Should California be free?

[zerocool84]

I am saying let's get an accurate tally of who wants to change the status quo. The Californians who think they are getting a raw deal from the Feds can voice their displeasure in a poll. The attitude of those who may dislike the way things are going in California that don't reside there are influenced by their own jealousy.

???

Just because 3 or 4 people in this thread, some of which aren't even from Cali think "they are getting a raw deal from the Feds" doesn't mean Californians want to secede from the country.

 

[Zedtom]

???

Just because 3 or 4 people in this thread, some of which aren't even from Cali think "they are getting a raw deal from the Feds" doesn't mean Californians want to secede from the country.

Are you sure? The OP throws out a idea for people to chew on and I interject the concept of fear. Americans from any state, (not just Californians), are too afraid to break free.

 

[zerocool84]

Are you sure? The OP throws out a idea for people to chew on and I interject the concept of fear. Americans from any state, (not just Californians), are too afraid to break free.

No they're not. Many times there's been sections of the country trying to secede. Right now in Northern California/Southern Oregon, there's a section called State of Jefferson that's been trying to secede for a couple years.

 

[Zedtom]

No they're not. Many times there's been sections of the country trying to secede. Right now in Northern California/Southern Oregon, there's a section called State of Jefferson that's been trying to secede for a couple years.

So you're a Californian- what do you think and what have you heard people say?

 

[IGBT]

needs to be divided up into two possibly three states for equal and fair representation.

 

[zerocool84]

So you're a Californian- what do you think and what have you heard people say?

I as the whole country, have more important things to worry about than seceding from the country right now.

 

[Malak]

Are you sure? The OP throws out a idea for people to chew on and I interject the concept of fear. Americans from any state, (not just Californians), are too afraid to break free.

That is why I dislike Lincoln, he ruined a possibly better future.

 

[pcgeek11]

Although CA does pay in more federal taxes than what they receive, they are not in the lead in this, they would be eighth. They are still a welfare state as measured per capita. regardless of how much you would like to dismiss this. And the US would not collapse without CA. All federal funds are not for welfare

This does not make much sense. Your statement California is a welfare state as measured per capita totally disregards the fact that California gives the Federal government far, far more in money than they get back. The number of people on welfare has nothing to do with this. Most of the large states have a greater percentage of people on welfare. And you're claim that California is only eighth worst in regards to the percentage they get back is nonsense. Four of the states that get back less are New Hampshire, Delaware, Nevada and Connecticutt. Three have small populations and Connecticut is a small state but very wealthy.
In actual dollars California loses the most money because of its very low percentage of money returned and the huge amount of money it pays in due to its large numbers of people and high income per capita.



Other States are NOT why CA is neck deep in debt. They just try and blame it on everyone else. California is its own worst enemy, Period. California need to stop living in denial and face the facts.

Wrong. California would not be in debt if it got back merely one dollar for every dollar they paid to the feds. How is that their fault?
California does have to take some blame since they listened to the Republicans and passed Proposition 13 which severly hindered Californias ability to raise revenue. Plus, California, being a border state, also has the same problem the other border states have with illegal immigrants, mulitplied by Californias large population.




But the state has had an insatiable appetite for debt in recent years. In the last decade, the debt per resident has tripled, to $2,362, according to the credit-rating agency Moody's Investors Service.

California is in the same situation as many other states. Due to Republican mismanagement of the economy many states have had to drastically increase debt the last few years. Californias numbers are just bigger since its the second biggest state.


Voters have approved borrowing in the last 10 years for such causes as stem-cell research ($3 billion), high-speed rail ($10 billion), and parks, water and the environment ($14 billion). They even took on $15 billion in debt to paper over a deficit that Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger said would never reemerge — something economists have scolded the state for doing.

Yes, that's what they did. California is attempting to keep the state moving forward. Other states have basically decided to stop doing things like infrastructure, etc and will pay for that enormously in the long run. Businesses that don't reinvest in themselves eventually go out of business. California is taking the steps necessary to keep up their infrastructure so, for example, unlike New Jersey, ten years from now the state will find its transportation adequate unlike New Jersey which just ensured economic stagnation when their transportation infrastructure is overwhelmed in the next few years.

Because of its rock-bottom credit rating, California pays a premium for its loans. Taxpayers must fork over roughly $2 for every $1 borrowed — about 20% more than top-rated states, said Matt Fabian, an analyst at Municipal Market Advisors, a bond research firm.

Yeah, if only California wasn't in a mess due in a large part to the economic collapse caused by things like the Republican Great Recession and the misguided attempt to "privatize" electrical power generation. Not to mention that pesky Proposition 13. Oh, and the hundreds of billions that they pay to the feds to support the failed welfare queen states.

Thanks you made my point:

Its the republicans fault, Its the welfare states fault, Its the illegal aliens fault ... Bla Bla Bla.

Ultimately it is Californians fault for living a lifestyle of the rich and famous without the money to pay for it except by borrowing money.

