She was impressively composed, definitely has talent... But she lied repeatedly

[pstylesss]

Originally posted by: FuzzyBee

Originally posted by: Thump553

Huckabee's factual lie greatly surprised me, for it came seconds after an apparently heartfelt and classy discourse about race relations in America, and how we all should be proud that Obama made it to where is was not because of his race, but in indifference to it.

Technically speaking, Biden has received zero votes for Presdient, hasn't he? He's recevied bunches of votes for Democratic Nomination for President. Splitting hairs, I know, but while deceptive in a speech, Huckabee's statement isn't a lie.

I was in my car taking a quasi nap, what exactly are they saying Huckabee flat out lied about? Either it a) wasn't a lie; or b) I was sleeping.

Thanks!

 

[OrByte]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn

Originally posted by: OrByte
I couldn't believe the rhetoric that Palin was speaking last night about Obama's tax plan.

According to her speech last night everyone is going to get a tax increase under Obama's plan.

That was simply a lie. I am happy to hear that these lies are being noticed.

And it should not go ignored.

It's sad to see the GOP lying to America on such a big important stage.

If you increase the taxes on a business who will pay that increase??

thats not what she said.

She said Obama's tax plan will raise practically everyone's taxes

that is different. Maybe she had to dumb down her message to get it across. hmmmmm

 

[kage69]

Denigrating Obama's community service and activism was pretty ugly, the equivalent of denigrating McCain's captivity for political points.

What they're selling: Sarah Palin
What you're getting: Ann Coulter

LOL, OUCH.


And I agree, although with the caveat that I haven't seen or heard anyone denigrating McCain's service - just a whole lot of people wondering why his imprisonment qualifies him for office and why it negates criticism on other areas of his record.

For the record, I'd like to add that Palin is a much better human being than Ann Coulter - even if she is a lackluster evangelical opportunist with no business being anywhere near the White House. Prettier too. 😉

 

[ProfJohn]

Originally posted by: OrByte

Originally posted by: ProfJohn

Originally posted by: OrByte
I couldn't believe the rhetoric that Palin was speaking last night about Obama's tax plan.

According to her speech last night everyone is going to get a tax increase under Obama's plan.

That was simply a lie. I am happy to hear that these lies are being noticed.

And it should not go ignored.

It's sad to see the GOP lying to America on such a big important stage.

If you increase the taxes on a business who will pay that increase??

thats not what she said.

She said Obama's tax plan will raise practically everyone's taxes

that is different. Maybe she had to dumb down her message to get it across. hmmmmm

You are talking semantics.

 

[Atomic Playboy]

Originally posted by: lupi
Um, one side isn't sàying...

How did you accidentally type an accented "à"?

 

[Xavier434]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn

Originally posted by: OrByte
I couldn't believe the rhetoric that Palin was speaking last night about Obama's tax plan.

According to her speech last night everyone is going to get a tax increase under Obama's plan.

That was simply a lie. I am happy to hear that these lies are being noticed.

And it should not go ignored.

It's sad to see the GOP lying to America on such a big important stage.

If you increase the taxes on a business who will pay that increase??

If you decrease the taxes on a business, who do you think the majority of the money will benefit?

 

[pstylesss]

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: loki8481

Originally posted by: HomerJS
She put down community organizers in that smug sarcastic tone. Look up the history of COs and you will see some notables. One outstanding one Martin Luther King Jr.

Text

I think the community organizer line was a response to the Obama camp disparaging her service as a mayor... I mean, running a couple get out the vote drives in chicago is somehow more important than serving on a city council and being a mayor?

No, it's the same argument as always. Obama has never claimed to be deeply experienced. It is just ridiculous for a campaign who has nominated someone who has as little experience as Palin to attack him on it. It's like saying that I'm wealthier than you because I have a dime and you only have a nickel. In the end we're both poor.

He may not be running on experience... he is running on his "judgment", but they (Obama camp and other libs) are attacking Palin as not being very experienced as a person in the VP spot, and she is just being sure everyone sees how inexperienced the Ds presidential nominee is.

