Settle a discussion. Xbox 360 graphics vs High End PC

[Ateo]

Originally posted by: jammur21
Performance/Power/Resolution - PC
Price/Value/Fun - Xbox 360

/thread

I beg to differ.
It would be a fallacy to declare that all console games are more fun that PC games, or even that it is a general rule.

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: Zstream

Originally posted by: Pugnate
I am having a chat with a couple of blokes who insist that the Xbox 360 can match a high end PC's graphics for years to come. Even though I've shown links of the developers of Crysis saying the 360 can't do a DX 10 level of Crysis, they keep insisting it is possible, and they feel that a 360 will basically match a high end PC for years to come.

Their argument is that Oblivion didn't look as good on the 360 as Gears of War. Well that's obviously because one is an open structured RPG and the other is just a FPS.

Anyway your thoughts?

400$ vs 1500$ emmmm I pick the 400$ one

I'd like to know where you're coming up with $1500. Neither one of my rigs costs that much and put xbox360 to shame. Anyone could build a rig for $600 today which does the same thing.


eg.. 1950xt $210, processor $75, mobo $75, mem $90, HDD $50, PSU $70 etc

If you really want to destory it drop a 8800GTX in there putting you right at $1000

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Ateo

Originally posted by: apoppin

in your mind only

--by quoting raw *statistics* you proved nothing.

--and you fail to continue your 'argument' by adding nothing further but an attack on my *only opinion* in my post
--that "my money" IS on PC gaming ...

that is the *only conclusion* i offered

i DID - however - *question* your *statistics* ... and their relevance to this discussion
and i still do
:frown:

i still also find it really hard to believe that an strongly opinionated and argumentative persona as yourself could have just *lurked* for a couple of years in Video and remained totally silent -- until just recently.
:Q

The original claim was that very few games was developed or the PC (nativly)
The list proves other wise
(And it does have a section dedicated to console ports and multiplatform titles too, making it even better as a source.)
So as a counter argument to the original claim that list is valid.

And trust, me I am active at other boards, most times as a lurker, but I do speak out when I disagree, but then again there are a myriad of hardware sites and one can't be active at all of them, and still have the time to make posts with any substance

And I have a blog, that takes the most of my time online, so I rarely have the time between blogging, gaming, messing with hardware/software, the job, my life ect. to post at hardware forums.

and I might loose the lust to post here quite fast, have already been subjected to in person(not directed at you in any way) how trolls attack my person, when faced with a argument that they either can wrap their haed aroundor simply have no rebuttal too.

I have even been asked in PM to participate in certain threads, and said no and told the person that better moderation was the way to go.
(feel free to come out if you like and comment if you like to clarify more on that topic, you know who you are )[/quote]

thank-you for the explanation ... i *feel* like we have debated before ... and you seem very *familiar* for a brand-new member. Perhaps we met on another message board?

you certainly *do* realize that there is no *definitive answer* to the OP's question ... no matter how *good* you feel your argument it, there is always another valid PoV.

anyway ... you list pales in comparison to *big dev* games in development for the platforms ... kinda hard to take the 'indies' seriously unless you are into them.

 

[Zebo]

Price is NOT AN issue. We all know the 360 is excellent value.

I dont think so if you use the standard definition of value. Price/performance. Not only can you perform infinitely more tasks on a PC it can be had for about the same price and perform games just as well as a 360. 360 is for those who like things simple, no building, closed proprietary..it just works the minute they plug it in. BYO takes some research some basic assembly skills someone who doesnt blow thier wad on a CPU or 2 gigs of high performance memory thinking it will help them game.

 

[derail]

The only thing I dont like about a 360 is that must games that are good are FPS. and yes you can play onlie with them but I get bored with FPS games and I complet the singlal game to soon. With Games like EQ, EQ II, WOW, Eve , Guild Wars and all the othere Morpgs I left out I have nuch more fun wokring with a good group in a dungeon than playing a FPS online.
Burn out revenge is a lot of fun and I do like the being abel to watch Hd-dvd Movies on somthing I only paid $176 for

 

[derail]

I also plan on building My Last Pc once I can spare teh $$ for it, right now making sure my son has enough to start and continue College if he dosnt get many grants, make improvments to the House and help my Daugther get back on track in school.

