Senate rejects obummer jobs bill

[Engineer]

Did anyone consult those who earn more than a million dollar a year before Obama volunteered them to foot the public sector bill? No? Didn't think so either.

So? Nobody ask me if we should go to war with Iraq either. If the "job creators" are not going to create, the increasing number of "sinking" people will get it.....one way or another. Count on it.

 

[fskimospy]

Did anyone consult those who earn more than a million dollar a year before Obama volunteered them to foot the public sector bill? No? Didn't think so either.

Yes, they consulted them. It's called an election.

 

[Jhhnn]

Yes, they consulted them. It's called an election.

Well, yeh, but the leadership of the Right wants a new kind of Democracy, one where you get one vote for every dollar you have...

I mean, it'd work, right?

 

[SamurAchzar]

Considering the effective tax rate (total rate of all taxes vs all income) of the top 1% of earners is at an all time low in this country,

So low, they still pay for 22% of the tax collection?

who fucking cares what they want.

You're right. No one cares about what they want. It's not their property, it's yours. Larry Page has taken his wealth from your family. You have the guns, you can take this money. There's nothing they can or should do about it.

The Republican joke of trickle down and "job creators" has been proven false. Republicans cut taxes on the rich because they were the "job creators". And what'd they do? They got richer while creating no jobs. The top 1% have increased their wealth significantly in the past 10 years while jobs decreased.

You've probably been on another planet than mine when the recession hit everyone very hard. Still USA labor is in much better shape than other parts of the world, especially the crumbling EU countries.

The corporations in this nation are currently sitting on record cash reserves, while not creating jobs. What was the Republican solution to this? Extend the temporary tax breaks because the rich were obviously worried about losing those tax breaks, that's why they're not creating jobs.

Are you seriously suggesting that companies need to become inefficient and hire superfluous workforce just in order to provide jobs? I guess that next you will be complaining about jobs moving to China.

What'd the rich do? Well they continued to stockpile money. When will Republicans learn that not a single thing you've ever done in the history of the planet has worked!

So lets cut the bullshit, how much do you propose they are taxed? 30% of their equity? 40% of their equity? Will the money be directly passed on to you, or passed to the government to reduce your tax liability, or used to buy more public workers? How would you prefer this, sir?

 

[SamurAchzar]

Yes, they consulted them. It's called an election.

Being 1% of the population, their vote doesn't count for much. Do you support the right of the majority to coerce a small group such as this to serve it, by the power of majority alone?

 

[Ausm]

Being 1% of the population, their vote doesn't count for much. Do you support the right of the majority to coerce a small group such as this to serve it, by the power of majority alone?

The Minority is only allowed to rule in the Senate via the Filibuster and in the HOR when the minority are the Teapublicans.

 

[fskimospy]

Being 1% of the population, their vote doesn't count for much. Do you support the right of the majority to coerce a small group such as this to serve it, by the power of majority alone?

Their vote doesn't count for much? Sounds like they have a problem then. Yes, I believe in the Constitution and representative democracy. Under both of these systems we can change tax policy on 1% of the population if enough of the rest support it.

'By the power of majority alone'? Seriously? Of course by the power of majority alone. There is literally nothing that you can't do in the American system of government if you have a sufficiently large majority.

 

[SamurAchzar]

Their vote doesn't count for much? Sounds like they have a problem then. Yes, I believe in the Constitution and representative democracy. Under both of these systems we can change tax policy on 1% of the population if enough of the rest support it.

'By the power of majority alone'? Seriously? Of course by the power of majority alone. There is literally nothing that you can't do in the American system of government if you have a sufficiently large majority.

We do not want to get to a state where the majority can do as it pleases with zero regard to the the freedom and property of the minority, otherwise it won't be much different than 1930's Germany (they had the majority too).

As I said before, impose a flat tax on all income, without any discrimination. Make it as high as you'd like but then it would apply to everyone. No single group will be targeted to carry the burden.

 

[Gonad the Barbarian]

Being 1% of the population, their vote doesn't count for much. Do you support the right of the majority to coerce a small group such as this to serve it, by the power of majority alone?