 

[pstylesss]

Originally posted by: OrByte

Originally posted by: ProfJohn

Originally posted by: OrByte
I couldn't believe the rhetoric that Palin was speaking last night about Obama's tax plan.

According to her speech last night everyone is going to get a tax increase under Obama's plan.

That was simply a lie. I am happy to hear that these lies are being noticed.

And it should not go ignored.

It's sad to see the GOP lying to America on such a big important stage.

If you increase the taxes on a business who will pay that increase??

thats not what she said.

She said Obama's tax plan will raise practically everyone's taxes

that is different. Maybe she had to dumb down her message to get it across. hmmmmm

She was specific about the taxes which would be raised, which will affect pretty much everyone.

 

[quest55720]

Originally posted by: Xavier434

Originally posted by: ProfJohn

Originally posted by: OrByte
I couldn't believe the rhetoric that Palin was speaking last night about Obama's tax plan.

According to her speech last night everyone is going to get a tax increase under Obama's plan.

That was simply a lie. I am happy to hear that these lies are being noticed.

And it should not go ignored.

It's sad to see the GOP lying to America on such a big important stage.

If you increase the taxes on a business who will pay that increase??

If you decrease the taxes on a business, who do you think the majority of the money will benefit?

Maybe they would invest in R&D,add new buildings or even hire new people. I know business is evil damn them for giving us jobs.

 

[eleison]

Originally posted by: evident
FACT CHECK - mccain lies about obama tax plan

But as i found out in another thread, all the right wingers in here think this factcheck website is librul and inaccurate... dunno

http://albanymediabias.blogspo...eckorg-turns-left.html

 

[jpeyton]

More fact checking uncovers lies in her speech (guess what Sarah, the media isn't backing off):

I thought Palin's speech was quite good: well-written, well delivered. And, as I said earlier, I think she's a genuinely engaging person, and comes across very well. There were just a couple of problems. One, which I have seen people notice, but which I suspect won't be a big deal for a lot of voters, is that it had very little substance. The other, which the commenters I saw on TV for some reason neglected to mention, was that she told a lot of lies. A few that stood out for me, or that I spotted in my quick run-through of some blogs:

Palin: "To the families of special-needs children all across this country, I have a message: For years, you sought to make America a more welcoming place for your sons and daughters. I pledge to you that if we are elected, you will have a friend and advocate in the White House."



Sarah Palin might have changed her mind on this one recently. However, a comment here notes that Palin actually slashed funding for schools for special needs kids by 62%. Budgets: FY 2007 (pre-Palin), 2008, 2009 (all pdfs).

Palin: "As for my running mate, you can be certain that wherever he goes, and whoever is listening, John McCain is the same man."



Steve's list of McCain flip-flops is here. See for yourself whether constancy is, in fact, John McCain's middle name.

Palin: "I told the Congress "thanks, but no thanks," for that Bridge to Nowhere. If our state wanted a bridge, we'd build it ourselves."



Just to reiterate what others have said: Congress' requirement that funds be spent on that bridge (aka the 'earmark') were removed before Sarah Palin became governor. She was therefore in no position to tell Congress anything about the bridge, one way or the other. During her campaign, she said she supported funding for the bridge. Brad Plumer, citing the Anchorage Dialy News via Nexis:

"5. Would you continue state funding for the proposed Knik Arm and Gravina Island bridges?

Yes. I would like to see Alaska's infrastructure projects built sooner rather than later. The window is now--while our congressional delegation is in a strong position to assist."



Later, she accepted the money -- now not restricted by an earmark -- and used it for other infrastructure projects. Here's her statement about why she wasn't building the bridge (also via Plumer.) Decide for yourselves what role a principled opposition to earmark funding plays in it. Hint: here's what residents of Ketchikan AK said when they heard her recent remarks:

"In the city Ketchikan, the planned site of the so-called "Bridge to Nowhere," political leaders of both parties said the claim was false and a betrayal of their community, because she had supported the bridge and the earmark for it secured by Alaska's Congressional delegation during her run for governor. (..)