 

[apoppin]

thought this might be interesting

http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=37101

Tales of PSP2 and next-gen Xbox 360 surface

. . .
Windows 'expert' and peddler of all things Microsoft, Paul Thurrott, recently confirmed the possibility of an updated Xbox 360 console, specifically for the recently announced IPTV additions.

In a new edition of 'Windows Weekly', Paul says that a new version of the Xbox 360 will be coming in late 2007 and that only the new 360 will have the ability to use IPTV.

In addition to a new Xbox, he also states a larger hard-drive is expected to be released - a rumour that has been doing the rounds for some time, and very likely considering the demands of the Xbox Video Marketplace plus any storage requirements for an IPTV service (albeit it could be argued little space would be needed for streamed IPTV).

This fits nicely with our report on the leaked shots of a 360 which comes fitted with a HDMI output.

While Microsoft has tried to play-down the images, the company has admitted that the HDMI-equipped console did exist in prototype form within experimental labs.

It's quite possible that providers of streamed IPTV in SD or HD form, would demand a HDCP-enabled HDMI connection, for copyright protection reasons.

:Q

 

[thilanliyan]

Originally posted by: BFG10K

So if that is the case how in the world can you expect Crysis to run on the 360

You can't - Crytek have stated it won't be coming to consoles because they don't have the power to run it.

YESSSSSS!!!!

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: thilan29

Originally posted by: BFG10K

So if that is the case how in the world can you expect Crysis to run on the 360

You can't - Crytek have stated it won't be coming to consoles because they don't have the power to run it.

YESSSSSS!!!!

and you believed them

they said the *same thing* about FarCry and the Xbox

[it's not *the same* game ... but you now know what to *really expect*]

Crysis is no DX10 game ... it will have *dx10 Features* and will be *patched* into a DX10 game ... over time.

No reason it couldn't be ported to Xbox360 ... right now ... unless they are UNsure about it's *financial successs*

really

 

[Drayvn]

Originally posted by: apoppin
thought this might be interesting

http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=37101

Tales of PSP2 and next-gen Xbox 360 surface

. . .
Windows 'expert' and peddler of all things Microsoft, Paul Thurrott, recently confirmed the possibility of an updated Xbox 360 console, specifically for the recently announced IPTV additions.

In a new edition of 'Windows Weekly', Paul says that a new version of the Xbox 360 will be coming in late 2007 and that only the new 360 will have the ability to use IPTV.

In addition to a new Xbox, he also states a larger hard-drive is expected to be released - a rumour that has been doing the rounds for some time, and very likely considering the demands of the Xbox Video Marketplace plus any storage requirements for an IPTV service (albeit it could be argued little space would be needed for streamed IPTV).

This fits nicely with our report on the leaked shots of a 360 which comes fitted with a HDMI output.

While Microsoft has tried to play-down the images, the company has admitted that the HDMI-equipped console did exist in prototype form within experimental labs.

It's quite possible that providers of streamed IPTV in SD or HD form, would demand a HDCP-enabled HDMI connection, for copyright protection reasons.

:Q

I think i saw an interview with one of the higher ups in Microsoft about that information you have there. They said they were looking into it and indeed have a prototype model but nothing concrete, and they also said they had NO plans on bringing out a new Xbox360. All of it was just ideas at this point and might not even get past that.

But do remember that if they bring out a 120Gb hard drive, you know straight away its not just gonna be able to fit that one, they will be able to fit to the "obsolete" ones.

But on the other hand, if this DOES come out... i thought Consoles werent "upgradeable" like a PC... So if you want to keep up with the tech, you have to shell out more money... like a PC, so in the end there will be no difference, even in price, since you have better consoles every year!!!

 

[Acanthus]

The die shrink is what im waiting for, so i dont pay for an overheating POS.

