Shots fired at GOP Congressional baseball practice

[DrunkenSano]

I think their point may be that, in a time and place as polarized and rapidly degenerating as today's America, it's worth making it clear that you stand against this sort of thing. The time for silence is long past; we're now at the point where standing by means tacitly agreeing with these people. Get loud in your opposition.

The problem is that it leaves the centrists and moderates with little choice but to pick one extreme side or the other. What we need at this time is the opposite. We do not need people being pushed further and further away from the middle, we need to pull people back in towards the middle from the edges so people can start working together again towards a solution that works for the majority of the people.

 

[Azuma Hazuki]

Sano, don't fall for the golden mean fallacy. There is no left wing in this country. Know who's a centrist? Bernie Sanders.

I'll believe there's an extreme left wing in this party when I see a thriving Communist Party with 5+ million members in it. Until then, the reality is we have a center-right "median" and a very large far-loonie-right fringe.

 

[xthetenth]

So what label do those few tid bits add up to?

Do you look to one group looking for the excuse while you're ready with a denouncement for others? If so, that's what those or any tid bits add up to, it literally doesn't matter what they are.

Alternately, is there one group who try as you might, you simply cannot excuse? If so, their strongest opposition.

 

[agent00f]

So what label do those few tid bits add up to?

Someone who for all the fake rationalization can't name tax cuts they didn't like.

I mean, this isn't some nuanced political guessing game. You parrot the fox news playbook on most everything, eg. reliably disparaging blm to protect the klan (just like trump, who also knows that playbook works) and run the same interference for the 2nd amendment shooty folks here, then act all indignant that someone has the gall to categorize you a textbook conservative.

 

[DrunkenSano]

Sano, don't fall for the golden mean fallacy. There is no left wing in this country. Know who's a centrist? Bernie Sanders.

I'll believe there's an extreme left wing in this party when I see a thriving Communist Party with 5+ million members in it. Until then, the reality is we have a center-right "median" and a very large far-loonie-right fringe.

You are right that as a country, we are more right wing compared to our European counter-parts, there is no arguing that. But I believe the main reason for that is how this country was built up and also the massive difference in size. There are many more left leaning forms of governments and reforms in Europe that would never work for the US just because of our size and background. Gun control is one of the easy ones to pick out. Due to the history of the US, guns have been a major part of this country's culture. In combination with the size of this country, it would be hard to just remove guns out of people's hands. Whereas in many of the smaller countries, it's much easier to implement strict gun controls laws and keep guns out of reach for most of the population.

As for the more 'centrist' people in the US? They are definitely right leaning globally, but these people are those that do support conservative views on some subjects while more liberal views on others. However, with the way politics is being discussed now, it's like if you don't fully agree with all conservative views, you are a dirty liberal or if you don't agree with all liberal views, you're a conservative pig.

 

[OutHouse]

lolno. not even close

LOL yes its a spot on assessment of the left loons.

None called for violence.

Oh really? looks like the left has turned in the halos and put on horns.

https://heatst.com/culture-wars/ant...nce-against-trump-supporters-and-capitalists/

 

[zinfamous]

LOL yes its a spot on assessment of the left loons.

all emotion; no data and no facts. I posted some data and a decades-long assessment. You posted nothing. Until you offer an actual rebuttal, you are simply wrong. The GOP has lied to you for decades. You won't accept that you have been conned--I get that--but try to not abuse your children by feeding them such vitriol that will doom them to a life just as shitty as yours.

 

[dank69]

Sure but you must then tell me what you think I'm defined as.

I believe government spending should be reduced because politicians of both parties appear incapable of directing tax revenue in a completely unbiased and unselfish manner devoid of lobbyist pressure and pork that inevitably results from backroom trading of support and votes.

I would support reducing annual defense spending by 8 - 12% for 4 straight years while directing those funds to greater education, social, and infrastructure spending.

I would gladly increase my tax liability if it resulted in a reversal of the deterioration middle class and associated problems.

