Shaq Traded to Phoenix

[Corporate Thug]

Originally posted by: Syringer
First C-Webb goes back to the west, now Shaq, who's next..Akeem Olajuwon?

David Robinson just signed with the Spurs...

 

[akshatp]

The trade represents a dramatic change for the Suns, whose run-and-gun, small-ball style had revolutionized the league in recent seasons.

Say bye bye to the run-n-gun Suns fans.. Shaq is nothing more than a big obstacle in the paint, he will provide zero value on the other side of the ball.

 

[BrownTown]

Maybe if Phoenix wasn't so d@mn cheap they would actually spend the money to keep their best players, but instead they make all kinds of shitty trades on purpose just to save money, its kind of pathetic really, if I were one of their players or fans I would get pissed off about the fact that they are more concerned with making money then winning a championship. They are pretty good right now, but realistically speaking they have no where to go but down considering the fact they sell all their good players and draft picks for money, and pretty soon their old guys will be way past their prime and there won't be any replacements.

 

[trmiv]

What a horrid trade for the Suns. As a die-hard Laker fan, it's fine with me though. It makes the Suns worse, and doesn't help with matching up with the Lakers huge front line of Bynum, Gasol and Odom. Shaq is too old, injured, and out of shape to stay on the floor long enough to have the impact they want. Plus, he is a big crimp in their style of basketball. Yes the game slows down in the post season and is more halfcourt, but Shaq isn't the answer for that. Also I think this trade will hurt Stoudamire's game a lot with Shaq clogging the paint. Talk about a knee jerk reaction. LOL

 

[Patt]

I see it this way ... should the Suns accept Shaq's increasingly fragile body ... he'll only have to run the floor half the time anyway. When Phoenix is fast breaking, he'll be the rebounder/inbounder, and won't be getting himself past halfcourt when they're really running anyway. Add to the fact that the best 'bigs' defenders won't necessarily be able to stick on Amare anymore, and Shaq could pound smaller people in the halfcourt (once he gets there).

Interesting trade ... short term value vs. long term prospects ... but you know Marion was going piss and whine about not being the man anyway. Of course, Phoenix will be the new Miami Heat in a couple of years when Shaq retires, Nash is 36, and someone has lured Barbosa away with large money.

 

[trmiv]

Apparently Phoenix wants Shaq to stick to rebounding and defending. Aside from being an imposing figure, Shaq has never been a good defender. He doesn't particularly like doing it, and Shaq has said he will not be a token center. Also, Shaq is horrible at defending the pick-and-roll because he NEVER shows. The Suns will get PNR'd to death with Shaq in the lineup. They will get a taste of their own medicine on a nightly basis. Yes he will be better at defending post-players, but I think their overall defense will suffer. Right now he's complaining about "touches" in Miami, so he still clearly sees himself as an offensive threat that needs shots, how is he going to accept being asked to just rebound the ball and play defense? I don't see how it will work. Another thing is, Shaq represents a stark change in offensively philosophy for the Suns. Their offense has been built on scoring in 10 seconds or less, steals, quick outlet passes off rebounds, run run run. Now they will need to become more of a half-court team for Shaq to succeed in their offense. From what I've read D'Antoni doesn't sound particularly enthusiastic about the trade, how is it going to work if your coach isn't buying into it, and has to change his offense to boot?

 

[ElFenix]

why the hell would phoenix do this?

 

[wkabel23]

I don't think kerr made this trade because the lakers got pau. It's more a reaction to our loss against the spurs a week ago when they didn't have tony parker. I'm going to miss Marion, but I don't think he'll put up the same numbers without Nash...although Wade is a capable passer. I'm pissed about the deal, but eventually I'll try to look on the bright side. The fact that I've never been a fan of Shaq makes it worse, but I'm confident Nash and Co. will make the Suns work again.

 

[antyler]

he is old. He will be old no matter where he goes. And I dont think that he will play much better with Phoenix than he is in Miami. If they just want a large person to fill up space in the middle of the key, Phoenix cant go wrong. But trading Shawn Marion? hm. dunno about that.