 

[darkswordsman17]

The "upgraded" 360 isn't going to change its processors or memory (by change I mean the specs as they are going to have a die shrink) which is what dictates performance, not the size of the hard drive or it having an HDMI port. This has nothing to do with having a better system, it just adds features that quite a few people don't even need. I think Bill Gates himself has said that it won't require a new system to have IPTV.

I'm fairly confident that they could get Crysis running on a 360. Yes they'd have to compromise it in some way (if that other story about it doing 60fps at 2048x1536 resolution on a single 8800GTX is correct then running it at 720p would allow for a good bit of eye candy) but it'd still be a great looking game. The last thing Crytek said is that they aren't working on it at the moment because they're trying to finish the game and trying to port it would take away from their ability to make it as good as they want it to be. If it turns out to be as good as it looks to be, then I'm confident we'll see it on either the 360 or the PS3 or possibly both. Companies go where the money is, and there's a lot of money there. Considering their connection with EA, I'd say there's a very good chance we'll see Crysis (and possibly games based on the engine) on consoles.

Here's an article that addresses the consoles too weak statement. Text

 

[Acanthus]

Originally posted by: darkswordsman17
The "upgraded" 360 isn't going to change its processors or memory (by change I mean the specs as they are going to have a die shrink) which is what dictates performance, not the size of the hard drive or it having an HDMI port. This has nothing to do with having a better system, it just adds features that quite a few people don't even need. I think Bill Gates himself has said that it won't require a new system to have IPTV.

I'm fairly confident that they could get Crysis running on a 360. Yes they'd have to compromise it in some way (if that other story about it doing 60fps at 2048x1536 resolution on a single 8800GTX is correct then running it at 720p would allow for a good bit of eye candy) but it'd still be a great looking game. The last thing Crytek said is that they aren't working on it at the moment because they're trying to finish the game and trying to port it would take away from their ability to make it as good as they want it to be. If it turns out to be as good as it looks to be, then I'm confident we'll see it on either the 360 or the PS3 or possibly both. Companies go where the money is, and there's a lot of money there. Considering their connection with EA, I'd say there's a very good chance we'll see Crysis (and possibly games based on the engine) on consoles.

Here's an article that addresses the consoles too weak statement. Text

Explain how they are going to cram more than 1GB of game code into 512MB of xbox 360?

Gut the textures, scale back the geometry, move the clip planes WAY in.

It simply wont look as good.

 

[mooncancook]

Originally posted by: Zstream

Originally posted by: Pugnate
I am having a chat with a couple of blokes who insist that the Xbox 360 can match a high end PC's graphics for years to come. Even though I've shown links of the developers of Crysis saying the 360 can't do a DX 10 level of Crysis, they keep insisting it is possible, and they feel that a 360 will basically match a high end PC for years to come.

Their argument is that Oblivion didn't look as good on the 360 as Gears of War. Well that's obviously because one is an open structured RPG and the other is just a FPS.

Anyway your thoughts?

400$ vs 1500$ emmmm I pick the 400$ one

PC is both a useful tool and a gaming system unlike a console. A PC is a necessity to most ppl, while a gaming console is not, that's why ppl are more sensitive to price of console than PC, and why PS3 is considered too expensive. And since I have to own a PC, I would like to make it a powerful gaming and multi-media system as well.

[edit] back to OP's question, the answer is simple, just look back to history, unless suddenly developers decided to totally abandon the PC platform [/edit]

 

[Ichigo]

Originally posted by: Zebo

Originally posted by: Zstream

Originally posted by: Pugnate
I am having a chat with a couple of blokes who insist that the Xbox 360 can match a high end PC's graphics for years to come. Even though I've shown links of the developers of Crysis saying the 360 can't do a DX 10 level of Crysis, they keep insisting it is possible, and they feel that a 360 will basically match a high end PC for years to come.

Their argument is that Oblivion didn't look as good on the 360 as Gears of War. Well that's obviously because one is an open structured RPG and the other is just a FPS.

Anyway your thoughts?