As if the top 1% has to vote to get their way. Let's just ignore that they control nearly half the wealth in this country. Poor persecuted 1%'ers at the mercy of the majority.

 

[JeffreyLebowski]

Wow that was very informative.

What dangers are you afraid of with the Healthcare bill that could be quelled by some education?

Cap and trade? First embraced and endorsed by the Republicans then Obama jumped on board and now they oppose it lockstep

I don't really follow California's problems but you seem to blame them on Obama too?

You obviously have a selective memory. The Obama Administration admitted that it's so called self sustaining CLASS Act part of the Obamacare was actually not sustainable. Nothing in the proposed Obamacare is self sustaining without massive tax increases on EVERYONE, yet they only want to raise taxes on the "rich". But they keep lowering the bar on what rich is. The Administration started with $250K a year income being rich, then dropped it down to $225K, then $200K and some in the Admin have even recently said $125K. The Obama administration is trying to incite civil unrest and honestly is trying to turn this nation into a 3rd world shit hole because liberals aren't smart enough to see that the lifestyle they live where they are allowed to speak their mind, even as full of crap as it is, is protected because they live in the greatest nation in the world. One that's economic system was fine until politicians messed with it and broke it.

I'm of the mind that all party affiliations should be abolished and candidates just run on their stated goals and accomplishments. No more "party lines" as to many sheep from both sides just vote the party line.

But in the case of the OP link, the GOP didn't vote for it because creating government jobs doesn't help the economy. More effort needs to be put into creating private sector jobs. Private sector jobs help the economy, a better economy means more tax revenue. More tax revenue means the government now have the tax base to hire more teachers, fire fighters, and police.

 

[matt0611]

Their vote doesn't count for much? Sounds like they have a problem then. Yes, I believe in the Constitution and representative democracy. Under both of these systems we can change tax policy on 1% of the population if enough of the rest support it.

'By the power of majority alone'? Seriously? Of course by the power of majority alone. There is literally nothing that you can't do in the American system of government if you have a sufficiently large majority.

So its fine if we all vote to confiscate 99% of all of eskimospy's income.
Cause I mean, hey, we all voted for it, you had your vote, we had ours.
/sarcasm

You think that's a good way for society to run?
That's sickening to me.

 

[JeffreyLebowski]

As if the top 1% has to vote to get their way. Let's just ignore that they control nearly half the wealth in this country. Poor persecuted 1%'ers at the mercy of the majority.

If you want to play majority rules, then why can't the whites just vote to have all the blacks put back on the plantations? It would help our agricultural sector, and help push out the illegals. It would reduce government aid, and since statistically minorities commit more crime than whites, it would reduce crime rates.*

*This isn't meant as a racial attack, just to point out the absurdity of saying the majority group can vote to take rights and property away from minorities.

 

[JeffreyLebowski]

Their vote doesn't count for much? Sounds like they have a problem then. Yes, I believe in the Constitution and representative democracy. Under both of these systems we can change tax policy on 1% of the population if enough of the rest support it.

'By the power of majority alone'? Seriously? Of course by the power of majority alone. There is literally nothing that you can't do in the American system of government if you have a sufficiently large majority.

You do understand that the Majority of Congress is the 1%. Do you really think they will vote to have all their property and money taken away so the lazy 99% can do nothing?

 

[Jaskalas]

The Republican reasons for this are VERY clear.

We hold the government responsible for easy money policies that got us into this mess, for spending too much money and incurring too much debt. We oppose the continued expansion of government and its consumption of the market.

We NEED the market free and healthy, but the government is restricting and attacking it. The government is dependent on the tax revenues of the market, but this parasite has grown large and deadly to its host. We must excise it immediately with all available force.

This is an all out political war to STOP the likes of GWB and Obama from continued government expansion, to save the free market responsible for our great heritage. To not let wolves like you devour it.

Far as we're concerned the continued existence of this country is dependent on stopping you here and now. As I understand it you feel the same way about us. The ONLY non-violent solution is separation. Support state's rights. You will be free to kill your market, and we will be free to keep ours.