 

[IAteYourMother]

Took me some thinking and reading, but I can definitely understand why Phoenix does this trade. They're only 14-12 or soemthing like that against the West, and with the Lakers/Hornets/Spurs as likely favorites, with the Mavs possibly getting Jermaine O'Neal, the Suns look to possibly be the odd man out. Without changing the lineup, it's pretty certain that the Suns are doomed to lose, and for this organization, it's about winning it all, not "can we make it past the first round." You don't need all 5 players to run the floor to play a run and gun offense, and diaw is capable of filling in for Marion. Ideally, this would increase Amare's production at the 4 and Shaq's giant body and skill would give them more options in a half-court offense. With Nash at the point, Shaq will become much more potent than in Miami with Jason Williams. Plus, Shaq has much more motivation playing for a top team in the West and playoff bound. The one real downer to this deal for Phoenix is the slight loss in defense (i say slight because Amare is a horrible 5 on defense and Shaq's big body will be more effective in guarding the paint) and the ridiculously proneness to injury of Shaq. I can't believe they can't get someone other than Shaq for Marion/Banks, but whatever.

 

[XMan]

Originally posted by: trmiv
Apparently Phoenix wants Shaq to stick to rebounding and defending. Aside from being an imposing figure, Shaq has never been a good defender. He doesn't particularly like doing it, and Shaq has said he will not be a token center. Also, Shaq is horrible at defending the pick-and-roll because he NEVER shows. The Suns will get PNR'd to death with Shaq in the lineup. They will get a taste of their own medicine on a nightly basis. Yes he will be better at defending post-players, but I think their overall defense will suffer. Right now he's complaining about "touches" in Miami, so he still clearly sees himself as an offensive threat that needs shots, how is he going to accept being asked to just rebound the ball and play defense? I don't see how it will work. Another thing is, Shaq represents a stark change in offensively philosophy for the Suns. Their offense has been built on scoring in 10 seconds or less, steals, quick outlet passes off rebounds, run run run. Now they will need to become more of a half-court team for Shaq to succeed in their offense. From what I've read D'Antoni doesn't sound particularly enthusiastic about the trade, how is it going to work if your coach isn't buying into it, and has to change his offense to boot?

PNRs . . . sounds good, but Shaq has never had a weak-side defender who can block shots as well as Amare behind him. Ho Grant? Meh. I can see it now . . . Parker and Duncan PNR around Shaq . . . Parker to the hoop . . . REJECTED by Stoudemire.

Offensive philosopy . . . I disagree, the Suns very rarely fast break with all five players. Shaq can trail. And when the game slows down he can move into the low block. Amare is effective enough from the elbow that he doesn't need the post. And who do you double team? Shaq? Amare? Double team Shaq, he kicks it to Amare, who is stronger than most fours and faster than most fives. I think Amare's scoring will go up significantly with Shaq in the lineup.

And, don't forget the Nash factor. Shaq has never played with a point guard of Nash's caliber. (Wade and Penny aren't true points, IMO). Steve will get him a consistent diet of easy buckets. Same with Hill and Diaw.

 

[XMan]

Originally posted by: Patt
I see it this way ... should the Suns accept Shaq's increasingly fragile body ... he'll only have to run the floor half the time anyway. When Phoenix is fast breaking, he'll be the rebounder/inbounder, and won't be getting himself past halfcourt when they're really running anyway. Add to the fact that the best 'bigs' defenders won't necessarily be able to stick on Amare anymore, and Shaq could pound smaller people in the halfcourt (once he gets there).

Interesting trade ... short term value vs. long term prospects ... but you know Marion was going piss and whine about not being the man anyway. Of course, Phoenix will be the new Miami Heat in a couple of years when Shaq retires, Nash is 36, and someone has lured Barbosa away with large money.

He's under contract until 2012.

