Just let it go dude. You ask for advice and then you argue with people whose advice you don't agree with.
I don't mean to be harsh, but your problems with your daughter are only going to get worse. It sounds like you are already losing control. Do not take the easy way out for you and your wife, you have to jump on her now. If you are not willing to punish her severly because it will make your situation harder, then at least turn her in! I would prefer to punish her at home with a big cut in privileges and an intense math regimen. My father and I went through the same "battle" when I was a teenager. I hated the man and wanted to run away. He did not take the easy route, he stayed on my butt and checked up on everything I did and punished me when I screwed up. It was an intense battle of wills and he made sure that he won, at great expense to his mental state. I surely would have ended up worthless or in prison, but I am successful, honest and have good morals. My dad is one of my best friends now, and I owe him everything for not giving up. I have a 15 yr old daughter and a 16 yr old boy. My daughter is testing me in every way, and I suspect she hates me too. But I love her and I am not going to give in, I few hard years with her now will save her a lifetime of grief later. I am her father, and it is my job to make sure she turns out right, no matter what the cost.
I would get Medieval on my kids if that pulled that crap. I will not, I repeat, will not have spoiled rotten kids who don't respect authority. They will work first, and their grades will be good, or they will have no recreation. Once their schoolwork and family time has been taken care of, they can attend extra curicular school activities, hang out with their friends, and play on the computer. I refuse to work my ass off providing for them and allow them to take advantage of me. Send your kid to me Carbo, and let me straighten her out
She'll come back as a straight A student, I promise you that much. Right on!
My mother was hard on me, but I came out tough as nails. She was a single parent but didn't take crap from her kids. And we loved her dearly when she passed on. I only wish I had more time to spend with her now to show her how I turned out.
I read most of this thread. The Mrs. Tallgeese post was especially informative. Thanks for that. I am not a parent, but here are my thoughts anyway.
I see you are concerned that your child will hate you. I must point out that in one of your posts you said she has no respect for you and will point out her hate for you at the drop of a hat already. But in any event, perhaps you are worried she will hate you even more.
One possible solution might be to inform the school that in your opinion, she does not demonstrate adequate math skills, and that you suspect cheating, and that they should keep an eye on her and catch her cheating on the next exam.
Unfortunately this may not be possible if the school season is over already, is it? You mentioned summer break begins soon. Did they take the final yet?
Btw, the math they do in 7th and 8th grade is so easy that i find it hard to believe you're not proficient in it. When I was in 7th and 8th we learned order of operations, cartesian planes. Not even algebra or trig yet, so it is very easy. Admittedly I hold a BSEE degree and so may be a bit biased on that point. Also middle school was a while ago for me.
In any case good luck to you and your daughter.
I see you are concerned that your child will hate you. I must point out that in one of your posts you said she has no respect for you and will point out her hate for you at the drop of a hat already. But in any event, perhaps you are worried she will hate you even more.
One possible solution might be to inform the school that in your opinion, she does not demonstrate adequate math skills, and that you suspect cheating, and that they should keep an eye on her and catch her cheating on the next exam.
Unfortunately this may not be possible if the school season is over already, is it? You mentioned summer break begins soon. Did they take the final yet?
Btw, the math they do in 7th and 8th grade is so easy that i find it hard to believe you're not proficient in it. When I was in 7th and 8th we learned order of operations, cartesian planes. Not even algebra or trig yet, so it is very easy. Admittedly I hold a BSEE degree and so may be a bit biased on that point. Also middle school was a while ago for me.
In any case good luck to you and your daughter.
As there are already over 200 replies in the thread (many of which I have not yet read), this may have already been posted previously in some form. For one, you really cannot be positive that she did cheat even though you overhead her saying that she did, though with your previous insight it would indicate that she probably did, it's also possible she was just telling some story to a friend.
Have you talked to your wife about what you heard, and what action she might want to take?
Since cheating usually does catch up to you in the long run (unless she has completed her math studies), it's entirely possible that her teacher next year will be a sharp one who can detect cheating in his/her classroom, in which case she will have to learn the material or do poorly. If she does seem to be cheating her way along next year, then alert the teacher to your suspicions and have her more closely monitored.
Have you talked to your wife about what you heard, and what action she might want to take?
Since cheating usually does catch up to you in the long run (unless she has completed her math studies), it's entirely possible that her teacher next year will be a sharp one who can detect cheating in his/her classroom, in which case she will have to learn the material or do poorly. If she does seem to be cheating her way along next year, then alert the teacher to your suspicions and have her more closely monitored.
Duh. Now I am getting a bead on your values and parenting skills. Buddy, the fact that the world NO LONGER contains picket fences and leavit to beaver is the reason why I make SURE that they know I care...and that I am watching them. They know that when they screw up I will find out, and that there will be appropriate consequences. I know that the world is gonna treat them a lot more harsh than I ever will, and that I am doing the best I can to make sure they grow up safe and sane. You might think that you have some mysterious parent mojo that none of us understand, but it is quite clear from your few postings that you have been a casual parent at best, and now your parenting--or lack of it-- is coming to bite you on the ass.