 

[Ausm]

You obviously have a selective memory. The Obama Administration admitted that it's so called self sustaining CLASS Act part of the Obamacare was actually not sustainable. Nothing in the proposed Obamacare is self sustaining without massive tax increases on EVERYONE, yet they only want to raise taxes on the "rich". But they keep lowering the bar on what rich is. The Administration started with $250K a year income being rich, then dropped it down to $225K, then $200K and some in the Admin have even recently said $125K. The Obama administration is trying to incite civil unrest and honestly is trying to turn this nation into a 3rd world shit hole because liberals aren't smart enough to see that the lifestyle they live where they are allowed to speak their mind, even as full of crap as it is, is protected because they live in the greatest nation in the world. One that's economic system was fine until politicians messed with it and broke it.

I'm of the mind that all party affiliations should be abolished and candidates just run on their stated goals and accomplishments. No more "party lines" as to many sheep from both sides just vote the party line.

But in the case of the OP link, the GOP didn't vote for it because creating government jobs doesn't help the economy. More effort needs to be put into creating private sector jobs. Private sector jobs help the economy, a better economy means more tax revenue. More tax revenue means the government now have the tax base to hire more teachers, fire fighters, and police.

I checkout your rant and the only reporting I can find on this issue are from extreme Right Wing blogs and Faux noise.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-m...e-bachmann-hits-obama-administration-ending-/

For the second part, If President Obama's Job's bill is so terrible (most of which was previously endorsed by the Right) then why hasnt' the HOR presented a counterbill which will make the Private sector jobs flourish instead of concentrating on Social Engineering?

 

[fskimospy]

We do not want to get to a state where the majority can do as it pleases with zero regard to the the freedom and property of the minority, otherwise it won't be much different than 1930's Germany (they had the majority too).

As I said before, impose a flat tax on all income, without any discrimination. Make it as high as you'd like but then it would apply to everyone. No single group will be targeted to carry the burden.

Ahhh I was waiting for the Nazis to come out! Sorry, but that's not how America or the Constitution works. In America a sufficient majority has ALWAYS had the ability to do as it pleases with zero regard to the freedom and property of the minority.

Always. This has been true not only in America but in every single place on the entirety of planet Earth for the whole of human existence.

 

[fskimospy]

You do understand that the Majority of Congress is the 1%. Do you really think they will vote to have all their property and money taken away so the lazy 99% can do nothing?

What does that have to do with anything I wrote? I wasn't talking about implementing it, simply that our structure of government allows for exactly such a thing to happen.

 

[SamurAchzar]

Ahhh I was waiting for the Nazis to come out! Sorry, but that's not how America or the Constitution works. In America a sufficient majority has ALWAYS had the ability to do as it pleases with zero regard to the freedom and property of the minority.

Always. This has been true not only in America but in every single place on the entirety of planet Earth for the whole of human existence.

I'm not surprised. Welcome to the rule of the 99%.

 

[fskimospy]

I'm not surprised. Welcome to the rule of the 99%.

Why would you be surprised? Didn't you learn about the Constitution in school? I mean what I wrote should be completely obvious to anyone who had a civics 101 class.

 

[SamurAchzar]

Why would you be surprised? Didn't you learn about the Constitution in school? I mean what I wrote should be completely obvious to anyone who had a civics 101 class.

"civics" as in "fascism", right?

 

[fskimospy]

"civics" as in "fascism", right?

No. 'Civics' as in 'understanding what the Constitution says'.

Maybe you just don't like the Constitution, because it's obvious that under the Constitution we can do exactly that if we have a sufficient majority.

 

[thraashman]

So low, they still pay for 22% of the tax collection?

So you agree they're undertaxed as they control over 40% of all wealth and income.

You're right. No one cares about what they want. It's not their property, it's yours. Larry Page has taken his wealth from your family. You have the guns, you can take this money. There's nothing they can or should do about it.

