Settle a discussion. Xbox 360 graphics vs High End PC

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: BladeVenom

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: BladeVenom
That software sales chart is totally meaningless. It doesn't cover all stores, online sales, gaming accounts like Steam and Totalgaming.net, or game subscriptions. World of Warcraft alone will earn more money this year than all of the Wii games, XBox 360 games, or PS3 games will make this year.

nonsense

in what fantasyland?

WoW has 8 millions subscribers paying about $14 a month. They sold 2.4 million copies of Burning Crusade in the first day. That's already looking to be 1.34 Billion, and that's if they sell no more games, and get no new subscribers. I would guess it makes over 1.5 billion this year, possibly 2 billion dollars or more.

Do you think any of the new consoles will sell 2 billion dollars worth of games this year?

Xbox 360 has the most consoles out there now, so how much do you think it will sell in games for 2007?

yes

where have you been?


you also seem to miss out on the *live* aspects of console gaming

. . . and your math is pretty *fuzzy*

the consoles eat PC gaming alive in terms of dollars spent by consumers


EDIT: let's put this in *perspective*

this was an UNbelievable launch for a PC title ... it sold $100M in 24 hours ...
BUT it still comes second to Halo 2 which holds a record of 125 million dollars in sales during first 24 hours.

and don't count monthly subscription fees as *sales* ... they are selling server time

now name another PC game that even comes close
:Q

 

[Nightmare225]

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: BladeVenom

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: BladeVenom
That software sales chart is totally meaningless. It doesn't cover all stores, online sales, gaming accounts like Steam and Totalgaming.net, or game subscriptions. World of Warcraft alone will earn more money this year than all of the Wii games, XBox 360 games, or PS3 games will make this year.

nonsense

in what fantasyland?

WoW has 8 millions subscribers paying about $14 a month. They sold 2.4 million copies of Burning Crusade in the first day. That's already looking to be 1.34 Billion, and that's if they sell no more games, and get no new subscribers. I would guess it makes over 1.5 billion this year, possibly 2 billion dollars or more.

Do you think any of the new consoles will sell 2 billion dollars worth of games this year?

Xbox 360 has the most consoles out there now, so how much do you think it will sell in games for 2007?

yes

where have you been?


you also seem to miss out on the *live* aspects of console gaming

. . . and your math is pretty *fuzzy*

the consoles eat PC gaming alive in terms of dollars spent by consumers


EDIT: let's put this in *perspective*

this was an UNbelievable launch for a PC title ... it sold $100M in 24 hours ...
BUT it still comes second to Halo 2 which holds a record of 125 million dollars in sales during first 24 hours.

and don't count monthly subscription fees as *sales* ... they are selling server time

now name another PC game that even comes close
:Q

Do you really think it takes $15 a month (or whatever the subscription fee now is) to run servers for several million people. Does it really cost 15 million dollars monthly to maintain all those servers?

Let's put this into your perspective. A huge chunk of money that consumers spend for a game will be used to make up for R&D and advertisments. Companies don't make anywhere near the $60 per game sold.

 

[apoppin]

--do i really think?
--does it really cost? :frown:

all beside the point!

i really think subscription fees are not game sales

 

[Imyourzero]

I just wish MS would release a mouse/kb set for the 360 and, subsequently, that developers would allow gamers to define keys for those devices just as they do on PC. That might entice me to use my 360 for games other than those from the racing and action/adventure genres.

I enjoy FPS games (usually my favorite type of game) far more on a PC due to not having to use a controller. Even with the analog sticks on the Sony & MS controllers I find that a mouse & keyboard allow much more accurate control, not to mention there are dozens of keys and buttons that allow more functions without duplication or awkward button combinations. I mean it's all fine and dandy that GRAW and R6:V look better on 360 but personally I don't enjoy playing them (or any FPS) nearly as much with the MS controller, or any other controller for that matter. Mouse and keyboard ftw.

