[Semiaccurate] GK104/Kepler/GTX680 Next Week?

[Silverforce11]

It's user expectation thats causing the disappointment actually.

28nm is just more expensive and a new process with lower yields. Expecting massive perf/$ increases is unrealistic at this time point. Maybe when the process matures.

By the time 12nm hits, we can all pay $1,000 for "mid-range" GPUs disguised as high-end.

 

[Lonbjerg]

Performace per watt is important. However, there are more important things like:

- oc headroom
- operating temperatures
- price

If Radeon beats Geforce in any two ^, I'd get them instead.

You left out the most important factor:

Performance.

I don't care about temps when I am gaming...like I don't care for die size..or any other FOTM "metric" being used a red herring instead of performance.

 

[chimaxi83]

Damn... Nvidia took an AMD to the knee.

 

[blackened23]

It's user expectation thats causing the disappointment actually.

28nm is just more expensive and a new process with lower yields. Expecting massive perf/$ increases is unrealistic at this time point. Maybe when the process matures.

No, your voice of reason is not welcome here. AMD is to blame for GK104 and all current high GPU pricing and I believe that the plebians should rise up to fight this vicious corporation.

 

[chimaxi83]

You left out the most important factor:

Performance.

I don't care about temps when I am gaming...like I don't care for die size..or any other FOTM "metric" being used a red herring instead of performance.

100% agree with this. Who the hell doesn't buy a particular card because its die is 12mm² larger?

 

[Arzachel]

OMG the anger? What is up with that?

I'm not angry, I'm amused how many times have the goalposts been moved.

 

[Silverforce11]

I was fully expecting NV to price accordingly to performance and not going into a price-war. Why would they? Low yields with higher wafer costs. Probable low production ramping due to so many companies using 28nm (especially Apple), so supply will be low.

Higher costs, lower supply = expensive product.

If its going to be $550, i see no price pressure on 78xx series which is a shame, as those are a tiny bit overpriced and could use a reduction to be the perfect mid-range.

 

[Keysplayr]

I'm not angry, I'm amused how many times have the goalposts been moved.

Oh? Which ones? And by whom?
::enrapt::

 

[blackened23]

I was fully expecting NV to price accordingly to performance and not going into a price-war. Why would they? Low yields with higher wafer costs. Probable low production ramping due to so many companies using 28nm (especially Apple), so supply will be low.

Higher costs, lower supply = expensive product.

If its going to be $550, i see no price pressure on 78xx series which is a shame, as those are a tiny bit overpriced and could use a reduction to be the perfect mid-range.

Exactly. If there is a wafer shortage prices will be higher. Economics = product shortage + excess demand = higher prices. Of course, I don't expect this to stop a select few from blaming it on someone else.

 

[96Firebird]

Dude, its AMDs fault that nvidia doesn't have GK110/112 released yet. Nvidia decided to sit on GK112 until december because of AMD. I can also unequivocally state that AMD priced the GK104 at 549.99, blame them.

Current oil prices? World hunger? AMDs fault :thumbsup:

And how many times did we hear it's Nvidia's fault that AMD's prices are so high? Because of the premium pricing that the GTX 580 has. Can't have it one way and not the other...

 

[tviceman]

Its AMD's fault that nvidia can't competitively price!

Dude, its AMDs fault that nvidia doesn't have GK110/112 released yet. Nvidia decided to sit on GK112 until december because of AMD. I can also unequivocally state that AMD priced the GK104 at 549.99, blame them.

Current oil prices? World hunger? AMDs fault

AMD is to blame for GK104 and all current high GPU pricing and I believe that the plebians should rise up to fight this vicious corporation.

Dude, seriously move on. Everyone heard you the first, second, no wait, third time. Oh shoot, sorry 4 times.

 

[Keysplayr]

Exactly. If there is a wafer shortage prices will be higher. Economics = product shortage + excess demand = higher prices. Of course, I don't expect this to stop a select few from blaming it on someone else.