400$ vs 1500$ emmmm I pick the 400$ one

I'd like to know where you're coming up with $1500. Neither one of my rigs costs that much and put xbox360 to shame. Anyone could build a rig for $600 today which does the same thing.


eg.. 1950xt $210, processor $75, mobo $75, mem $90, HDD $50, PSU $70 etc

If you really want to destory it drop a 8800GTX in there putting you right at $1000

Uh... DVD drive, case, etc.?

And no PC game really has surpassed Gears of War in visuals, technically or artistically. I mean you could make cases for games you believe could challenge GoW's graphics in one way or the other, but nothing that's decisive. So maybe your PC's have better specifications, but GoW puts most PC games to shame. =p

 

[ZimZum]

Originally posted by: Ichigo

Originally posted by: Zebo

Originally posted by: Zstream

Originally posted by: Pugnate
I am having a chat with a couple of blokes who insist that the Xbox 360 can match a high end PC's graphics for years to come. Even though I've shown links of the developers of Crysis saying the 360 can't do a DX 10 level of Crysis, they keep insisting it is possible, and they feel that a 360 will basically match a high end PC for years to come.

Their argument is that Oblivion didn't look as good on the 360 as Gears of War. Well that's obviously because one is an open structured RPG and the other is just a FPS.

Anyway your thoughts?

400$ vs 1500$ emmmm I pick the 400$ one

I'd like to know where you're coming up with $1500. Neither one of my rigs costs that much and put xbox360 to shame. Anyone could build a rig for $600 today which does the same thing.


eg.. 1950xt $210, processor $75, mobo $75, mem $90, HDD $50, PSU $70 etc

If you really want to destory it drop a 8800GTX in there putting you right at $1000

Uh... DVD drive, case, etc.?

And no PC game really has surpassed Gears of War in visuals, technically or artistically. I mean you could make cases for games you believe could challenge GoW's graphics in one way or the other, but nothing that's decisive. So maybe your PC's have better specifications, but GoW puts most PC games to shame. =p

This is what most are over looking.

What difference does it makes if your PC has a horsepower advantage over a console when there are NO games available to take advantage of it?? I mean benchmarks are nice and all but At the end of the day its about the games. And as of right now the best looking game on any platform is GOW. Will that change in the future? Of course, but go over to game rankings and of the top 20 or so rated games only a handful are PC titles. Same has been true for the past 3 years or so. The major game developers are either already in the console camp or are switching there. Its sad to say but the PC is becoming a marginalized niche market. Every year the list of PC games to get excited about gets smaller and smaller.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Acanthus

Originally posted by: darkswordsman17
The "upgraded" 360 isn't going to change its processors or memory (by change I mean the specs as they are going to have a die shrink) which is what dictates performance, not the size of the hard drive or it having an HDMI port. This has nothing to do with having a better system, it just adds features that quite a few people don't even need. I think Bill Gates himself has said that it won't require a new system to have IPTV.

I'm fairly confident that they could get Crysis running on a 360. Yes they'd have to compromise it in some way (if that other story about it doing 60fps at 2048x1536 resolution on a single 8800GTX is correct then running it at 720p would allow for a good bit of eye candy) but it'd still be a great looking game. The last thing Crytek said is that they aren't working on it at the moment because they're trying to finish the game and trying to port it would take away from their ability to make it as good as they want it to be. If it turns out to be as good as it looks to be, then I'm confident we'll see it on either the 360 or the PS3 or possibly both. Companies go where the money is, and there's a lot of money there. Considering their connection with EA, I'd say there's a very good chance we'll see Crysis (and possibly games based on the engine) on consoles.

Here's an article that addresses the consoles too weak statement. Text

Explain how they are going to cram more than 1GB of game code into 512MB of xbox 360?

Gut the textures, scale back the geometry, move the clip planes WAY in.