 

[Imyourzero]

Originally posted by: Acanthus

Originally posted by: darkswordsman17
I'm fairly confident that they could get Crysis running on a 360. Yes they'd have to compromise it in some way (if that other story about it doing 60fps at 2048x1536 resolution on a single 8800GTX is correct then running it at 720p would allow for a good bit of eye candy) but it'd still be a great looking game. The last thing Crytek said is that they aren't working on it at the moment because they're trying to finish the game and trying to port it would take away from their ability to make it as good as they want it to be. If it turns out to be as good as it looks to be, then I'm confident we'll see it on either the 360 or the PS3 or possibly both. Companies go where the money is, and there's a lot of money there. Considering their connection with EA, I'd say there's a very good chance we'll see Crysis (and possibly games based on the engine) on consoles.

Here's an article that addresses the consoles too weak statement. Text

Explain how they are going to cram more than 1GB of game code into 512MB of xbox 360?

Gut the textures, scale back the geometry, move the clip planes WAY in.

It simply wont look as good.

Also, Acanthus, I have to point this out just because in a way you two are saying the same thing yet it sounds like you're disagreeing with him.

Darkswordsman never claimed that Crysis 360 would look as good, just that it was possible.

 

[lopri]

I didn't read through this long thread, but there is a question that's been bugging me quite sometime: Why can't you use mouse + keyboard for consoles?

I can't imagine there is a technical difficulty for such simple input methods, so I've been curious about why. Is there any 'settled' answer to this question? I mean, it'll make console gaming whole lot more attractive for PC folks, not to mention easy navigating and typing, etc.

 

[Nightmare225]

Originally posted by: Imyourzero

Originally posted by: Acanthus

Originally posted by: darkswordsman17
I'm fairly confident that they could get Crysis running on a 360. Yes they'd have to compromise it in some way (if that other story about it doing 60fps at 2048x1536 resolution on a single 8800GTX is correct then running it at 720p would allow for a good bit of eye candy) but it'd still be a great looking game. The last thing Crytek said is that they aren't working on it at the moment because they're trying to finish the game and trying to port it would take away from their ability to make it as good as they want it to be. If it turns out to be as good as it looks to be, then I'm confident we'll see it on either the 360 or the PS3 or possibly both. Companies go where the money is, and there's a lot of money there. Considering their connection with EA, I'd say there's a very good chance we'll see Crysis (and possibly games based on the engine) on consoles.

Here's an article that addresses the consoles too weak statement. Text

Explain how they are going to cram more than 1GB of game code into 512MB of xbox 360?

Gut the textures, scale back the geometry, move the clip planes WAY in.

It simply wont look as good.

Also, Acanthus, I have to point this out just because in a way you two are saying the same thing yet it sounds like you're disagreeing with him.

Darkswordsman never claimed that Crysis 360 would look as good, just that it was possible.

The fact is. The physics and enviroments make a huge part of the gameplay, and the 360 won't be able to handle all of them. So, there'll have to be gameplay compromises too. IT just won't be "Crysis." Remember Far Cry Instincts?

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Nightmare225

Originally posted by: Imyourzero

Originally posted by: Acanthus

Originally posted by: darkswordsman17
I'm fairly confident that they could get Crysis running on a 360. Yes they'd have to compromise it in some way (if that other story about it doing 60fps at 2048x1536 resolution on a single 8800GTX is correct then running it at 720p would allow for a good bit of eye candy) but it'd still be a great looking game. The last thing Crytek said is that they aren't working on it at the moment because they're trying to finish the game and trying to port it would take away from their ability to make it as good as they want it to be. If it turns out to be as good as it looks to be, then I'm confident we'll see it on either the 360 or the PS3 or possibly both. Companies go where the money is, and there's a lot of money there. Considering their connection with EA, I'd say there's a very good chance we'll see Crysis (and possibly games based on the engine) on consoles.

Here's an article that addresses the consoles too weak statement. Text

Explain how they are going to cram more than 1GB of game code into 512MB of xbox 360?

