he shouldn't.

 

[Svnla]

How are they doing lately? I dont recall the SEC being represented in the championship game. The first one that actually makes the teams earn their spots! And I dont remember them winning the year before either. :biggrin:



Man, I dont even know when you asked that question, but obviously none. Football championships would be a better gage with a playoff system. And we finally got one, and the SEC didnt even make the final. Here is a link for proof:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_...n#Bowl_Games_and_the_College_Football_Playoff

Since USC there were years when both Oregon and Stanford could have played in a championship game, if they were voted in. USC should have been in more. Those three could have made it in a playoff. Could have lost too, but then at least we'd know. Less faith in Oregon than Stanford or USC.

From your own link, did the Pac12 win? LOL.

Let me repeat this line from a professional sports writer (from one of my links posted previously)

Then again, it shows college stats and awards mean nothing when it comes to playing with the big boys.

Yes, the Pac12 is superior while the SEC is just average/mediocrity per you. LOL.

"Superior" = 33 LESS wins overall than "Average" per you.

"Superior" = less championship wins lately than "Average" per you. LOL. See here = 1.5 from USC vs. many from SEC teams (7 wins in a row at one time from the "average" conference).

2014 Ohio State CFP
2013 Florida State BCS
2012 Alabama BCS
2011 Alabama BCS
2010 Auburn BCS
2009 Alabama BCS
2008 Florida BCS
2007 Louisiana State BCS
2006 Florida BCS
2005 Texas BCS
2004 Southern California BCS
2003 Louisiana State, Southern California BCS, AP, FWAA
2002 Ohio State BCS
2001 Miami (Fla.) BCS
2000 Oklahoma BCS
1999 Florida State BCS
1998 Tennessee BCS

http://www.ncaa.com/history/football/fbs

Yup. All of those achievements do NOT count because just one player per you.

 

[Childs]

What do you know about American Football ?

Maybin was the 11th pick in the NFL draft, that is the sole reason he ever saw a single regular season game snap. That's how terrible he was. Teams rarely cut their top pick sooner than 2 or 3 years regardless of how bad they are. Sam was barely drafted, guys who get drafted very late or go undfrafted rarely make it past the first month of training camp, if they are lucky they will get stashed on the practice squad for a year. Sam probably made it further in the NFL than he should have, considering he couldn't even cut it in the CFL.

Did you make the case that he was a tweener like Sam? Sam fell way too far in the draft for a SEC DPOY. And its not like there aren't other smallish DE/LBs in the league. James Harrison and Von Miller come to mind, and I'm sure there are others. The one measurable that you could point to and say he's deficient is in 40 times, but it didnt seem to matter in the SEC. And it wasnt like Missouri was a bottom of the barrel SEC team. They were in the division finals the last two years, and in the Big 12 for a few years they were in the mix for the conference title.

 

[Childs]

From your own link, did the Pac12 win? LOL.

Let me repeat this line from a professional sports writer (from one of my links posted previously)



Yes, the Pac12 is superior while the SEC is just average/mediocrity per you. LOL.

"Superior" = 33 LESS wins overall than "Average" per you.

"Superior" = less championship wins lately than "Average" per you. LOL. See here = 1.5 from USC vs. many from SEC teams (7 wins in a row at one time from the "average" conference).

2014 Ohio State CFP
2013 Florida State BCS
2012 Alabama BCS
2011 Alabama BCS
2010 Auburn BCS
2009 Alabama BCS
2008 Florida BCS
2007 Louisiana State BCS
2006 Florida BCS
2005 Texas BCS
2004 Southern California BCS
2003 Louisiana State, Southern California BCS, AP, FWAA
2002 Ohio State BCS
2001 Miami (Fla.) BCS
2000 Oklahoma BCS
1999 Florida State BCS
1998 Tennessee BCS

http://www.ncaa.com/history/football/fbs

Yup. All of those achievements do NOT count because just one player per you.

You dont get that all your SEC info just makes me question more how Sam couldnt have made it. Until you admit that the SEC isn't that good, there is no way to believe that their DPOY couldnt make the NFL. lol

Also, wtf, I said in that post that the Pac12 didnt win since USC. You even quoted it! hahaha

I see you conveniently failed to address my links for the DPOYs for every major conference. :hmm:

 

[Imported]

Did you make the case that he was a tweener like Sam? Sam fell way too far in the draft for a SEC DPOY. And its not like there aren't other smallish DE/LBs in the league. James Harrison and Von Miller come to mind, and I'm sure there are others. The one measurable that you could point to and say he's deficient is in 40 times, but it didnt seem to matter in the SEC. And it wasnt like Missouri was a bottom of the barrel SEC team. They were in the division finals the last two years, and in the Big 12 for a few years they were in the mix for the conference title.