It simply wont look as good.

you quoted the link - READ it Text

During Leipzig, Crytek senior game designer Bernd Diemer claimed Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3 were too weak to handle Crysis. Now, slightly down the totem pole, Crytek lead artist Michael Khaimzon is saying he's confident that Crysis could be ported. "I don't think there would be any problem to convert anything we work on to the next-gen consoles . . . "

told you so

expect Crysis ported to Xbox and PS3

EA is the publisher

and as others have said - FORGET Oblivion ... - there is NO game running on PC that can *touch* the gfx of GoW ... we're gonna have to wait for a new game to *compare*

 

[Acanthus]

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: Acanthus

Originally posted by: darkswordsman17
The "upgraded" 360 isn't going to change its processors or memory (by change I mean the specs as they are going to have a die shrink) which is what dictates performance, not the size of the hard drive or it having an HDMI port. This has nothing to do with having a better system, it just adds features that quite a few people don't even need. I think Bill Gates himself has said that it won't require a new system to have IPTV.

I'm fairly confident that they could get Crysis running on a 360. Yes they'd have to compromise it in some way (if that other story about it doing 60fps at 2048x1536 resolution on a single 8800GTX is correct then running it at 720p would allow for a good bit of eye candy) but it'd still be a great looking game. The last thing Crytek said is that they aren't working on it at the moment because they're trying to finish the game and trying to port it would take away from their ability to make it as good as they want it to be. If it turns out to be as good as it looks to be, then I'm confident we'll see it on either the 360 or the PS3 or possibly both. Companies go where the money is, and there's a lot of money there. Considering their connection with EA, I'd say there's a very good chance we'll see Crysis (and possibly games based on the engine) on consoles.

Here's an article that addresses the consoles too weak statement. Text

Explain how they are going to cram more than 1GB of game code into 512MB of xbox 360?

Gut the textures, scale back the geometry, move the clip planes WAY in.

It simply wont look as good.

you quoted the link - READ it Text

During Leipzig, Crytek senior game designer Bernd Diemer claimed Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3 were too weak to handle Crysis. Now, slightly down the totem pole, Crytek lead artist Michael Khaimzon is saying he's confident that Crysis could be ported. "I don't think there would be any problem to convert anything we work on to the next-gen consoles . . . "

told you so

expect Crysis ported to Xbox and PS3

EA is the publisher

and as others have said - FORGET Oblivion ... - there is NO game running on PC that can *touch* the gfx of GoW ... we're gonna have to wait for a new game to *compare*

Did you understand my post?

I didnt say it wasnt possible, i said it will look substantially worse.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Acanthus

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: Acanthus

Originally posted by: darkswordsman17
The "upgraded" 360 isn't going to change its processors or memory (by change I mean the specs as they are going to have a die shrink) which is what dictates performance, not the size of the hard drive or it having an HDMI port. This has nothing to do with having a better system, it just adds features that quite a few people don't even need. I think Bill Gates himself has said that it won't require a new system to have IPTV.

I'm fairly confident that they could get Crysis running on a 360. Yes they'd have to compromise it in some way (if that other story about it doing 60fps at 2048x1536 resolution on a single 8800GTX is correct then running it at 720p would allow for a good bit of eye candy) but it'd still be a great looking game. The last thing Crytek said is that they aren't working on it at the moment because they're trying to finish the game and trying to port it would take away from their ability to make it as good as they want it to be. If it turns out to be as good as it looks to be, then I'm confident we'll see it on either the 360 or the PS3 or possibly both. Companies go where the money is, and there's a lot of money there. Considering their connection with EA, I'd say there's a very good chance we'll see Crysis (and possibly games based on the engine) on consoles.

Here's an article that addresses the consoles too weak statement. Text

Explain how they are going to cram more than 1GB of game code into 512MB of xbox 360?

Gut the textures, scale back the geometry, move the clip planes WAY in.

It simply wont look as good.

you quoted the link - READ it Text

During Leipzig, Crytek senior game designer Bernd Diemer claimed Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3 were too weak to handle Crysis. Now, slightly down the totem pole, Crytek lead artist Michael Khaimzon is saying he's confident that Crysis could be ported. "I don't think there would be any problem to convert anything we work on to the next-gen consoles . . . "

told you so

expect Crysis ported to Xbox and PS3

EA is the publisher

and as others have said - FORGET Oblivion ... - there is NO game running on PC that can *touch* the gfx of GoW ... we're gonna have to wait for a new game to *compare*

Did you understand my post?