 

[trmiv]

Originally posted by: XMan

Originally posted by: trmiv
Apparently Phoenix wants Shaq to stick to rebounding and defending. Aside from being an imposing figure, Shaq has never been a good defender. He doesn't particularly like doing it, and Shaq has said he will not be a token center. Also, Shaq is horrible at defending the pick-and-roll because he NEVER shows. The Suns will get PNR'd to death with Shaq in the lineup. They will get a taste of their own medicine on a nightly basis. Yes he will be better at defending post-players, but I think their overall defense will suffer. Right now he's complaining about "touches" in Miami, so he still clearly sees himself as an offensive threat that needs shots, how is he going to accept being asked to just rebound the ball and play defense? I don't see how it will work. Another thing is, Shaq represents a stark change in offensively philosophy for the Suns. Their offense has been built on scoring in 10 seconds or less, steals, quick outlet passes off rebounds, run run run. Now they will need to become more of a half-court team for Shaq to succeed in their offense. From what I've read D'Antoni doesn't sound particularly enthusiastic about the trade, how is it going to work if your coach isn't buying into it, and has to change his offense to boot?

PNRs . . . sounds good, but Shaq has never had a weak-side defender who can block shots as well as Amare behind him. Ho Grant? Meh. I can see it now . . . Parker and Duncan PNR around Shaq . . . Parker to the hoop . . . REJECTED by Stoudemire.

Offensive philosopy . . . I disagree, the Suns very rarely fast break with all five players. Shaq can trail. And when the game slows down he can move into the low block. Amare is effective enough from the elbow that he doesn't need the post. And who do you double team? Shaq? Amare? Double team Shaq, he kicks it to Amare, who is stronger than most fours and faster than most fives. I think Amare's scoring will go up significantly with Shaq in the lineup.

And, don't forget the Nash factor. Shaq has never played with a point guard of Nash's caliber. (Wade and Penny aren't true points, IMO). Steve will get him a consistent diet of easy buckets. Same with Hill and Diaw.

As successful as the Lakers were with Shaq, his reluctance to play the PNR hurt them on many occasions, especially later in his time with the Lakers. Most notably during the Pistons/Lakers series. Exactly how many shots do you expect Amare to block a game? Amare is an decent weakside shot blocker, but he's not that good. And honestly weakside shot blocking only gets you so far. Denver has the best weakside shot blocker in the game in Camby, yet they are arguably the worst defensive team in the league.

Phoenix is already a poor defensive team, and this trade makes them worse, not better defensively.

The point on offensive philosophy is, D'Antoni has coached this team as a fast breaking quick hitting team for years, and now they will need to learn to slow the game up for Shaq. This doesn't happen overnight when you've run a team a certain way for years. They will have a very short period of time to integrate Shaq and a very limited window of success with him. I don't think it happens this year, and then what happens next season when he is yet another year older, slower, and even more out of shape?

Also, Shaq is an excellent post passer, one of the best in the game, but he needs the ball to operate. Shaq's most effective work comes in setting up in the post, and either scoring or hitting cutters, but he needs the ball to do so. How is that going to work when Nash also needs the ball to be effective? One reason Shaq has been so successful with Penny, then Kobe, then Wade is because having a dominant two guard like those guys (Wade and Penny have been considered ones, but they were twos) free's Shaq up to operate in the post without requiring them to have the ball in their hands.

BTW, XMan, make sure to pickup your new Shaq replica uniform while they are hot.

 

[IAteYourMother]

Originally posted by: trmiv

Originally posted by: XMan

Originally posted by: trmiv
Apparently Phoenix wants Shaq to stick to rebounding and defending. Aside from being an imposing figure, Shaq has never been a good defender. He doesn't particularly like doing it, and Shaq has said he will not be a token center. Also, Shaq is horrible at defending the pick-and-roll because he NEVER shows. The Suns will get PNR'd to death with Shaq in the lineup. They will get a taste of their own medicine on a nightly basis. Yes he will be better at defending post-players, but I think their overall defense will suffer. Right now he's complaining about "touches" in Miami, so he still clearly sees himself as an offensive threat that needs shots, how is he going to accept being asked to just rebound the ball and play defense? I don't see how it will work. Another thing is, Shaq represents a stark change in offensively philosophy for the Suns. Their offense has been built on scoring in 10 seconds or less, steals, quick outlet passes off rebounds, run run run. Now they will need to become more of a half-court team for Shaq to succeed in their offense. From what I've read D'Antoni doesn't sound particularly enthusiastic about the trade, how is it going to work if your coach isn't buying into it, and has to change his offense to boot?