His rookie combine performance was disastrous.. especially his explosiveness (vertical). His performance was even worse in the veteran's combine.

 

[1sikbITCH]

The NFL does not employ players. The NFL contracts with teams who employ players. If he has material evidence that proves the same team that drafted a gay man conspired to fire that same man for being gay he'll need to prove it in court to a jury.

Dumb thread.

 

[Genx87]

Seems strange that an SEC Defensive Player of the Year couldnt make an NFL team. That being said, having a reality show lined up before making a roster did seem like a red flag.

He was too small and slow. Jackson Jeffcoat, the Big 12 defensive player of the year in 2013 went undrafted as well. Awards do not automatically make these players NFL viable.

Michael Sam sounds like he has some serious issues to deal with outside of football.

 

[Svnla]

You dont get that all your SEC info just makes me question more how Sam couldnt have made it. Until you admit that the SEC isn't that good, there is no way to believe that their DPOY couldnt make the NFL. lol

Also, wtf, I said in that post that the Pac12 didnt win since USC. You even quoted it! hahaha

I see you conveniently failed to address my links for the DPOYs for every major conference. :hmm:

Again, you kept mention 1 single player as he was the true rep for the whole conference.

How could a "superior" (your own word) conference such as the Pac12 has LESS wins overall, LESS college football championships, LESS players being drafted into the NFL, LESS of very much of every single measurable of college football than the "average" conference such as the SEC? All you have for your argument is ONE player who was DPOY and I and several posters and the pro sports writers said over and over again that awards/status/etc. in college mean nothing in the NFL.

I do not understand your logic. Last time I check, Superior >>> Average but this is not the case here. Facts are facts.

 

[Genx87]

ACC does suck. Last few years they only had one competitive team, and thats FSU. Miami hasn't been relevant since they joined the ACC. GT is OK sometimes, and thats because they beat SEC teams. haha

And if Leaf is not considered as big a bust as Russell, thats only because Leaf had higher expectations because he came from a superior conference! Leaf's biggest crime is that he's a POS human being. Besides, if I was a GM I couldn't do any worse than picking either one of those QBs. In my book thats proof that I wouldn't be any worse at drafting players.

ACC had the second highest drafted players(47). The atlantic division had the most players drafted of any division in football. Clemson has also been pretty solid over the past few years. Pac 12 and ACC tied for most amount of players taken in the 1st round(9 each).

 

[Genx87]

Charlie Ward didn't even bother, and went straight to the NBA,

Though, in retrospect, his type of skill set is something that GMs are paying more attention to these days. His size then is still a huge issue today, and probably always will be despite what someone like Russell Wilson has proven (and Drew Brees, for that matter).

Ward knew he could make more money and last longer in the NBA.

 

[Genx87]

Honestly, I think RG3 just doesn't fit in the offense of the Redskins and Gruden. He is incredibly accurate on short passes, has a cannon arm, and can move (when he has both knees...). If he was in an offense that suited his strengths and not tried to have him be a pocket passer, he would do much better.

RG3 cant get the running out of himself. This causes him to get injured. His rookie campaign might have been the closest thing since Brett Farves final season to seeing somebody actually get killed on the field of play. The guys body cant take it.

 

[midwestfisherman]

You can't sue for sucking! (At football that is)

 

[Childs]

His rookie combine performance was disastrous.. especially his explosiveness (vertical). His performance was even worse in the veteran's combine.

I can see players dropping because of their combine performance, but I would think someone would keep him on because of what he did over his college career. At least for half a season. James Harrison came out of college with a 5.2 40y time. He went undrafted, but he was able to make a team. I know I keep coming back to this, but its a big deal. He was SEC DPOY. That should be just as an effective measurable than combine stats.

I should reiterate I never once stated that he should sue. I was merely stating from the beginning I find it hard to believe a SEC DPOY wouldnt make a roster. You can always come up with a reason here or there as to why someone didnt make it, but guys of that caliber always initially make it somewhere, even if its just for a cup of coffee.