Anything else is just denial on your part. I am truely sorry you have problems with reality.

 

[Train]

Jesusland people tend to turn violent and pillagy when things don't work out their way. It must be easy to take and do whatever you want when you justify it as will of God.

lol. L.A. is the Capital City of Riots/Looting

 

[pcgeek11]

If the US were split up into a Pacific coastal country of Cali, Oregon, and Washington, a western country, a southeastern country, a midwestern country, and a Northeastern one, only the northeastern and Pacific coastal countries would be really rich. There are a ton of shitty southern states that are just dead weight welfare queen parasites on the rest of the country.

You are illiterate.

California PAYS MORE TO THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT IN TAXES THAN IT RECEIVES FROM FEDERAL SPENDING!

Your idiotic post did not counter that statement. There's more to federal spending than welfare checks, you [egregiously stupid person].

Sorry dipshit. You called the "welfare card" in your post quoted above. I just posted the welfare numbers of which California is the Number One in Welfare Payments.

And they are addicted to debt like some kind of Crack Whore State.

The truth hurts don't it.

 

[Reckoner]

That is why I dislike Lincoln, he ruined a possibly better future.

Don't take this the wrong way, but are you fucking insane?

 

[Malak]

Don't take this the wrong way, but are you fucking insane?

This country has never been united and the individual parts would be stronger than the sum.

 

[rudder]

you must be confused, welfare checks is a nice way to dodge the issue, the issue is which states get more than their fair share of the federal tax revenue, and that is mostly red states. you know this, which is why you had to do the rather odd thing of doing a listing of state by welfare checks which is not related to anything we are discussing. it doesn't matter if california is paying a lot of welfare checks if it is also paying for some of the welfare checks in the red states it is doing more than the rest.

http://www.visualeconomics.com/united-states-federal-tax-dollars/
some pictures to help you out.

Holy misleading graphics batman... take DC for instance... what percentage of the population pay $11,000 per year in taxes? Yes it is a small number of very wealthy people paying the majority of taxes where the rest of the DC population files for EIC.

Same thing with California... people here are spouting we send this and that to the Federal government and only get 60 cents back on the dollar!!!! Well I hate to break it to you but that ratio is benefited by some very wealthy Californians. What percentage of California's citizens are in the top tax brackets? What percentage are eligible for earned income credits? Yes Alaska gets way back more per dollar spent... but they have a much smaller population, a lot of interstates and airports to maintain. They do not have the benefit of a silicon valley. The majority of the people living there can be considered recipients rather than donors... just like the state of California.

 

[Dominato3r]

Liberal states are better than conservatives ones?

/stirs the pot

 

[destrekor]

The rest of the USA would tumble even further without Cali. The rest of the states need us more than we need them.

Almost all of your industry needs our money to keep it running.

Meanwhile, we'll just push for all the major industry leaders to establish sites somewhere here.. and they'd desperately want to if the alternative is a loss of a major market.

 

[zerocool84]

Almost all of your industry needs our money to keep it running.

Meanwhile, we'll just push for all the major industry leaders to establish sites somewhere here.. and they'd desperately want to if the alternative is a loss of a major market.

Do you know how populated California is?

 

[SSSnail]

Sorry dipshit. You called the "welfare card" in your post quoted above. I just posted the welfare numbers of which California is the Number One in Welfare Payments.

And they are addicted to debt like some kind of Crack Whore State.

The truth hurts don't it.

As a denizen in the great state of California, allow me to rebut your assessment when you lumped all of Californians into the welfare loving, debt addict bucket.

The only people that are addicted, as you put it, to the debts are the democrats and progressives that wants to remain in power. They are the enablers of this subclass of people that are dependent on welfare, handouts and social programs. Every welfare recipient is a guaranteed democratic vote, so are Unions members, and public employees. They are the ones addicted to the debt, which means power.

It's no DUH that California is number one in welfare payment, because it has most people in it. You're surprised? It is also deeply democratic, and not in the good sense.

Anyways, California - while a great economy - should not be on its own. The United States work, because we're all together. While in a decline, it would be devastated if the Union breaks apart. All we'd have left are a bunch of third world countries, and a few mediocre ones.

One more thing, you know why California is number one in welfare payment? I don't know by having 12 more millions people living in it than the next, which is Texas, has anything to do with it.

 

[IGBT]

all California property owners can thank prop 13 for holding down property taxes and allowing them to affordability own a home. And get ready for more prop-13 propositions in 2012. Property taxes will be reduced yet again. This will force public schools to start across the board tuition and unload public school education off the tax payers back and move it where it belongs. The parents of the kids. Along with the end of the home mortgage deduction it's time for parents to accept full financial responsibility for their kids education . The party is over. Their your kids. You pay for em.

 

[herm0016]

we can shut off much of the natural gas supply to the country. maybe thats why we get a bit more, though we are pretty close to 1 to 1 and one of the least populated states. yay wyoming.