I just don't see any reason to think we're capable of electing a body deserving of increased tax revenue.

So what label do those few tid bits add up to?

Yes I am aware that fiscal conservative means many thing to many people, and if you had simply answered yes, I would have follow up with asking what it means to you. I think most people would agree that a major component of it is reducing government spending, regardless of the reasoning behind that desire, and your first belief I think fulfills that requirement.

I am not here to pigeon hole you, but I think you fit the definition of a fiscal conservative. It is nice to see your other beliefs because it means you are on the sane end of fiscal conservatism. I think your fixation on "unbiased and unselfish" direction is both noble, and a waste of energy. I think eliminating malicious corruption is the best we can hope for.

 

[dank69]

You are right that as a country, we are more right wing compared to our European counter-parts, there is no arguing that. But I believe the main reason for that is how this country was built up and also the massive difference in size. There are many more left leaning forms of governments and reforms in Europe that would never work for the US just because of our size and background. Gun control is one of the easy ones to pick out. Due to the history of the US, guns have been a major part of this country's culture. In combination with the size of this country, it would be hard to just remove guns out of people's hands. Whereas in many of the smaller countries, it's much easier to implement strict gun controls laws and keep guns out of reach for most of the population.

As for the more 'centrist' people in the US? They are definitely right leaning globally, but these people are those that do support conservative views on some subjects while more liberal views on others. However, with the way politics is being discussed now, it's like if you don't fully agree with all conservative views, you are a dirty liberal or if you don't agree with all liberal views, you're a conservative pig.

That last part is bullshit for the most part. You might find a few liberals that act and speak that way, and the "Bernie Bros" certainly ride that line lately, but for the most part it takes a serious transgression for a liberal to fall out of favor.

 

[imported_tajmahal]

Sano, don't fall for the golden mean fallacy. There is no left wing in this country. Know who's a centrist? Bernie Sanders.

I'll believe there's an extreme left wing in this party when I see a thriving Communist Party with 5+ million members in it. Until then, the reality is we have a center-right "median" and a very large far-loonie-right fringe.

lol, what an idiot. You yearn for the bomb and violence filled days of the Weathermen and the SDS.

 

[agent00f]

You are right that as a country, we are more right wing compared to our European counter-parts, there is no arguing that. But I believe the main reason for that is how this country was built up and also the massive difference in size. There are many more left leaning forms of governments and reforms in Europe that would never work for the US just because of our size and background. Gun control is one of the easy ones to pick out. Due to the history of the US, guns have been a major part of this country's culture. In combination with the size of this country, it would be hard to just remove guns out of people's hands. Whereas in many of the smaller countries, it's much easier to implement strict gun controls laws and keep guns out of reach for most of the population.

As for the more 'centrist' people in the US? They are definitely right leaning globally, but these people are those that do support conservative views on some subjects while more liberal views on others. However, with the way politics is being discussed now, it's like if you don't fully agree with all conservative views, you are a dirty liberal or if you don't agree with all liberal views, you're a conservative pig.

Liberalism is simply a result of modern western education, and it's just a fact that podunk backward areas aren't exactly known for sophisticated learning. For example, to simple people opinions are more like sports teams they happen to pick, when smarter thinkers know why some are far more valid than others.

 

[Azuma Hazuki]

@imported_tajmahal: don't you have some crayons to be shoving up your nose or something? Bloody well piss off, the grownups are talking.

 

[agent00f]

all emotion; no data and no facts. I posted some data and a decades-long assessment. You posted nothing. Until you offer an actual rebuttal, you are simply wrong. The GOP has lied to you for decades. You won't accept that you have been conned--I get that--but try to not abuse your children by feeding them such vitriol that will doom them to a life just as shitty as yours.

It's not really "lying" if the target is selfishly motivated to believe it no matter what. For example, people who want that tax cut $ and thus will readily believe the money was just going to be wasted on undesirable ethnic people anyway.