"People are learning that she pandered to us by saying, I'm for this' ... and then when she found it was politically advantageous for her nationally, abruptly she starts using the very term that she said was insulting," Weinstein said."


Palin: "But listening to him speak, it's easy to forget that this is a man who has authored two memoirs but not a single major law or reform - not even in the state senate."



Ha, ha, ha. I gave a rundown of Obama's accomplishments in the Senate here. They include the Lugar-Obama bill on nonproliferation, and an ethics reform package that the Washington Post called "the strongest ethics legislation to emerge from Congress yet." Ruth Marcus summarizes his record on reform:

"He helped pass a far-reaching ethics and campaign finance bill in the Illinois state Senate and made the issue a priority on arriving in Washington. Much to the displeasure of his colleagues, Obama promoted an outside commission to handle Senate ethics complaints. He co-authored the lobbying reform bill awaiting President Bush's signature and pushed -- again to the dismay of some colleagues -- to include a provision requiring lawmakers to report the names of their lobbyist-bundlers. He has co-sponsored bills to overhaul the presidential public financing system and public financing of Senate campaigns."



Not a single major law or reform, indeed.

And I wasn't aware that writing memoirs was something to be ashamed of. Obama has, in fact, written only one. McCain (with Mark Salter) has written at least two.

Palin: "America needs more energy ... our opponent is against producing it."



No -- he plans to develop a lot more energy than John McCain does. It's just that a lot of it is renewable, not carbon-based. Moreover, Obama hasn't skipped the last eight votes on renewable energy.

Palin: "The Democratic nominee for president supports plans to raise income taxes ... raise payroll taxes ... raise investment income taxes ... raise the death tax ... raise business taxes ... and increase the tax burden on the American people by hundreds of billions of dollars. My sister Heather and her husband have just built a service station that's now opened for business - like millions of others who run small businesses. How are they going to be any better off if taxes go up?"



Well, it all depends whose taxes go up, doesn't it? If Heather and her husband make less than $250,000, their taxes will not go up. Most Americans will pay less in taxes under Obama's plan than under McCain's. So they might well be better off.

Those are just the falsehoods that leapt to mind. I'm sure there are others.

Whether or not Sarah Palin's engaging personality matters more than the fact that she tells lies depends a lot on the media, and whether they allow her to say that she opposed the Bridge to Nowhere, or that Obama has neer authored a major law or reform, without calling her on it. I hope they do. But I'm not holding my breath.

***

UPDATE: Mark Kleiman posts an Obama campaign rebuttal, which is more thorough than I was.

 

[OrByte]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn

Originally posted by: OrByte

Originally posted by: ProfJohn

Originally posted by: OrByte
I couldn't believe the rhetoric that Palin was speaking last night about Obama's tax plan.

According to her speech last night everyone is going to get a tax increase under Obama's plan.

That was simply a lie. I am happy to hear that these lies are being noticed.

And it should not go ignored.

It's sad to see the GOP lying to America on such a big important stage.

If you increase the taxes on a business who will pay that increase??

thats not what she said.

She said Obama's tax plan will raise practically everyone's taxes

that is different. Maybe she had to dumb down her message to get it across. hmmmmm

You are talking semantics.

HAHAHAHA no im sorry my friend. Its not semantics.

If I increase TAXES on you.. and you are a business owner...you might possibly increase your price of goods which increases the COSTS of GOODS to CONSUMERS.

She used fvcked up reasoning when she said that Obama would increase TAXES on practically everyone.

That is not semantics....she lied. Either that, or she figured her audience was too stupid to know the difference between a TAX increase and an increase in COST of goods.


Edit: after rereading her statements directly she seemed to wiggle out of the lie with the following:

and increase the tax burden on the American people by hundreds of billions of dollars

By saying tax BURDEN I think she can argue that she was infact talking about an increase in taxes that would trickle down to consumers in the form of an increase in COST of goods.

bravo to Palin, she gets to say that Obama will raise everyone's taxes BURDEN. :disgust:

 

[yuppiejr]

Originally posted by: OrByte

Originally posted by: ProfJohn

Originally posted by: OrByte
I couldn't believe the rhetoric that Palin was speaking last night about Obama's tax plan.

