That's a pretty interesting statistic. I wonder how much of that has to do with the proliferation of computers, etc., that make people more efficient at their jobs and cut the need for extra employees.
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Senate rejects obummer jobs bill
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That's a pretty interesting statistic. I wonder how much of that has to do with the proliferation of computers, etc., that make people more efficient at their jobs and cut the need for extra employees.
Lithium381
Lifer
Thanks Fern . .. VERY enlightening data there. Republicans are trying to make jobs in the Private sector(no cost to the government) whereas the Dems are trying to make jobs in the public sector(at a cost to the government) = more taxes...... why are the senate dems blocking the houses' bills?
Not as hard as the filibuster of the Bill you were busting my balls on?
From the Op's post
Obama's revised plan failed on a 50-50 test vote that fell well short of the 60 needed to break a filibuster. Three Democrats abandoned Obama on the vote and two more who voted with the president said they couldn't support the underlying Obama plan unless it's changed.
I like this line here...
eliminate barriers to private-sector job growth AKA as speculation and pandering to special interest.
You are really reaching on this on Fern.
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That's some of the most dishonest spin I've ever seen, particularly wrt the "govt takeover of the internet" & the whole Boeing NLRB dispute, not to mention the scare tactics wrt cement, & the disregard that upgrades need workers to accomplish them.
It's all special interest pandering of the worst sort.
You know it too.
Righties are always jumping up on their high horse about personal responsibility- how about some corporate responsibility to go along with that?
Fern
Elite Member
I doubt the unemployed people of South Carolina feel they are "special interest" etc.
But TBH I haven't read any of these bills. I don't think there's any point to it. Reid won't let 'em pass in the Senate.
My impression however, is that the Repubs think private sector job creation is hampered by govt regulation and excessive taxation. I don't happen to disagree but I prefer more money to small businesses via the SBA as I have explained before.
In any case, given their apparent philosophy you can expect all the Repub jobs bills to be about regulation or taxation. And they have passed many bills along those lines.
Fern
woolfe9999
Diamond Member
Bills of attainder arguably apply in a civil context as well, including taxation. Another way to look at it is this: if it is directed at named individuals, it isn't actually a "tax." It's a confiscation of property which then requires due process.
xj0hnx
Diamond Member
While I will agree that letting people keep more of their money isn't necessarily going to get them to create jobs, can you please explain how taking more money from them is? Unless you mean more non wealth creating government jobs that are going to require yet even more tax money from the people to maintain.
OneOfTheseDays
Diamond Member
Republicans are not trying to make jobs anywhere. They don't care about the average American.
Their sole purpose is to make sure corporate America gets what it wants. Low taxes, no regulations, etc. They've used social issues (gay rights, abortion, etc.) to fool ordinary Americans into thinking they're a party that actually cares about anything else. They have zero interest in actually overturning Roe v. Wade, because that's one huge wedge issue down the drain.
Their sole purpose is to make sure corporate America gets what it wants. Low taxes, no regulations, etc. They've used social issues (gay rights, abortion, etc.) to fool ordinary Americans into thinking they're a party that actually cares about anything else. They have zero interest in actually overturning Roe v. Wade, because that's one huge wedge issue down the drain.
SamurAchzar
Platinum Member
Psssst, buddy... yea, you there. Who do you think employs all those average Americans the Republicans don't care about?
I'm sure that the Boeing workers in Washington State don't feel like a special interest group, either.
You really should read what you link before doing so, or at least skim large parts. Otherwise, you might give the impression of just un-critically disseminating Repub talking points.
And you really need to acknowledge that taxes are at their lowest point since WW2. It's not like Job Creators let the higher taxes of the Clinton era or even the pre-Reagan era get in their way.
It'd also be constructive to acknowledge the effects of deregulation on airlines, energy and particularly the financial sector, recognize that such hasn't always resulted in the pie in the sky results that proponents have claimed. It's more of a mindless mantra than anything else, at least as it concerns middle class righties.
theeedude
Lifer
Simple, collect taxes, hire someone, job created.
Building infrastructure creates wealth.
Matt1970
Lifer
No, it doesn't. A company that produces a product sold on the open market for a profit creates wealth. Collecting taxes to pay for a road or a bridge just transfers wealth. No added value to the open market beyond what is collected in taxes.
SamurAchzar
Platinum Member
It does create wealth, in a way. It enhances the efficiency of the companies using this infrastructure. Infrastructures are great and surely a prime reason for economical growth.
Sadly, the money the Red Brigade looks to extort from the productive sector of the citizens will not go there but to salaries for government officials and funding of programs for the weak, incapable and irresponsible.
More foreign aid to Israel?
xj0hnx
Diamond Member
You really don't get it, do you?
theeedude
Lifer
Huh? The money would have to be appropriated by the House GOP, so they can damn well decide to use it for infrastructure spending, AS OBAMA HAS REQUESTED. So if anyone is going to extort money from the productive sector and misdirect it, it would have to be the House GOP.
He does get it, he just lacks your talent for being pig headedly obtuse.
sandorski
No Lifer
Lithium381
Lifer
WHile that my work in theory, here's how it will really play out:
Collect taxes, spend it on something else, no job created.
Matt1970
Lifer
Where do you think the Materials for building Roads/Bridges comes from?
Well seeing as how the road isn't sold on the market or held as an asset it is a "dead end road" pun intended. Sure there are plenty of examples of that in the private sector, so don't even bother explaining it.
Reguardless, the first stimulus fell well short of it's goal of keeping unemployment under 8% and "save or creating" 3 million jobs. If you are raising taxes to spend it on infastructure then you are just redirecting money that was already going to get spent to something else. There are a couple things I like in the current bill, but the vast majority of it is stimulus round two that didn't work the first time so why try it again?
1. The Obama Admin admits that they underestimated the severity of the collapse of the ownership society bubble. That's often the case when estimating anything about an event in progress. It's not that the stimulus didn't work, but rather that the hole they were trying to fill was growing faster than they'd considered.
2. Money taken as taxes wasn't necessarily going to be spent at all, at least not in the short term, not in the circumstances of a liquidity trap, which is what we have today.
3. Stimulus round two should be avoided because stimulus round 1 didn't work? False conclusion based on a desire to believe- circular reasoning. Stimulus round 1 did work, just not as well as desired.
umbrella39
Lifer
.. says EVERYTHING we need to know about YOU and your ILK, the GOP/Teahadist Fucks in one word.
LOL about about jobs, yup, pretty sure the voting American public, without their heads resting between some millionaires thighs, knows the GOP could give a rats ass about America, Americans, Or Jobs.
umbrella39
Lifer
Tell that to the MILLIONS of people who pay forced flood insurance every year because they live next to a fucking creek that might flood every 200 years. I had to pay upwards of $800 a year for 15 years before we moved, FHA mandate, creek never so much as once flooded the street much less anyone's home over there. The Army Corps of Engineers were called in to redo the area and guess what, only 10 so houses got removed. We were essentially paying for everyone who DOES build on a real flood zone houses to be destroyed and rebuilt each year.
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Stimulus 1 was based on false assumptions and intended/hoped to kick the can down the road until the can was able to roll on its own. Stimulus 2 is saying that they did not kick the can far enough and try again. A dented can is not going to be able to roll until the can has the dents fixed. Kicking it harder just puts more dents
umbrella39
Lifer
Just look at his friends list for a good reason to ignore this sock puppet. Plonked...
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