You invite critiques to your parenting every time you rant about your kid. The fact that we strike a little too close to home may piss you off, but you are not going to shut us up...unless of course you turn off the damn computer and spend some quality time with your family.
Did you look up those two books I gave links to? Did you buy them and read them?
Of course you didn't. I would be willing to bet you haven't read more than one book on child rearing your entire life. Too bad for you. Too bad for your kids.
Havent's read the entire thread but here comes my 10 cents...
Talk to her. Tell her you know what happened and you're going to punish her. But before you punish her, make her go down to the school and talk with the guidance counsellor. Make her admit to school's personnel what she did. They'll go much easier on her if she does it herself, instead if you go down and explain everything. She should be able to retake that course in summer school if her final score was below 69%. In other words, she's able to upgrade her final mark. As the punishment, cut her phone and PC usage for the summer school time. Make her study and do more work around the house. After her summer school is over and if she made progress, reward her by giving her the old privileges (but restrict it when school starts in September). Trust me, for a kid this age admitting the deed to a school's counsellor is too much punishment already.
Hope that helps and good luck.
Talk to her. Tell her you know what happened and you're going to punish her. But before you punish her, make her go down to the school and talk with the guidance counsellor. Make her admit to school's personnel what she did. They'll go much easier on her if she does it herself, instead if you go down and explain everything. She should be able to retake that course in summer school if her final score was below 69%. In other words, she's able to upgrade her final mark. As the punishment, cut her phone and PC usage for the summer school time. Make her study and do more work around the house. After her summer school is over and if she made progress, reward her by giving her the old privileges (but restrict it when school starts in September). Trust me, for a kid this age admitting the deed to a school's counsellor is too much punishment already.
Hope that helps and good luck
.Don't turn her in.
What you need to realize is that even if she aced the test, that still wouldn't mean that she knows math, because the standards are very low. If you need your daughter to learn math, find her a math tutor. I mean one on one instruction. If you can find someone from former USSR, even better. They teach math very differently and seriously there. There are Math Olympiads for highschoolers starting with 9th grade on schooldistrict levels up to national and international levels.
Sample
Education in Russia is very differently than here. Instead of taking a 1 year class like geometry, and then forgetting about it and moving on to something else, in Russia, they start algebra and geometry in 7th or 8th grade and continue on to 11th (last grade) in parallel. So by the time you get out of high school, you had 4 years of geometry and 4 years of Algebra/Math Analysis/Calculus. Much more depth.
Same thing with Chemistry. They start with nonorganic chemistry, and then go through organic in another year. Biology starts with botanics in 7th grade, then Zoology in 8th grade, Anatomy in 9th grade.
Also, to get into a Russian university, you have to take an exam similar to that link above, in physics and math, and write an essay.
There are no lame multiple choice SAT tests.
What you need to realize is that even if she aced the test, that still wouldn't mean that she knows math, because the standards are very low. If you need your daughter to learn math, find her a math tutor. I mean one on one instruction. If you can find someone from former USSR, even better. They teach math very differently and seriously there. There are Math Olympiads for highschoolers starting with 9th grade on schooldistrict levels up to national and international levels.
Sample
Education in Russia is very differently than here. Instead of taking a 1 year class like geometry, and then forgetting about it and moving on to something else, in Russia, they start algebra and geometry in 7th or 8th grade and continue on to 11th (last grade) in parallel. So by the time you get out of high school, you had 4 years of geometry and 4 years of Algebra/Math Analysis/Calculus. Much more depth.
Same thing with Chemistry. They start with nonorganic chemistry, and then go through organic in another year. Biology starts with botanics in 7th grade, then Zoology in 8th grade, Anatomy in 9th grade.
Also, to get into a Russian university, you have to take an exam similar to that link above, in physics and math, and write an essay.
There are no lame multiple choice SAT tests.
just because his daughter doesn't know math doesn't mean she's retarded and needs a tutor. math, physics and chemistry are easy because you get very good grades if you just DO THE HOMEWORK. keep in touch with the teach to see if she's actually doing her work.
seriously turn her in though, it teaches her that society does not put up with BS and they deal with it very seriously and not just a slap on the wrist like she may think.
seriously turn her in though, it teaches her that society does not put up with BS and they deal with it very seriously and not just a slap on the wrist like she may think.
Not only Russia does it but most of the Eastern European countries; Poland, Czech Republic, Ukraine, Romania, etc...
Why is everyone in this thread so absorbed with finding this girl a math tutor, making her take remedial math, etc. Her math score is not the problem. The problem is that she [edit] cheated on a math test and thinks she got away with it. It doesn't matter if it was math, latin or science. The point is that she cheated and she needs to be punished for that. Jesus Christ get a clue.
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Please get your own clue, and watch your mouth on our forums.