According to her speech last night everyone is going to get a tax increase under Obama's plan.

That was simply a lie. I am happy to hear that these lies are being noticed.

And it should not go ignored.

It's sad to see the GOP lying to America on such a big important stage.

If you increase the taxes on a business who will pay that increase??

thats not what she said.

She said Obama's tax plan will raise practically everyone's taxes

that is different. Maybe she had to dumb down her message to get it across. hmmmmm

..Or she was trying to get through to thick-skulled leftists who don't understand that EVERY tax paid by American businesses, which Obama is ready to tax tax tax, are ultimately passed on via the price of goods and services consumed by the American public. Tax the oil companies more, price of gas will go up to compensate which comes out of every individual's pocket, etc...

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: yuppiejr

Originally posted by: OrByte

Originally posted by: ProfJohn

Originally posted by: OrByte
I couldn't believe the rhetoric that Palin was speaking last night about Obama's tax plan.

According to her speech last night everyone is going to get a tax increase under Obama's plan.

That was simply a lie. I am happy to hear that these lies are being noticed.

And it should not go ignored.

It's sad to see the GOP lying to America on such a big important stage.

If you increase the taxes on a business who will pay that increase??

thats not what she said.

She said Obama's tax plan will raise practically everyone's taxes

that is different. Maybe she had to dumb down her message to get it across. hmmmmm

..Or she was trying to get through to thick-skulled leftists who don't understand that EVERY tax paid by American businesses, which Obama is ready to tax tax tax, are ultimately passed on via the price of goods and services consumed by the American public. Tax the oil companies more, price of gas will go up to compensate which comes out of every individual's pocket, etc...

Good

Let them raise prices.

The non-rich will find better ways of feeding themselves and getting around.

 

[jonks]

Originally posted by: eleison

Originally posted by: evident
FACT CHECK - mccain lies about obama tax plan

But as i found out in another thread, all the right wingers in here think this factcheck website is librul and inaccurate... dunno

http://albanymediabias.blogspo...eckorg-turns-left.html

When you're losing, attack the messenger. I notice the only people who think factcheck biased are on the far right.

Snopes and Factcheck are based ENTIRELY on their ability to present evidence without apparent bias. If they allowed even the appearance of impropriety they would cease to exist at all.

Calling out verifiably independent sites for bias is the surest sign yet of republican desperation.

 

[Whoozyerdaddy]

Originally posted by: HomerJS
She put down community organizers in that smug sarcastic tone. Look up the history of COs and you will see some notables. One outstanding one Martin Luther King Jr.

Text

I think we can all agree that BHO is no MLK. Not even close.

 

[OrByte]

Originally posted by: yuppiejr

Originally posted by: OrByte

Originally posted by: ProfJohn

Originally posted by: OrByte
I couldn't believe the rhetoric that Palin was speaking last night about Obama's tax plan.

According to her speech last night everyone is going to get a tax increase under Obama's plan.

That was simply a lie. I am happy to hear that these lies are being noticed.

And it should not go ignored.

It's sad to see the GOP lying to America on such a big important stage.

If you increase the taxes on a business who will pay that increase??

thats not what she said.

She said Obama's tax plan will raise practically everyone's taxes

that is different. Maybe she had to dumb down her message to get it across. hmmmmm

..Or she was trying to get through to thick-skulled leftists who don't understand that EVERY tax paid by American businesses, which Obama is ready to tax tax tax, are ultimately passed on via the price of goods and services consumed by the American public. Tax the oil companies more, price of gas will go up to compensate which comes out of every individual's pocket, etc...

I tell you what I understand.

Corps have been getting a great tax cut under GWB. Prices of goods today are more expensive for you and I are they not?

Jobs are being lost at a higher rate- are they not?

Someone earlier mentioned R&D..yeah...that is meaningless to my pocket, in this economy.

CEOs are getting the greatest and best golden parachutes under GWBs and McCains tax plan..are they not?

Are you going to sit here and tell us that GWBs and McCains "Ownership Society" is helping MY individual pocket? sorry I don't buy it, or actually I CAN'T AFFORD TO BUY IT. Then again im just thick-skulled.