PNRs . . . sounds good, but Shaq has never had a weak-side defender who can block shots as well as Amare behind him. Ho Grant? Meh. I can see it now . . . Parker and Duncan PNR around Shaq . . . Parker to the hoop . . . REJECTED by Stoudemire.

Offensive philosopy . . . I disagree, the Suns very rarely fast break with all five players. Shaq can trail. And when the game slows down he can move into the low block. Amare is effective enough from the elbow that he doesn't need the post. And who do you double team? Shaq? Amare? Double team Shaq, he kicks it to Amare, who is stronger than most fours and faster than most fives. I think Amare's scoring will go up significantly with Shaq in the lineup.

And, don't forget the Nash factor. Shaq has never played with a point guard of Nash's caliber. (Wade and Penny aren't true points, IMO). Steve will get him a consistent diet of easy buckets. Same with Hill and Diaw.

As successful as the Lakers were with Shaq, his reluctance to play the PNR hurt them on many occasions, especially later in his time with the Lakers. Most notably during the Pistons/Lakers series. Exactly how many shots do you expect Amare to block a game? Amare is an decent weakside shot blocker, but he's not that good. And honestly weakside shot blocking only gets you so far. Denver has the best weakside shot blocker in the game in Camby, yet they are arguably the worst defensive team in the league.

Phoenix is already a poor defensive team, and this trade makes them worse, not better defensively.

The point on offensive philosophy is, D'Antoni has coached this team as a fast breaking quick hitting team for years, and now they will need to learn to slow the game up for Shaq. This doesn't happen overnight when you've run a team a certain way for years. They will have a very short period of time to integrate Shaq and a very limited window of success with him. I don't think it happens this year, and then what happens next season when he is yet another year older, slower, and even more out of shape?

Also, Shaq is an excellent post passer, one of the best in the game, but he needs the ball to operate. Shaq's most effective work comes in setting up in the post, and either scoring or hitting cutters, but he needs the ball to do so. How is that going to work when Nash also needs the ball to be effective? One reason Shaq has been so successful with Penny, then Kobe, then Wade is because having a dominant two guard like those guys (Wade and Penny have been considered ones, but they were twos) free's Shaq up to operate in the post without requiring them to have the ball in their hands.

BTW, XMan, make sure to pickup your new Shaq replica uniform while they are hot.

why do they need to slow the game down for Shaq? Inevitably, at some points, the opponent will slow the game down to try and beat Phoenix. That's where Shaq will be strongest.

 

[JC86]

Originally posted by: XMan

Originally posted by: trmiv
Apparently Phoenix wants Shaq to stick to rebounding and defending. Aside from being an imposing figure, Shaq has never been a good defender. He doesn't particularly like doing it, and Shaq has said he will not be a token center. Also, Shaq is horrible at defending the pick-and-roll because he NEVER shows. The Suns will get PNR'd to death with Shaq in the lineup. They will get a taste of their own medicine on a nightly basis. Yes he will be better at defending post-players, but I think their overall defense will suffer. Right now he's complaining about "touches" in Miami, so he still clearly sees himself as an offensive threat that needs shots, how is he going to accept being asked to just rebound the ball and play defense? I don't see how it will work. Another thing is, Shaq represents a stark change in offensively philosophy for the Suns. Their offense has been built on scoring in 10 seconds or less, steals, quick outlet passes off rebounds, run run run. Now they will need to become more of a half-court team for Shaq to succeed in their offense. From what I've read D'Antoni doesn't sound particularly enthusiastic about the trade, how is it going to work if your coach isn't buying into it, and has to change his offense to boot?