Gut the textures, scale back the geometry, move the clip planes WAY in.

It simply wont look as good.

Also, Acanthus, I have to point this out just because in a way you two are saying the same thing yet it sounds like you're disagreeing with him.

Darkswordsman never claimed that Crysis 360 would look as good, just that it was possible.

The fact is. The physics and enviroments make a huge part of the gameplay, and the 360 won't be able to handle all of them. So, there'll have to be gameplay compromises too. IT just won't be "Crysis." Remember Far Cry Instincts?

according to .... *you*

a Crysis Dev admitted there is NO reason it can't be ported to the xbox 360 ...

and Crysis might be buggy crap

we have to wait and see

 

[Nightmare225]

Originally posted by: apoppin
we have to wait and see

Yes. That's the best thing to do. No use speculating.

 

[ZimZum]

Originally posted by: BladeVenom

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: BladeVenom
That software sales chart is totally meaningless. It doesn't cover all stores, online sales, gaming accounts like Steam and Totalgaming.net, or game subscriptions. World of Warcraft alone will earn more money this year than all of the Wii games, XBox 360 games, or PS3 games will make this year.

nonsense

in what fantasyland?

WoW has 8 millions subscribers paying about $14 a month. They sold 2.4 million copies of Burning Crusade in the first day. That's already looking to be 1.34 Billion, and that's if they sell no more games, and get no new subscribers. I would guess it makes over 1.5 billion this year, possibly 2 billion dollars or more.

Do you think any of the new consoles will sell 2 billion dollars worth of games this year?

Xbox 360 has the most consoles out there now, so how much do you think it will sell in games for 2007?

LOL

Combined Video Game sales for Consoles and the PCs in 2006 was 13.5 Billion. PC game Sales accounted for WHOPPING $970 million out of 13.5 billion. Keep in mind these are just the US numbers where the PC market is the healthiest by far. In other countries the PC gaming market is in even worse shape in comparison to the consoles.

Its not even close. Wait till the Wii and PS3 get their installed user base ramped up and get into the heart of their release libraries.
LINK

 

[BladeVenom]

Originally posted by: ZimZum
Combined Video Game sales for Consoles and the PCs in 2006 was 13.5 Billion. PC game Sales accounted for WHOPPING $970 million out of 13.5 billion. Keep in mind these are just the US numbers where the PC market is the healthiest by far. In other countries the PC gaming market is in even worse shape in comparison to the consoles.

You keep missing the point that those NPD numbers are total bullshit. They only count brick and mortar stores, and they don't even get all those. Their methods for determining sales are way outdated, and hence pointless and wrong. Many PC games have changed the way that they are sold.

Originally posted by: ZimZum
Its not even close. Wait till the Wii and PS3 get their installed user base ramped up and get into the heart of their release libraries.

They don't have a big user base yet, that's why I think WoW will make more in game sales (Yes, that includes subscription fees) than any one of new consoles. How much do you think either of those will bring in, in game sales?

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: BladeVenom

Originally posted by: ZimZum
Combined Video Game sales for Consoles and the PCs in 2006 was 13.5 Billion. PC game Sales accounted for WHOPPING $970 million out of 13.5 billion. Keep in mind these are just the US numbers where the PC market is the healthiest by far. In other countries the PC gaming market is in even worse shape in comparison to the consoles.

You keep missing the point that those NPD numbers are total bullshit. They only count brick and mortar stores, and they don't even get all those. Their methods for determining sales are way outdated, and hence pointless and wrong. Many PC games have changed the way that they are sold.

Originally posted by: ZimZum
Its not even close. Wait till the Wii and PS3 get their installed user base ramped up and get into the heart of their release libraries.