 

[sactoking]

Originally posted by: OrByte

bravo to Palin, she gets to say that Obama will raise everyone's taxes BURDEN. :disgust:

If there's no functional equivalent between raising taxes directly and indirectly, why be disgusted?

Or better yet, maybe the American people should be MORE disgusted that Obama plans to raise their tax burden and not their taxes! Why? In the end, whether you charge me $5 in taxes or you charge AM/PM $5 to sell a Big Gulp, that $5 gets passed to SOMEONE. When you do it indirectly, all you do is increase inefficiency. Collecting $5 in taxes will cost the economy less that collecting $5 from AM/PM and having AM/PM collect it from me.

Don't tell us that raising tax burden is some sort of lie or 'out' using semantics. IT IS WORSE THAN DIRECTLY TAXING US!

 

[Xavier434]

Originally posted by: quest55720

Originally posted by: Xavier434

Originally posted by: ProfJohn

Originally posted by: OrByte
I couldn't believe the rhetoric that Palin was speaking last night about Obama's tax plan.

According to her speech last night everyone is going to get a tax increase under Obama's plan.

That was simply a lie. I am happy to hear that these lies are being noticed.

And it should not go ignored.

It's sad to see the GOP lying to America on such a big important stage.

If you increase the taxes on a business who will pay that increase??

If you decrease the taxes on a business, who do you think the majority of the money will benefit?

Maybe they would invest in R&D,add new buildings or even hire new people. I know business is evil damn them for giving us jobs.

I agree. Maybe they would also be giving themselves huge bonuses and pay increases at the end of the year. Maybe they would be less strict about spending money on crap such as expensive business trips whose purpose could easily be fulfilled via video conference or even a few phone calls. Never underestimate the power of greed and self gain that exists within the minds of big business execs. They are not looking out for you. They are looking out for themselves. Not all of their methods of self gain trickle down to their employees at a reasonable amount and I can guarantee you that it is not amongst their top priorities either.

The point is that there are pros and cons to both sides of reasoning and the real answer is more balance. Right now, it is not balanced. The middle class and below are getting raped too much and they are not seeing enough of the kinds of benefits that they should be seeing from big business who is currently getting lots of tax breaks. The government is not getting smaller though now is it? They are getting their money from somewhere to replace that which was lost from the breaks and it is being sucked out from the middle class and below as well as being borrowed left and right. I don't want to tax businesses far too much because that doesn't help me either, but right now we need some adjustments to help balance the equation.

Wanting either more tax breaks for business or keeping it the same right now is typical thinking from someone who wants everything, but they don't want to pay for it. That's very typical Republican thinking and I can't say that the Dems are that much better all of the time, but given the current problems that I believe are most important and the people willing to try and solve them I think the Dems are better for the job.

 

[quest55720]

Originally posted by: OrByte

Originally posted by: yuppiejr

Originally posted by: OrByte

Originally posted by: ProfJohn

Originally posted by: OrByte
I couldn't believe the rhetoric that Palin was speaking last night about Obama's tax plan.

According to her speech last night everyone is going to get a tax increase under Obama's plan.

That was simply a lie. I am happy to hear that these lies are being noticed.

And it should not go ignored.

It's sad to see the GOP lying to America on such a big important stage.

If you increase the taxes on a business who will pay that increase??

thats not what she said.

She said Obama's tax plan will raise practically everyone's taxes

that is different. Maybe she had to dumb down her message to get it across. hmmmmm

..Or she was trying to get through to thick-skulled leftists who don't understand that EVERY tax paid by American businesses, which Obama is ready to tax tax tax, are ultimately passed on via the price of goods and services consumed by the American public. Tax the oil companies more, price of gas will go up to compensate which comes out of every individual's pocket, etc...

I tell you what I understand.

Corps have been getting a great tax cut under GWB. Prices of goods today are more expensive for you and I are they not?

Jobs are being lost at a higher rate- are they not?

Someone earlier mentioned R&D..yeah...that is meaningless to my pocket, in this economy.