AnandTech Moderator
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Please get your own clue, and watch your mouth on our forums.
AnandTech Moderator
Hivemaster, you read books to determine how to relate to your children? Clearly, you've studied The Idiot's Guide to Parenting. That would explain your cut and dry approach to handling situations and issues that have no cut and dry solution. If your ideas on parenting are obtained from the latest best selling psycho babble and trend setting methodoligies, how sad is that? Parenting in a box...........sheesh, now I've heard it all. Now, go watch Oprah.
You mean you didn't immediately run out and purchase those books. WTF is wrong with you. Hidemaster knows everything. Just ask him. Anyone who doesn't follow his instructions to the letter is just a damn fool.
where might i find this "Learn Parenting in 21 Days" book you speak of?
do tutors actually do anything? usualy if you just ask the teacher how something works, they will gladly show you.....every teacher in my school has 1 lunch hour of the week where he/she helps students do stuff they don't understand for that subject
do tutors actually do anything? usualy if you just ask the teacher how something works, they will gladly show you.....every teacher in my school has 1 lunch hour of the week where he/she helps students do stuff they don't understand for that subject
There is a pretty good split between:
1. People who think the only way to teach your child is through pain and suffering
2. People who think the only way to teach your child is through explanation and questioning
I wonder what causes this split, is it the way these people were innitially raised?
I believe that a child needs to learn that there is responsibility for their actions. But I also believe they can learn this lesson without feeling the wrath of the school as a first hand demonstration. Just like I don't need to be shot to understand that a bullet hurts. Like the old example goes, you tell a kid not to touch the stove 12 times but he won't stop until s/he goes and burns their hands. What would happen if you explained to the kid WHY we don't touch stoves before they touch it? It seems we, as humans, find it easier to simply tell someone not to do something than explain why. That is understandable as we forget they don't have the same knowledge as us, but that hardly passes as an excuse.
Not everybody needs to be burned.
1. People who think the only way to teach your child is through pain and suffering
2. People who think the only way to teach your child is through explanation and questioning
I wonder what causes this split, is it the way these people were innitially raised?
I believe that a child needs to learn that there is responsibility for their actions. But I also believe they can learn this lesson without feeling the wrath of the school as a first hand demonstration. Just like I don't need to be shot to understand that a bullet hurts. Like the old example goes, you tell a kid not to touch the stove 12 times but he won't stop until s/he goes and burns their hands. What would happen if you explained to the kid WHY we don't touch stoves before they touch it? It seems we, as humans, find it easier to simply tell someone not to do something than explain why. That is understandable as we forget they don't have the same knowledge as us, but that hardly passes as an excuse.
Not everybody needs to be burned.
skace, do you really think this works? I have twin 4-year-old brothers. My mom tells them not to touch the stove as they'll hurt themselves and it will be very painful. Do you think they listen? No, nobody does. Kids are young and curious. They will do it until they they feel their mistake. Than they won't do it again. I've been in school and I've cheated on a couple of tests. Sometimes there's an urge to cheat if you haven't studied because you were lazy. Yes, kids do know it's wrong but the thought goes on in their mind that they won't get caught cheating, and that's when they do it. I don't think you should turn a kid in for cheating on a simple math test because EVERYONE cheats on something in school. I don't believe there's a person that has never copied homework or an answer to a test, etc. If she cheated on a final year course exam than you have a problem. Read a few posts up what I suggested. Trust me, that will teach your kid a lot.
i think kids learn through pain and suffering or seeing what can be done as a result of____
sort of like that part on Titus once (that show sucked but stay with me here), Chris said "my father was never one to give knowledge out, he would just let us learn it for ourselfs" then it shows Chris playing near a light socket and his mother says "don't touch that Christopher, it will hurt you" then his father says "no wait, go ahead son, touch it" then you can hear a loud ZAP then his father says "heheh i bet you won't do that again now will you son?"
kids learn from experience, if you say "stay in school or you will end up a bum" they will think you're just being a moron but if you actually kick them out of the house because they are no longer in school, they find out VERY fast how important education is in getting a good job.
sort of like that part on Titus once (that show sucked but stay with me here), Chris said "my father was never one to give knowledge out, he would just let us learn it for ourselfs" then it shows Chris playing near a light socket and his mother says "don't touch that Christopher, it will hurt you" then his father says "no wait, go ahead son, touch it" then you can hear a loud ZAP then his father says "heheh i bet you won't do that again now will you son?"
kids learn from experience, if you say "stay in school or you will end up a bum" they will think you're just being a moron but if you actually kick them out of the house because they are no longer in school, they find out VERY fast how important education is in getting a good job.
bugsysiegel
Golden Member
- Jan 11, 2001
- 1,213
- 1
- 81
Hard to believe that people come here for advice on parenting, when it's well known that most of us here are either single or too young to comment intelligently, or both.
here we go again, a person that has to start putting jewish people into the middle of this
SHUT THE FU*K UP
SHUT THE FU*K UP
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