They don't have a big user base yet, that's why I think WoW will make more in game sales (Yes, that includes subscription fees) than any one of new consoles. How much do you think either of those will bring in, in game sales?

but your *figures* are much more screwed up

and you neglect the *live* aspect of Console Gaming that also bring in big bucks
:Q

PC Gaming has been in a BIG SLIDE for Years ... WoW and Oblivion being *exceptions* ... ... otoh, the Consoles are in *no danger* ...

i don't think you quite get it

 

[Drayvn]

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: BladeVenom

Originally posted by: ZimZum
Combined Video Game sales for Consoles and the PCs in 2006 was 13.5 Billion. PC game Sales accounted for WHOPPING $970 million out of 13.5 billion. Keep in mind these are just the US numbers where the PC market is the healthiest by far. In other countries the PC gaming market is in even worse shape in comparison to the consoles.

You keep missing the point that those NPD numbers are total bullshit. They only count brick and mortar stores, and they don't even get all those. Their methods for determining sales are way outdated, and hence pointless and wrong. Many PC games have changed the way that they are sold.

Originally posted by: ZimZum
Its not even close. Wait till the Wii and PS3 get their installed user base ramped up and get into the heart of their release libraries.

They don't have a big user base yet, that's why I think WoW will make more in game sales (Yes, that includes subscription fees) than any one of new consoles. How much do you think either of those will bring in, in game sales?

but your *figures* are much more screwed up

and you neglect the *live* aspect of Console Gaming that also bring in big bucks
:Q

PC Gaming has been in a BIG SLIDE for Years ... WoW and Oblivion being *exceptions* ... ... otoh, the Consoles are in *no danger* ...

i don't think you quite get it

You do know that in that 13.5 Billion they include, CONSOLE HARDWARE SALES, and CONSOLE ACESSORY SALES, and CONSOLE SOFTWARE SALES.

But for some reason they only include PC GAMES SALES. So really in fact we should had PC HARDWARE sales in their too, and then it would dwarf the consoles HUGE lead.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Drayvn

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: BladeVenom

Originally posted by: ZimZum
Combined Video Game sales for Consoles and the PCs in 2006 was 13.5 Billion. PC game Sales accounted for WHOPPING $970 million out of 13.5 billion. Keep in mind these are just the US numbers where the PC market is the healthiest by far. In other countries the PC gaming market is in even worse shape in comparison to the consoles.

You keep missing the point that those NPD numbers are total bullshit. They only count brick and mortar stores, and they don't even get all those. Their methods for determining sales are way outdated, and hence pointless and wrong. Many PC games have changed the way that they are sold.

Originally posted by: ZimZum
Its not even close. Wait till the Wii and PS3 get their installed user base ramped up and get into the heart of their release libraries.

They don't have a big user base yet, that's why I think WoW will make more in game sales (Yes, that includes subscription fees) than any one of new consoles. How much do you think either of those will bring in, in game sales?

but your *figures* are much more screwed up

and you neglect the *live* aspect of Console Gaming that also bring in big bucks
:Q

PC Gaming has been in a BIG SLIDE for Years ... WoW and Oblivion being *exceptions* ... ... otoh, the Consoles are in *no danger* ...

i don't think you quite get it

You do know that in that 13.5 Billion they include, CONSOLE HARDWARE SALES, and CONSOLE ACESSORY SALES, and CONSOLE SOFTWARE SALES.

But for some reason they only include PC GAMES SALES. So really in fact we should had PC HARDWARE sales in their too, and then it would dwarf the consoles HUGE lead.

YES i DO ... I actually READ the ARTICLE that was linked

that does NOT excuse the FACT that CONSOLE game sales DWARF pc-game sales

look at the quote again:

Sales of video games and accessories for consoles and portable devices grew to $12.5 billion from $10.5 billion in 2005.

accessories ... NOT all console HW

duh

like light guns ... not whole $600 ps3s
:roll:

 

[ZimZum]

Originally posted by: BladeVenom

Originally posted by: ZimZum
Combined Video Game sales for Consoles and the PCs in 2006 was 13.5 Billion. PC game Sales accounted for WHOPPING $970 million out of 13.5 billion. Keep in mind these are just the US numbers where the PC market is the healthiest by far. In other countries the PC gaming market is in even worse shape in comparison to the consoles.