CEOs are getting the greatest and best golden parachutes under GWBs and McCains tax plan..are they not?

Are you going to sit here and tell us that GWBs and McCains "Ownership Society" is helping MY individual pocket? sorry I don't buy it, or actually I CAN'T AFFORD TO BUY IT. Then again im just thick-skulled.

Prices are up thanks to high fuel prices. What are the democrats doing about fuel prices again? Putting their heads in the sand ignoring the problem and going on vacation. Fix the fuel price problem and you lower prices. The democrats had all summer to get a complete energy plan passed. Maybe if Obama would of shown some leadership one would of been passed. Instead he hides behind pelosi and his party.

 

[evident]

Originally posted by: jonks

Originally posted by: eleison

Originally posted by: evident
FACT CHECK - mccain lies about obama tax plan

But as i found out in another thread, all the right wingers in here think this factcheck website is librul and inaccurate... dunno

http://albanymediabias.blogspo...eckorg-turns-left.html

When you're losing, attack the messenger. I notice the only people who think factcheck biased are on the far right.

Snopes and Factcheck are based ENTIRELY on their ability to present evidence without apparent bias. If they allowed even the appearance of impropriety they would cease to exist at all.

Calling out verifiably independent sites for bias is the surest sign yet of republican desperation.

they are calling out EVERY mccain ad as misleading and lying. that is pretty bad

 

[JD50]

Originally posted by: jonks
<snip>

First your user name, now your avatar, WTF??!?!

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: yuppiejr

Originally posted by: OrByte

Originally posted by: ProfJohn

Originally posted by: OrByte
I couldn't believe the rhetoric that Palin was speaking last night about Obama's tax plan.

According to her speech last night everyone is going to get a tax increase under Obama's plan.

That was simply a lie. I am happy to hear that these lies are being noticed.

And it should not go ignored.

It's sad to see the GOP lying to America on such a big important stage.

If you increase the taxes on a business who will pay that increase??

thats not what she said.

She said Obama's tax plan will raise practically everyone's taxes

that is different. Maybe she had to dumb down her message to get it across. hmmmmm

..Or she was trying to get through to thick-skulled leftists who don't understand that EVERY tax paid by American businesses, which Obama is ready to tax tax tax, are ultimately passed on via the price of goods and services consumed by the American public. Tax the oil companies more, price of gas will go up to compensate which comes out of every individual's pocket, etc...

I am so tired of hearing this ridiculous crap. By your logic we should never tax a business a single dime ever, as we're all just paying for it anyway. This has been proven to be flatly false. Corporations adjust their selling prices based on a lot of factors, taxes being only one. Every tax applied to them is not passed on as a lot of it has to do with the competitive factors at play.

This should be obvious.

 

[MagicConch]

If we talk about passed on costs as virtual taxes than it never ends. The devaluation of the dollar can be considered a tax, the increase in cost of gas, increase in the cost of corn as a result of the energy costs, etc. It is in the Republican's best interest to get all the facts straight re: the tax plan or the left will take precisely this approach of trickle-down costs and it will damage McCain tremendously.

 

[Perknose]

Originally posted by: LegendKiller
I was a bit confused last night. I couldn't reconcile the fact that that was called the "Republican National Convention", with all of those blowhards speaking of "small government" and "fiscal responsibility", "protection of rights", "no big brother", "lower taxes" when, under "Republicans", none of these things are true.

- National debt increased 80% under "Republicans"

- Government grew massively under "Republicans"

- NYC sends "intelligence officers" and has one of the largest foreign intelligence gathering operations outside of the CIA and NSA, under a "Republican"

- Under "Republicans" we had the largest expansion of government monitoring

- Under "Republicans" we had the largest elimination of rights

- Under Palin, a "Republican" a city was left with over $22MM in debt when it had none when she started.

- Under Palin, a "Republican" and a fiscally conservative "reformer mavrick", she gathered more earmarks than anybody else

- Under Palin, a "Republican", she loved the bridge to nowhere until nobody else did

But KEPT AND SPENT all those millions of dollars of our tax money earmarked for it anyway!