Yes I am aware that fiscal conservative means many thing to many people, and if you had simply answered yes, I would have follow up with asking what it means to you. I think most people would agree that a major component of it is reducing government spending, regardless of the reasoning behind that desire, and your first belief I think fulfills that requirement.

I am not here to pigeon hole you, but I think you fit the definition of a fiscal conservative. It is nice to see your other beliefs because it means you are on the sane end of fiscal conservatism. I think your fixation on "unbiased and unselfish" direction is both noble, and a waste of energy. I think eliminating malicious corruption is the best we can hope for.

People do lie though, such as pretending they'll be for a responsible budget when they know that their own elected leaders (you know, republicans) will never fail to make any budget irresponsible.

 

[davmat787]

Yes I am aware that fiscal conservative means many thing to many people, and if you had simply answered yes, I would have follow up with asking what it means to you. I think most people would agree that a major component of it is reducing government spending, regardless of the reasoning behind that desire, and your first belief I think fulfills that requirement.

I am not here to pigeon hole you, but I think you fit the definition of a fiscal conservative. It is nice to see your other beliefs because it means you are on the sane end of fiscal conservatism. I think your fixation on "unbiased and unselfish" direction is both noble, and a waste of energy. I think eliminating malicious corruption is the best we can hope for.

I disagree I fit that label, at least if my assumption in how you define that is correct. But that's ok. If I had to provide the label it might be a Fiscal Accountability. Again I have no problems with increased taxes, but not so much when I have zero confidence in their ROI.

All tax funds should be tied to goals and metrics that would easily show if the funds were used properly or not and justified the expenditure. As an example let's say some lower level director asks for increased funds so he can add five employees that will then allow his or her department to provide whatever intergovernmental IT service it performs which will allow it's customers to return to normal operations in 48 hours instead of last fiscal years average of 5 business days. The decreased downtime results in increased productivity of around 3 business days per employee affected per ticket.

The department is awarded the finds but at the end of it's fiscal year can it be shown the turnaround decreased to 48 hours? If yes they get those funds again to retain the additional headcount.

I detest having to be involved in budgetary planning but we had to show every dollar was used to meet the justification we used to get those dollars. I hope I'm explaining this clear enough to convey my point.

Whether we agree or not I certainly thank you for taking the time to reply to me civilly and provide clarification. Much appreciated.

 

[agent00f]

I think their point may be that, in a time and place as polarized and rapidly degenerating as today's America, it's worth making it clear that you stand against this sort of thing. The time for silence is long past; we're now at the point where standing by means tacitly agreeing with these people. Get loud in your opposition.

Why would davmat787 stand against this sort of thing when klan & 2A votes are critical to his side winning on tax cuts? That's literally how the politics of it works.

I disagree I fit that label, at least if my assumption in how you define that is correct.

Again I'm more than willing to have a greater tax liability once I have confidence in those who direct the spending of the tax revenue.

All tax funds should be tied to goals and metrics that would easily show if the funds were used properly or not and justified the expenditure. As an example let's say some lower level director asks for increased funds so he can add five employees that will then allow his or her department to provide whatever intergovernmental IT service it performs which will allow it's customers to return to normal operations in 48 hours instead of last fiscal years average of 5 business days. The decreased downtime results in increased productivity of around 3 business days per employee affected days per ticket

Oh I'm sure arbitrary metrics and whatever other excuses are the Real reason why fiscal degens never met a tax cut they didn't like.

Eg. their "solution" to healthcare is a tax cut which'll drop coverage for millions. Environment/climate change? Obvious fake science which can only be solved with a (tax) cut to the EPA & whatever other science foundation. Makes no sense? That's only because we haven't cut enough taxes, duh.

 

[DrunkenSano]

Liberalism is simply a result of modern western education, and it's just a fact that podunk backward areas aren't exactly known for sophisticated learning. For example, to simple people opinions are more like sports teams they happen to pick, when smarter thinkers know why some are far more valid than others.