You keep missing the point that those NPD numbers are total bullshit. They only count brick and mortar stores, and they don't even get all those. Their methods for determining sales are way outdated, and hence pointless and wrong. Many PC games have changed the way that they are sold.

Originally posted by: ZimZum
Its not even close. Wait till the Wii and PS3 get their installed user base ramped up and get into the heart of their release libraries.

They don't have a big user base yet, that's why I think WoW will make more in game sales (Yes, that includes subscription fees) than any one of new consoles. How much do you think either of those will bring in, in game sales?

Sou your thin air made up numbers >>> NPD research numbers???!!!

NPD numbers include all shipped games not just those sold in B&M stores. And if you think there are significant enough "missing" PC sales figures to make up the over 10 billion dollar difference between the consoles and the PC sales figures you are sorely mistaken. There is a reason pretty much every major game developer has switched from PC to consoles as their lead development platform, even ID has switched. Consoles are where the money is.

Gears of War has sold over 3 million copies so far, Halo 3 will likely blow that out of the water along with WOW, and the new GTA will blow all 3 out of the water. To suggest that WOW will gross more than any next gen console in combined game sales is absurd. If that were the case the console in question would be seen as an complete and utter flop.

Xbox360 has an attachment rate of 5.7 software sales per console. That means on average for every Xbox360 MS has sold they have sold 5x as many software titles. With an installed user base of over 10 million thats well over 50 million games sold to date. You cant honestly think that WOW can catch and surpass that.

 

[apoppin]

i guess PC gamers ... strangely ... have problems with simple math

:roll:



consoles sales are destroying PC gaming sales ...

WoW is one of the few *bright spots* and - probably along with Oblivion - managed to reverse the PC *slide* - slightly - for the first time in YEARS.

 

[BladeVenom]

Originally posted by: Drayvn
You do know that in that 13.5 Billion they include, CONSOLE HARDWARE SALES, and CONSOLE ACESSORY SALES, and CONSOLE SOFTWARE SALES.

But for some reason they only include PC GAMES SALES. So really in fact we should had PC HARDWARE sales in their too, and then it would dwarf the consoles HUGE lead.

Very good point!

 

[BladeVenom]

Originally posted by: apoppin
i guess PC gamers ... strangely ... have problems with simple math

You said you were a PC gamer.

Originally posted by: apoppin
i AM a PC gamer ... and do not currently own any console
:heart:

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: BladeVenom

Originally posted by: Drayvn
You do know that in that 13.5 Billion they include, CONSOLE HARDWARE SALES, and CONSOLE ACESSORY SALES, and CONSOLE SOFTWARE SALES.

But for some reason they only include PC GAMES SALES. So really in fact we should had PC HARDWARE sales in their too, and then it would dwarf the consoles HUGE lead.

Very good point!

deBUNKed

it does NOT include ANY Hardware sales
:thumbsdown:

just *accessories* for consoles
[think lightguns]

you are grasping at straws
:Q

you really don't read any responses that don't suit your PoV, do you?
:roll:

Sales of video games and accessories for consoles and portable devices grew to $12.5 billion from $10.5 billion in 2005.

but your *figures* are much more screwed up

and you neglect the *live* aspect of Console Gaming that also bring in big bucks


PC Gaming has been in a BIG SLIDE for Years ... WoW and Oblivion being *exceptions* ... ... otoh, the Consoles are in *no danger* ...

i don't think you quite get it

 

[DeathReborn]

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: Drayvn

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: BladeVenom

Originally posted by: ZimZum
Combined Video Game sales for Consoles and the PCs in 2006 was 13.5 Billion. PC game Sales accounted for WHOPPING $970 million out of 13.5 billion. Keep in mind these are just the US numbers where the PC market is the healthiest by far. In other countries the PC gaming market is in even worse shape in comparison to the consoles.

You keep missing the point that those NPD numbers are total bullshit. They only count brick and mortar stores, and they don't even get all those. Their methods for determining sales are way outdated, and hence pointless and wrong. Many PC games have changed the way that they are sold.

