She Came to America to Learn

[glenn1]

The key word being "infringe", as in people who have guns are more likely to infringe on the rights of others. Aka, the reason we have most laws. Laws aren't created because everyone is doing a particular thing that infringes on everyone's rights, they are created because some people/entities are infringing on some peoples rights.

I find it odd how guns simply don't follow protocol or standard like every other issue this country has ever had.

Guns are already highly controlled with many, many laws on the books related to their sale, manufacture, and use. The actual risk any given person faces due to mass shootings (rather than the perceived risk) would still barely make for a rounding error in "causes of death" tables. This is going to be one of those things where your side needs to learn to get over your fear of the "scary" people you think are waiting everywhere to hurt you. Just like conservatives needed to get over their fear that every transsexual was going to try to molest them in a bathroom the pro gun-control side is going to need to get over their terror that everyone with an AR rifle variant is a Timothy McVeigh in waiting.

 

[ivwshane]

Guns are already highly controlled with many, many laws on the books related to their sale, manufacture, and use. The actual risk any given person faces due to mass shootings (rather than the perceived risk) would still barely make for a rounding error in "causes of death" tables. This is going to be one of those things where your side needs to learn to get over your fear of the "scary" people you think are waiting everywhere to hurt you. Just like conservatives needed to get over their fear that every transsexual was going to try to molest them in a bathroom the pro gun-control side is going to need to get over their terror that everyone with an AR rifle variant is a Timothy McVeigh in waiting.

Lol, I'm not scared of guns or gun owners, they tend to be pussies. Its an insecurity thing.

That being said, I don't have an issue with guns but I do have an issue with kids being killed in what's supposed to be a safe environment where their primary purpose is supposed to be learning.

So maybe you can tell kids they need to grow some balls and not be scared of guns. I'm sure your tough guy attitude and your ability to not give a shit about their safety will gob over real will.

I love the argument though; guns are already regulated so we shouldn't regulate them more! Fucking brilliant! /s

 

[soulcougher73]

Actually we work under the presumption that you're free to exercise your rights until they actually (and not theoretically) infringe on another's so your quoted formulation with bolded bits about individual responsibility is 100% accurate. You're not made the slightest bit safer or more "living in society" by restricting the rights of the law abiding to guns than you are to restricting speech for everyone to prevent a few dozen neo-Nazis from saying something bad about Jews. I have no personally use or desire for neo-Nazis or AK-47s but think we're a better and freer society because we have a nation that allows damn near anything including what I don't like or want myself. I'll take the risk of a "dangerous" society filled with large sodas, Happy Meals in plastic non-biodegradeable bags, assault rifles, same-sex marriage, transsexuals in bathrooms, GMO foods, neo-nazis and Klansmen and every other possible "risk" you can think of over the "safe" and antiseptic world you would create where our freedoms were limited to the handful of things that didn't scare you.

Does my right to not be shot outweigh your right to own a gun that can shoot me? Hmmmm.I mean we all know you’re a responsible gun owner just like all the rest of the people who let their kids have accesss to guns ext. and eventually did a criminal act.

 

[NostaSeronx]

Does my right to not be shot outweigh your right to own a gun that can shoot me?

You don't have a right to not be shot, you have a freedom to be not shot.

The right to own and bear guns supersedes your freedom to be not shot.

 

[UglyCasanova]

Does my right to not be shot outweigh your right to own a gun that can shoot me?

You say that like it’s a mutually exclusive thing

 

[ivwshane]

You don't have a right to not be shot, you have a freedom to be not shot.

The right to own and bear guns supersedes your freedom to be not shot.

Lol, I dare you to test that.

 

[NostaSeronx]

Lol, I dare you to test that.

I test it everyday, some kids will say.

 

[soulcougher73]

You don't have a right to not be shot, you have a freedom to be not shot.

The right to own and bear guns supersedes your freedom to be not shot.

“We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness”

So I have a right to life and you have a right to a gun. Going off what Glenn was saying about rights, until they infringe upon another’s rights is what I was trying to get at, poorly. Lol

Maybe this needs to be our new angle to ban gun owners rights since you are infringing upon everyone’s right to life

 

[glenn1]

Does my right to not be shot outweigh your right to own a gun that can shoot me? Hmmmm.I mean we all know you’re a responsible gun owner just like all the rest of the people who let their kids have accesss to guns ext. and eventually did a criminal act.