PNRs . . . sounds good, but Shaq has never had a weak-side defender who can block shots as well as Amare behind him. Ho Grant? Meh. I can see it now . . . Parker and Duncan PNR around Shaq . . . Parker to the hoop . . . REJECTED by Stoudemire.

Offensive philosopy . . . I disagree, the Suns very rarely fast break with all five players. Shaq can trail. And when the game slows down he can move into the low block. Amare is effective enough from the elbow that he doesn't need the post. And who do you double team? Shaq? Amare? Double team Shaq, he kicks it to Amare, who is stronger than most fours and faster than most fives. I think Amare's scoring will go up significantly with Shaq in the lineup.

And, don't forget the Nash factor. Shaq has never played with a point guard of Nash's caliber. (Wade and Penny aren't true points, IMO). Steve will get him a consistent diet of easy buckets. Same with Hill and Diaw.

While Nash is the best pg Shaq will have ever played with, Nash's game is based on drive and kick. He'll have a clogged lane with Shaq in the post and his room to operate will be much smaller.

In terms of Amare as a good weak side defender, what a joke. Amare's a beast on offense but a joke of a defender. Nash's non existent perimeter defense means the fast point guards of the West, Allen Iverson, Baron Davis, Deron Williams, Chris Paul, Tony Parker, Devin Harris, and Jordan Farmar will go right by and put Shaq and Amare in foul trouble. The pick and roll and pick and pop will there all day because shaq's never shows and the likes of Kobe, T-Mac, Melo, AI, etc. will make a living shooting the 18 footers off the pick.

Suns weakened themselves both defensively, where Marion was a beast and guarded the opponent's best perimeter player in crunch time, and offensively, where Nash's room to operate is so much more restricted now that Shaq and the man defending him is parked in the paint.

 

[oiprocs]

Text

Well guys, it's official. Shaq is headed to the Suns.

Oh boy, these shall be some good times.

 

[kalster]

crazy move, I love the Suns and their fast paced style, Diesel is just going to slow them down

 

[Ricochet]

As a Suns fan, I can honestly say this is the worst decision ever by Phoenix. This reminds me of the time when the Seattle Supersonics acquired Patrick Ewing at the end of his career and all he did for them was sat at the sideline nursing his knees. What the Suns got is a highly paid bench warmer who can barely play 15mins of basketball. One day he'll be nursing his hip, then his lower back the next, his knees next, and so on forth.

 

[Dacalo]

WTF, the Matrix for over-the-hill-injury-prone Shaq? LMAO!

I know Marion demanded a trade before the season started but he has been quiet since. The Heat robbed the Suns. What's with all these one-sided deals?

 

[homercles337]

Shaq is a hack. He is probably one of the *worst* players in the NBA.

 

[BudAshes]

This is insanity, i wonder wtf nash is thinking. Is there anyone he would rather be on his team less than that statue?

 

[waggy]

Originally posted by: homercles337
Shaq is a hack. He is probably one of the *worst* players in the NBA.

/me taps his sarcasm meter..hmm seems to be working.

 

[homercles337]

Originally posted by: waggy

Originally posted by: homercles337
Shaq is a hack. He is probably one of the *worst* players in the NBA.

/me taps his sarcasm meter..hmm seems to be working.

Talent? Nope. Not there. He's big, thats all he has got.

 

[Ns1]

Originally posted by: homercles337

Originally posted by: waggy

Originally posted by: homercles337
Shaq is a hack. He is probably one of the *worst* players in the NBA.

/me taps his sarcasm meter..hmm seems to be working.

Talent? Nope. Not there. He's big, thats all he has got.

kazaam is the best movie ever. it was just too ahead of it's time.

 

[StinkyMojo]

Originally posted by: homercles337

Originally posted by: waggy

Originally posted by: homercles337
Shaq is a hack. He is probably one of the *worst* players in the NBA.

/me taps his sarcasm meter..hmm seems to be working.

Talent? Nope. Not there. He's big, thats all he has got.

Ok.. I'd rather have Marion over Shaq anyday... but that doesn't mean he's lost all talent.