 

[Childs]

He was too small and slow. Jackson Jeffcoat, the Big 12 defensive player of the year in 2013 went undrafted as well. Awards do not automatically make these players NFL viable.

Michael Sam sounds like he has some serious issues to deal with outside of football.

But he still made a roster. Guys of that caliber always do, if only for a little while. It very well be that when Sam came out the mental pressure from the media and the NFL locker room stunted his performance, which was different than Missouri where every one on the team and the school supported him.

 

[Genx87]

I can see players dropping because of their combine performance, but I would think someone would keep him on because of what he did over his college career. At least for half a season. James Harrison came out of college with a 5.2 40y time. He went undrafted, but he was able to make a team. I know I keep coming back to this, but its a big deal. He was SEC DPOY. That should be just as an effective measurable than combine stats.

I should reiterate I never once stated that he should sue. I was merely stating from the beginning I find it hard to believe a SEC DPOY wouldnt make a roster. You can always come up with a reason here or there as to why someone didnt make it, but guys of that caliber always initially make it somewhere, even if its just for a cup of coffee.

Combines measure potential athletic ability. When he turned out to be slow and small it made it difficult to draft him. Where does a team put a tweener like him that cant run?

I tend to agree that teams put too much emphasis on combine results. But Sam was drafted and didnt make a team, twice. That tells me his play on the field matched his combine results.

 

[Childs]

The NFL does not employ players. The NFL contracts with teams who employ players. If he has material evidence that proves the same team that drafted a gay man conspired to fire that same man for being gay he'll need to prove it in court to a jury.

Dumb thread.

Yeah, never said he should sue. Only way that could work is if he could prove discrimination, but he was drafted and given a shot. A cynical person would say the NFL drafted him just to avoid such a scenario.

ACC had the second highest drafted players(47). The atlantic division had the most players drafted of any division in football. Clemson has also been pretty solid over the past few years. Pac 12 and ACC tied for most amount of players taken in the 1st round(9 each).

Yeah, Miami, FSU and Clemson produce NFL talent. That quote was referring to conference competition.

Again, you kept mention 1 single player as he was the true rep for the whole conference.

SEC DPOY is an honor that represents the whole conference. That have a banquet, get dressed up, and give an award. Its a big deal, so yeah, I will continue to mention it! Unless you're saying a gay person can't represent the SEC. Is that what you're saying??? lol j/k

 

[smackababy]

Combines measure potential athletic ability. When he turned out to be slow and small it made it difficult to draft him. Where does a team put a tweener like him that cant run?

I tend to agree that teams put too much emphasis on combine results. But Sam was drafted and didnt make a team, twice. That tells me his play on the field matched his combine results.

So, he got a bit of a bad go at St. Louis. They were already deep in his position and there was a ton of competition, so he lost out. In Dallas, he possibly could have been called up, had Dallas needed him. They didn't.

And, he had an even poorer showing at the vet players combine (slower 40 and he sure didn't gain any size), so no team wanted to give him a chance. He should have spent every week training his ass off to get more explosive once Dallas let him loose. He obviously was more focused on Dancing with the Stars.

 

[Childs]

Combines measure potential athletic ability. When he turned out to be slow and small it made it difficult to draft him. Where does a team put a tweener like him that cant run?

I tend to agree that teams put too much emphasis on combine results. But Sam was drafted and didnt make a team, twice. That tells me his play on the field matched his combine results.

I think his college credentials would at least warrant special teams or practice squad consideration, with the hope that his potential could be realized during the season.

 

[Childs]

And, he had an even poorer showing at the vet players combine (slower 40 and he sure didn't gain any size), so no team wanted to give him a chance. He should have spent every week training his ass off to get more explosive once Dallas let him loose. He obviously was more focused on Dancing with the Stars.

I thought the Oprah reality show was a major red flag. Coming out is one thing, but making it a bigger deal than it needs to be wasnt going to win over any team mates.

 

[Genx87]

Yeah, Miami, FSU and Clemson produce NFL talent. That quote was referring to conference competition.

With that many NFL players the competition is better than people give them credit for imo.

SEC DPOY is an honor that represents the whole conference. That have a banquet, get dressed up, and give an award. Its a big deal, so yeah, I will continue to mention it! Unless you're saying a gay person can't represent the SEC. Is that what you're saying??? lol j/k

We should mention Michael Sam shared the defensive player of the year award with CJ Mosely.