You are right that liberalism is more modern western education, which is why urban areas tend to be more democratic leaning while the rural areas are more republican leaning. But that is the reality we live in, in rural areas, they will always be a bit further behind than the urban areas. Because that is the life out there, most of them don't need the things that people who live in urban areas need. To some, it is a completely different world comparing their lives to 'city life'. For them, the biggest event of the week is the local high school football game that is played that week. So in their life, they don't need nor do they care about a lot of the more sophisticated issues, until it affects them directly. And usually what affects them is unwanted change, like coal going away, steel going away, manufacturing jobs going away due to automation, etc. So they will cling onto whatever they can to keep the same-old same-old, which usually is the conservative view. But can you blame them?

 

[xthetenth]

I disagree I fit that label, at least if my assumption in how you define that is correct. But that's ok. If I had to provide the label it might be a Fiscal Accountability. Again I have no problems with increased taxes, but not so much when I have zero confidence in their ROI.

If you don't mind answering this, how do you determine whether something has an adequate ROI? Do you try and sit down and get your hands on numbers, or do you start to squirm when you hear reports of fraud and waste even if you don't know what the positive effects of the program they're tied to or how that waste compares to the overall expenditure on the program?

Also, would you consider it better or worse to spend a certain amount of money on enforcement or lose it to fraud, and why?

 

[agent00f]

You are right that liberalism is more modern western education, which is why urban areas tend to be more democratic leaning while the rural areas are more republican leaning. But that is the reality we live in, in rural areas, they will always be a bit further behind than the urban areas. Because that is the life out there, most of them don't need the things that people who live in urban areas need. To some, it is a completely different world comparing their lives to 'city life'. For them, the biggest event of the week is the local high school football game that is played that week. So in their life, they don't need nor do they care about a lot of the more sophisticated issues, until it affects them directly. And usually what affects them is unwanted change, like coal going away, steel going away, manufacturing jobs going away due to automation, etc. So they will cling onto whatever they can to keep the same-old same-old, which usually is the conservative view. But can you blame them?

The underlying tenet of western liberalism is doing what's right broadly instead of only following selfish interests, which is in large part why those generally poorer rural areas are heavily subsidized by liberal ones. So your question is why the former should care about the latter, but ask yourself why the latter ever gave a shit about the former to improve their quality of life, esp with so little gratitude in return. The answer is the fundamental difference between said liberalism and conservatism, and why morally virtuous people favor one over the other.

 

[Jhhnn]

LOL yes its a spot on assessment of the left loons.



Oh really? looks like the left has turned in the halos and put on horns.

https://heatst.com/culture-wars/ant...nce-against-trump-supporters-and-capitalists/

You apparently don't realize that I was talking about party leadership. I apologize if that wasn't clear. Antifa is no part of the leadership of the Democratic Party.

 

[Jhhnn]

The problem is that it leaves the centrists and moderates with little choice but to pick one extreme side or the other. What we need at this time is the opposite. We do not need people being pushed further and further away from the middle, we need to pull people back in towards the middle from the edges so people can start working together again towards a solution that works for the majority of the people.

Now isn't the time to cheer lead for Hillary. She already lost.

 

[imported_tajmahal]

@imported_tajmahal: don't you have some crayons to be shoving up your nose or something? Bloody well piss off, the grownups are talking.

Every time you pinch a progressive Democrat an authoritarian national Socialist squeals like the pigs they are.

 

[zinfamous]

Every time you pinch a progressive Democrat an authoritarian national Socialist squeals like the pigs they are.

You sound like a Hasbro-designed cartoon villain: Lots of noise, no real bite, only exist to sell toys to bed-wetters.

 

[Victorian Gray]

Every time you pinch a progressive Democrat an authoritarian national Socialist squeals like the pigs they are.

A truly ignorant statement.

 

[Azuma Hazuki]

Tajjy, darling, I'm an Independent. Zin is right, you're like a cartoon. You're not even an amusing or creative troll.

 

[Victorian Gray]

Tajjy, darling, I'm an Independent. Zin is right, you're like a cartoon. You're not even an amusing or creative troll.

Do they exist?