The government will fully prosecute me for failing to honor your right not to be shot should it come to that. We don't pre-emptively take away others rights in the actual in order to protect your rights in theory unless there's a clear and present danger of that theory becoming reality. It's kinda the same principle that your rights to life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness can't be abridged by cutting off your dick to protect the right of women not to be raped by you.

 

[Blackjack200]

“We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness”

So I have a right to life and you have a right to a gun. Going off what Glenn was saying about rights, until they infringe upon another’s rights is what I was trying to get at, poorly. Lol

Maybe this needs to be our new angle to ban gun owners rights since you are infringing upon everyone’s right to life

You don't need any kind of an angle at all, all you need to do is to want to live in a different kind of society, and if enough people want that and fight for it, we'll get it. Forget about trying to convince zealots. They don't matter.

 

[MrSquished]

The government will fully prosecute me for failing to honor your right not to be shot should it come to that. We don't pre-emptively take away others rights in the actual in order to protect your rights in theory unless there's a clear and present danger of that theory becoming reality. It's kinda the same principle that your rights to life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness can't be abridged by cutting off your dick to protect the right of women not to be raped by you.

It's a little late for my pursuit of happiness after I'm shot dead or maimed. What then? Plus what if I just want to ship my kids off to school and it makes me happy knowing there is far less of a chance of them coming home with a bullet wound or worse. I'm not a parent but I bet a lot of parents want to pursue that happiness.

Comparing a gun to a dick is kind of analogous, since I think a lot of these male shooters are using their guns as kind of an extension of their dicks. And I dare say a lot of law abiding gun owners are also using their guns as extensions of their dicks, or lack thereof. But I digress.

You are born with a dick in your hand, but not a gun. Big fucking difference.

 

[glenn1]

It's a little late for my pursuit of happiness after I'm shot dead or maimed. What then? Plus what if I just want to ship my kids off to school and it makes me happy knowing there is far less of a chance of them coming home with a bullet wound or worse. I'm not a parent but I bet a lot of parents want to pursue that happiness.

Comparing a gun to a dick is kind of analogous, since I think a lot of these male shooters are using their guns as kind of an extension of their dicks. And I dare say a lot of law abiding gun owners are also using their guns as extensions of their dicks, or lack thereof. But I digress.

You are born with a dick in your hand, but not a gun. Big fucking difference.

Yeah, well that's really what this argument always comes down to isn't it? Guns aren't something you personally value so you don't allow anyone else to assign a non-zero value to them either. The only personal outcome you see resulting from guns is a bad one for you, thus you think it must be thus for everyone anywhere. Your right to "just want to ship my kids off to school" completely supercedes any rights other people have to using firearms for hunting, protection from wildlife, sport, or any other reason. Must be nice to have a universe where the sum of your cares about rights starts and ends with you.

 

[Blackjack200]

Yeah, well that's really what this argument always comes down to isn't it? Guns aren't something you personally value so you don't allow anyone else to assign a non-zero value to them either. The only personal outcome you see resulting from guns is a bad one for you, thus you think it must be thus for everyone anywhere. Your right to "just want to ship my kids off to school" completely supercedes any rights other people have to using firearms for hunting, protection from wildlife, sport, or any other reason. Must be nice to have a universe where the sum of your cares about rights starts and ends with you.

You don't matter.

 

[MrSquished]

Yeah, well that's really what this argument always comes down to isn't it? Guns aren't something you personally value so you don't allow anyone else to assign a non-zero value to them either. The only personal outcome you see resulting from guns is a bad one for you, thus you think it must be thus for everyone anywhere. Your right to "just want to ship my kids off to school" completely supercedes any rights other people have to using firearms for hunting, protection from wildlife, sport, or any other reason. Must be nice to have a universe where the sum of your cares about rights starts and ends with you.

To the contrary I personally value guns immensely. This isn't some hippie dippie world we are living in - a strong military does and can keep my country safe and its freedoms strong. We can save the discussion of how much military and actions that should entail for a totally different thread. But there is a very strong value to me in our military having all kinds of guns and weapons beyond. On a day to day basis I value a highly trained law enforcement contingent with guns equipped protecting my rights on the local level. I see a good outcome, personally, from guns every single day I step outside my door actually. I probably misused one of those commas there but so be it.

If I lived in a less populated rural area I'd be owning a gun for sure - where I would be farther from the protection of such law enforcement infrastructure. However it is too difficult to manage a system where you could only own a gun if you lived in a certain area for a certain period of time or something along those lines. So I see value in owning a gun in general, just with restrictions, which is what this is all about. As far as sport - I doubt I would hunt for sport no matter where I lived, but I believe in the right for others to do so.