I didnt say it wasnt possible, i said it will look substantially worse.

let me try again ... it WON'T look any worse
it is a DX9c game !

GoW looks better than ANY pc game [period]

 

[josh6079]

there is NO game running on PC that can *touch* the gfx of GoW ... we're gonna have to wait for a new game to *compare*...GoW looks better than ANY pc game [period]

Not so much, IMO. Sorry, but for a games as new as that I like to have AA.

I don't think consoles will ever compare to PC's as long as they completely lock the users out of determining simple features such as resolution, AA/AF, shadows, etc. With a PC, there is much more control and I really wish consoles would allow the kind of tweaks that PC can do. I understand that a console serves as a universal system to base a game's code upon, and that's fine. But why lock out the ability to control things as beneficial as AA/AF, resolution, etc?

Graphic-wise, a PC will alwasy look better so long as consoles keep locking out graphical improvements such as the above mentioned. Being able to decide if I want more or less AA, higher or lower partical detail, etc. is a huge benefit to have over a "lock-box", IMO.

Consoles have their nitch, and to say that they are overall "better" than a PC, or that a PC is overall "better" than a console depends completely upon who is making that decision and what their needs are.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: josh6079

there is NO game running on PC that can *touch* the gfx of GoW ... we're gonna have to wait for a new game to *compare*...GoW looks better than ANY pc game [period]

Not so much, IMO. Sorry, but for a games as new as that I like to have AA.

I don't think consoles will ever compare to PC's as long as they completely lock the users out of determining simple features such as resolution, AA/AF, shadows, etc. With a PC, there is much more control and I really wish consoles would allow the kind of tweaks that PC can do. I understand that a console serves as a universal system to base a game's code upon, and that's fine. But why lock out the ability to control things as beneficial as AA/AF, resolution, etc?

Graphic-wise, a PC will alwasy look better so long as consoles keep locking out graphical improvements such as the above mentioned. Being able to decide if I want more or less AA, higher or lower partical detail, etc. is a huge benefit to have over a "lock-box", IMO.

Consoles have their nitch, and to say that they are overall "better" than a PC, or that a PC is overall "better" than a console depends completely upon who is making that decision and what their needs are.

*first of all*

have you actually *seen* GoW on a big LCD?

:Q

or are you just talking *in general* ?

 

[davidober]

Originally posted by: apoppin
[let me try again ... it WON'T look any worse
it is a DX9c game !

GoW looks better than ANY pc game [period]

Well, in my opinion, you have it exactly backward. To my eye, Oblivion with all eye candy turned on, looks better than any console game PERIOD.

See, I can be just as annoying as you!

And yes, I've seen GoW on a giant screen 1080p television.

 

[Ateo]

Originally posted by: apoppin
*first of all*

have you actually *seen* GoW on a big LCD?

:Q

or are you just talking *in general* ?

I have seen it and the "texture streaming" chaught my eye pretty fast.
But lets do a comparison when games that fully utilize the UE3 comes out to for PC, shall we?

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: davidober

Originally posted by: apoppin
[let me try again ... it WON'T look any worse
it is a DX9c game !

GoW looks better than ANY pc game [period]

Well, in my opinion, you have it exactly backward. To my eye, Oblivion with all eye candy turned on, looks better than any console game PERIOD.

See, I can be just as annoying as you!

And yes, I've seen GoW on a giant screen 1080p television.

i have Oblivion and GoW is nicer gfx.

and are you *trying* to be annoying? ...

you haven't succeeded


===========================

Originally posted by: Ateo

Originally posted by: apoppin
*first of all*

have you actually *seen* GoW on a big LCD?

:Q

or are you just talking *in general* ?

I have seen it and the "texture streaming" chaught my eye pretty fast.
But lets do a comparison when games that fully utilize the UE3 comes out to for PC, shall we?

that IS what i said



and DX10 games will definitely *best* the consoles ... in a couple of years

 

[apoppin]

dp