 

[destrekor]

Do you know how populated California is?

I'm not debating whether or not the U.S. would take a hit.
The U.S. economy would take a fairly nasty hit, it would be a severe sting that takes perhaps a decade or two for recovery... but most likely, the hurt would also be both dulled and pro-longed because of an adjustment to industry, as major players relocate and get new production lines moving with new suppliers.

The Californian economy would lose a major link, and if most trade-based ties are indeed severed, the economy would take a devastating hit. The state would have to restructure how the industry and economy operate.

 

[pcgeek11]

As a denizen in the great state of California, allow me to rebut your assessment when you lumped all of Californians into the welfare loving, debt addict bucket.

The only people that are addicted, as you put it, to the debts are the democrats and progressives that wants to remain in power. They are the enablers of this subclass of people that are dependent on welfare, handouts and social programs. Every welfare recipient is a guaranteed democratic vote, so are Unions members, and public employees. They are the ones addicted to the debt, which means power.

It's no DUH that California is number one in welfare payment, because it has most people in it. You're surprised? It is also deeply democratic, and not in the good sense.

Anyways, California - while a great economy - should not be on its own. The United States work, because we're all together. While in a decline, it would be devastated if the Union breaks apart. All we'd have left are a bunch of third world countries, and a few mediocre ones.

One more thing, you know why California is number one in welfare payment? I don't know by having 12 more millions people living in it than the next, which is Texas, has anything to do with it.

I wasn' talking of the individual people in the state. It was in reference to the Government and state leadership as a whole. However I am sure that a Large Number of Individuals also fall under this also. A very large number.

The Welfare numbers posted were based on a percentage of Population.

Edit:
California Specs from the article:

% of pop. on assistance: 3.30% This is even worse considering the Population of CA.
2007 spending: $3.28 billion
Total recipients (July 2008): 1,212,893
% Change in past 12 months: 10.4%
Unemployment (May 2009): 11.5%

 

[zerocool84]

I'm not debating whether or not the U.S. would take a hit.
The U.S. economy would take a fairly nasty hit, it would be a severe sting that takes perhaps a decade or two for recovery... but most likely, the hurt would also be both dulled and pro-longed because of an adjustment to industry, as major players relocate and get new production lines moving with new suppliers.

The Californian economy would lose a major link, and if most trade-based ties are indeed severed, the economy would take a devastating hit. The state would have to restructure how the industry and economy operate.

and for some reason you think the rest of the US wouldn't need to restructure how their industry and economy operated? California is the most important state in the country. There is not one state that's more important to this country than California. It's impossible for the US to operate without California and it's impossible for California to operate without the rest of the US. It'd be more than just a decade or two for recovery. California produces so many goods for the rest of the world/country, it's more than just a few decades. All the infrastructure that would have to be built up to be re-routed would be insane. Plus all these companies that are fully ingrained here would need to move as well which isn't easy either. Plus all the extra money needing to import how much food products we make here would hurt the economy a lot as well.

 

[SSSnail]

I wasn' talking of the individual people in the state. It was in reference to the Government and state leadership as a whole. However I am sure that a Large Number of Individuals also fall under this also. A very large number.

The Welfare numbers posted were based on a percentage of Population.

Edit:
California Specs from the article:

% of pop. on assistance: 3.30% This is even worse considering the Population of CA.
2007 spending: $3.28 billion
Total recipients (July 2008): 1,212,893
% Change in past 12 months: 10.4%
Unemployment (May 2009): 11.5%

According to this http://www.statemaster.com/graph/eco_wel_cas_tot_rec_percap-caseloads-total-recipients-per-capita, California is at 5th by percentage. Hardly "number one".

 

[preslove]

Sorry dipshit. You called the "welfare card" in your post quoted above. I just posted the welfare numbers of which California is the Number One in Welfare Payments.

And they are addicted to debt like some kind of Crack Whore State.

The truth hurts don't it.

Jesus fucking christ you are a stupid lump. I wasn't talking about actual welfare, I was making a metaphor.

Again, California pays more to the federal government than it receives in federal spending. Mississippi receives more federal spending than it sends in taxes. California could pay all of its welfare and medicaid money without federal support, whereas Mississippi cannot.

Do you seriously not understand my point?

Probably not...

 

[Capt Caveman]

I wasn' talking of the individual people in the state. It was in reference to the Government and state leadership as a whole. However I am sure that a Large Number of Individuals also fall under this also. A very large number.

The Welfare numbers posted were based on a percentage of Population.

Edit:
California Specs from the article:

% of pop. on assistance: 3.30% This is even worse considering the Population of CA.
2007 spending: $3.28 billion
Total recipients (July 2008): 1,212,893
% Change in past 12 months: 10.4%
Unemployment (May 2009): 11.5%

Even with all of those unemployed and on welfare, the state of CA still contributes more federal tax revenue than any other state.