 

[Ns1]

We need martyrs for the cause. I thank thee, foreigner, for your sacrifice and have sent the NRA $20 in your honor.

 

[compuwiz1]

And was slaughtered as one of the many young victims of our country's inability to control our pussy-assed and disgusting lust for guns.

Shame on all you fear-based little shits and the cynical commerce in death that the NRA promotes.

Come on Perk! Why ya gotta be like that? You are broad stroking all gun owners. If I were to come in here and broad stroke, as an example, all Muslims, or people of certain ethnicity, because of the actions of a few, you would lose your shit! Shaming the whole lot of reasonable, responsible gun owners is a bad look. I know you're brighter than this.

 

[SNC]

Answer the fucking question you little bitch!

Little bitch, how cute. If you could learn to fucking read ya' cock sucker! I answered it, NOHING was changed.

 

[SNC]

I guarantee you the guy is a baby boomer. The only thing they know is "me", team work is a foreign concept to them. Its a fyigm attitude.

Nope, you seam to run your mouth before the brain is engaged. If I'd have to guess I would say you still live at home and mom still makes your bed, right? My stats are not that hard to find, if you have a hard time just ask I'll answer.

 

[SNC]

This is not about you.
Some things require a collaborative effort.
You know: doing things together.
That's a concept that's lost in America. The only thing that counts in American society and American culture is: "ME!".

I live in a country were nobody has a gun. Only policemen have guns (and the military). And the policemen don't even always wear their guns. And they hardly use them. Does that mean we have no guns at all in society ? Nope, of course not. Hardcore organized crime has guns. But your average thug in the streets does not. Illegal guns are expensive. And kids can't bring their dad's gun to school when they are pissed off. And because there are hardly any guns in my country, nobody is actually afraid of guns. Our policemen never shoot people because they are scared. We don't have people shooting at other people just for ringing their doorbell. I live in an civilized country. And everyone in my country understands that you can't live peacefully when you have a shitload of guns around.

It's a really simple concept.

It's a simple concept only if you conflate all of the law abiding gun owners with the fucks that dont know how to own a firearm.

 

[SNC]

This country was founded on individual liberty and freedom. If you had taken any history classes, you would know that concept long predates "baby boomers".

I'm thinking he might be of limited abilities, or possibly still in k-12, so its possible he hasn't gotten to that point yet.

 

[SNC]

Bottom line. Americans completely reject the idea that they live in a society. "If I'm not shooting anyone with my gun, how can I possibly have any individual responsibility here?"

There won't be any progress on this issue or any other until Americans can accept that they are responsible to the communities they live in.

Edit: Exhibit A

So are you of the same mind with every issue that affects the general public or just gun ownership?
I would be interested in contrasting your take on inner city violence, black on black crimes, radical religious groups of ALL kinds not just those that are politically OK to criticize, political corruption (even from your team), grug usage. If this is a team effort and you are wanting law abiding folks to turn over a perfectly safe and legal item for the betterment of society, what would you have those DIRECTLY responsible for the aforementioned things do? How many times have you criticized the single mother for letting her sons get involved in gang and drug usage? I'm gonna say never, and go a step further and say you tend to blame the rest of society for her lack of attention to her kids. When and if you can get the guns out of the hands of every fucking drug dealer, mugger, low life gang member and every other fuckwad with bad intentions, I will GLADLY turn mine in. Now all YOU need to do is to get out there and make sure that happens. I would but there are laws about that sort of thing and they say I am not permitted to. You seem perfectly OK handling this on your own, so just let me know when grab the last one and I'll hand you all of mine.

 

[SNC]

and if all else fails, lead with the personal insults.

He really has nothing else. He's dug in so far he really thinks that personal insults are his best option. Sad really.

 

[SNC]

Does my right to not be shot outweigh your right to own a gun that can shoot me? Hmmmm.I mean we all know you’re a responsible gun owner just like all the rest of the people who let their kids have accesss to guns ext. and eventually did a criminal act.

Yes you do. It's the exact same right as the imaginary one that states that you have the right not to be run over in a crowd and should be applied equally.

 

[Paratus]

 

[Blackjack200]

To the contrary I personally value guns immensely. This isn't some hippie dippie world we are living in - a strong military does and can keep my country safe and its freedoms strong.

Edit: removed.