My point was not that they have no rights to property or protection, my point was they are paying a historically and disproportionally low rate

You've probably been on another planet than mine when the recession hit everyone very hard. Still USA labor is in much better shape than other parts of the world, especially the crumbling EU countries.

The recession did hit hard, but hit the middle and low income people bad enough to ruin lives. The top percenters went from being worth $10 billion to $5 billion, sounds like they're so poor now. And the reason the US is in better shape than the EU is that we took larger austerity measures and larger bailouts. Virtually ever economist agrees had the EU done the same they'd be in a better position. In other words, Democrat stimulus combined with unpopular but bipartisan bailouts actually prevented the US from being in a much worse position.

Are you seriously suggesting that companies need to become inefficient and hire superfluous workforce just in order to provide jobs? I guess that next you will be complaining about jobs moving to China.

The problem is that companies have realized that if they scale back and lay off employees, that the Republicans will cut their taxes. Then they can take that money and instead of rehiring employees, just overwork existing ones while lining the pockets of executives. And what are the overworked employees gonna do when they desperately need their jobs? They'll take that shit until the break, all while the rich get richer.

So lets cut the bullshit, how much do you propose they are taxed? 30% of their equity? 40% of their equity? Will the money be directly passed on to you, or passed to the government to reduce your tax liability, or used to buy more public workers? How would you prefer this, sir?

How about we tax them a rate equivalent to the piece of the pie they earn? That would be around 43%. We can then take that money and improve infrastructure, pay teachers (you know those evil people who educate people so that they're smart and thus don't vote Republican), pay firefighters and police, actually take care of our veterans, improve healthcare. There's actually a ton we can do.

 

[sandorski]

Fuck this thread is dumb.

 

[Ausm]

The problem is that companies have realized that if they scale back and lay off employees, that the Republicans will cut their taxes. Then they can take that money and instead of rehiring employees, just overwork existing ones while lining the pockets of executives. And what are the overworked employees gonna do when they desperately need their jobs? They'll take that shit until the break, all while the rich get richer.

Yup this X 100 the people running the Companies have workers by the BALLS and when one of those overworked PEONS drops over there are plenty more to take their place. Also I forgot to add that the overworked PEONS output is exceeding Pre-scale back in a lot of those Companies too.

 

[thraashman]

We hold the government responsible for easy money policies that got us into this mess, for spending too much money and incurring too much debt. We oppose the continued expansion of government and its consumption of the market.

We NEED the market free and healthy, but the government is restricting and attacking it. The government is dependent on the tax revenues of the market, but this parasite has grown large and deadly to its host. We must excise it immediately with all available force.

This is an all out political war to STOP the likes of GWB and Obama from continued government expansion, to save the free market responsible for our great heritage. To not let wolves like you devour it.

Far as we're concerned the continued existence of this country is dependent on stopping you here and now. As I understand it you feel the same way about us. The ONLY non-violent solution is separation. Support state's rights. You will be free to kill your market, and we will be free to keep ours.

Considering that the blue states are self sustaining and pay more federal money than they receive, it's likely they would be the markets to survive as the red states need to be given more federal money than they pay to sustain. Of the top 10 states with the most disproportionate amount of federal money received to paid, 9 are red states. The 10th is a swing state. The simple truth is Republican economic policies fail and history has proven that.

Ahhh I was waiting for the Nazis to come out! Sorry, but that's not how America or the Constitution works. In America a sufficient majority has ALWAYS had the ability to do as it pleases with zero regard to the freedom and property of the minority.

Always. This has been true not only in America but in every single place on the entirety of planet Earth for the whole of human existence.

I disagree. While it's true that through history and even the history of the US, the majority has been able to control the minority without regard to rights, that doesn't make it ok. That logic is the same reason that the right believes it can deny gay people equal marriage rights or force Christianity on the rest of the country and violate separation of church and state. Hell, the psychotically far right supreme court decided to declare money equal to speach so that those with more money can purchase more first amendment rights. Majority rules may be the way it's often done, doesn't make it ok. I just want proportionate rights. The top 1% gets taxed equal to the piece of the pie they get, about 43% currently.