Originally posted by: ZimZum
Its not even close. Wait till the Wii and PS3 get their installed user base ramped up and get into the heart of their release libraries.

They don't have a big user base yet, that's why I think WoW will make more in game sales (Yes, that includes subscription fees) than any one of new consoles. How much do you think either of those will bring in, in game sales?

but your *figures* are much more screwed up

and you neglect the *live* aspect of Console Gaming that also bring in big bucks
:Q

PC Gaming has been in a BIG SLIDE for Years ... WoW and Oblivion being *exceptions* ... ... otoh, the Consoles are in *no danger* ...

i don't think you quite get it

You do know that in that 13.5 Billion they include, CONSOLE HARDWARE SALES, and CONSOLE ACESSORY SALES, and CONSOLE SOFTWARE SALES.

But for some reason they only include PC GAMES SALES. So really in fact we should had PC HARDWARE sales in their too, and then it would dwarf the consoles HUGE lead.

YES i DO ... I actually READ the ARTICLE that was linked

that does NOT excuse the FACT that CONSOLE game sales DWARF pc-game sales

look at the quote again:

Sales of video games and accessories for consoles and portable devices grew to $12.5 billion from $10.5 billion in 2005.

accessories ... NOT all console HW

duh

like light guns ... not whole $600 ps3s
:roll:

Does the PC Sales take into account "Accessories" or does it not? All those keyboards, mice, gamepads, joysticks, sterring wheels, tablets etc would surely add a bit onto the $970 million.

I don't question the consoles would still have a higher total but they should at least make it on equal terms.

 

[apoppin]

but your *figures* are much more screwed up

and you neglect the *live* aspect of Console Gaming that also bring in big bucks


PC Gaming has been in a BIG SLIDE for Years ... WoW and Oblivion being *exceptions* ... ... otoh, the Consoles are in *no danger* ...

i don't think you quite get it

 

[BladeVenom]

Originally posted by: apoppin

and you neglect the *live* aspect of Console Gaming that also bring in big bucks

You mean like neglecting to mention that Microsoft lost $3.8 billion on the first Xbox.
OR

In the quarter, the Entertainment & Devices group reported a loss of $289 million, compared with a loss of $286 million a year earlier.

http://blogs.mercurynews.com/aei/2007/01/microsoft_shave.html

How much money is Sony losing per console sold?

 

[apoppin]

for the sake of your *argument*

DOUBLE *pc Accessories* [make it ridiculously big]

that's STILL less than TWO billion PC to over THIRTEEN billion console

PC gaming is a tiny part of Video games

almost a niche

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: BladeVenom

Originally posted by: apoppin

and you neglect the *live* aspect of Console Gaming that also bring in big bucks

You mean like neglecting to mention that Microsoft lost $3.8 billion on the first Xbox.
OR

In the quarter, the Entertainment & Devices group reported a loss of $289 million, compared with a loss of $286 million a year earlier.

http://blogs.mercurynews.com/aei/2007/01/microsoft_shave.html

How much money is Sony losing per console sold?

*invested* ... not 'lost'

they all look for their investment in HW to pay off on in SW sales --over years ...

same with *live* ... it is a huge investment that will not fail ... over years

and you still fail to *acknowledge* the *FACT* that Console Game Sale *Absolutely Dwarf* PC gaming sales ... in every way

by AT LEAST 10 to 1

even a PC Gaming fanboy such as me can figure that one out

 

[miniMUNCH]

IMO... the video game sales number comparisons are not important.

What is important is whether or not PC gaming is a viable market...well, it is. But now more than ever, PC games have to be really good to make money

And there is big money to be made on a great PC game (WoW).

Personally, I like that market... I only buy 3-5 games a year, if that, so I want awesome games that have a lot of replay value via online play or developer/community added content and mods.

As a post script... the two games that tempt me to buy a xbox360 are gears of war and NCAA football 07.