As long as there isn't anyone blaming you for it, I wouldn't
worry about it so much.

 

[blckgrffn]

As long as there isn't anyone blaming you for it, I wouldn't
worry about it so much.

Wait.

What?

What are you saying?

IT'S BLACKENEDS FAULT!!! HE IS WHY WE CAN'T HAVE NICE (CHEAP) THINGS!!!

/grabs pitchfork, lights torch, begins yelling loudly, redirects angry stampede in blackened23's general direction

 

[Keysplayr]

Wait.

What?

What are you saying?

IT'S BLACKENEDS FAULT!!! HE IS WHY WE CAN'T HAVE NICE (CHEAP) THINGS!!!

/grabs pitchfork, lights torch, begins yelling loudly, redirects angry stampede in blackened23's general direction

Lol. Hey but give him a break. He is getting beaten up on enough as it is.

 

[blackened23]

Wait.

What?

What are you saying?

IT'S BLACKENEDS FAULT!!! HE IS WHY WE CAN'T HAVE NICE (CHEAP) THINGS!!!

/grabs pitchfork, lights torch, begins yelling loudly, redirects angry stampede in blackened23's general direction

Sorry guys, gotta pay the bills somehow

 

[pappsw]

This is my first post, as I respect anandtech, and am tired of the trolls and BS going on, so had to post here.

Ok, so to all the nay sayers, seriously give it up, especially the red team(buyers regret? I work in sales, not for Nvidia, but for a telco in Australia)!

Buy the card that's right for YOU...

For me, I got a refurb ebay Alienware Aurora (cheap, not much more than putting my components together myself and with pretty lights!), and currently play for the red team with 2 x 5770's in cf. I have to say I have enjoyed them, cf driver issues aside, and have had both AMD and Nvidia cards before.

This card is RIGHT for ME and I am champing at the bit and I'll tell you why:

1- I want a '3D Vision' solution- AMD has a really bad third party mess, Nvidia's is out of the box. And I have the 120hz monitor ready to go.
2- Anyone who knows anything about Alienware machines knows they are not the best with heat (PCI slots very close, fans/cooling not what cracked up to be but hey I like the brand/look) and max PSU (or with my model) is 875W.
3- I want a decent 1 GPU solution (less driver issues) that maybe I can add to down the track with SLI (AMD CF has caused no end of headaches, stable ATM but not game to change from my current drivers....)
4- Physx- yeah not on lots of titles but what does AMD have to counter, and no I don't want to miss out on the titles that have it.

So for ME, based on current 'specs'/speculation...

1- I get my easy 3d vision solution (salivating!)
2- Low heat/low power is perfect for my rig, 2 x 580's = Too hot+ >power
3- From all accounts, even though maybe the '680' has been dropped down from their other higher chipsets because AMD is not that fast/competitive (maybe??) it still is better performance (maybe??) than AMD's best 1 GPU card and better than current gen Nvidia (so trying hard not to buy right now). And I can add to it no worries with heat/power consumption when the need arises in SLI, so my rig will last longer before I need to upgrade the whole thing.
4- Physx, nice to have, and less strain on the CPU.

Probably more benefits too, but the above are key for MY situation.

So, for ME, with MY needs/criteria, this is the ticket... is it for YOU? Well it's your money pal and your needs, you decide. But don't carry on like a pork chop if you have bought the latest AMD, either live with it or sell it and buy one of these, and stop whinging.

ME- I cannot wait until its out, I am checking forums way too often and will buy the second its available, my wife can't wait until I do and shut up about it.... Nvidia please give us more detail and launch SOON!

My Rig:

Alienware Aurora|i7 920 OC @ 4GHZ(stable/cool)|12GB G.Skill Snipers 1600 CL9@CL8 Triple Channel|NVidia GTX 680 (ASAP!)|256MB Crucial C4 SSD- OS games progs|500 MB Barracuda 7200 + 1TB NAS - storage|Alienware AW2310 120HZ monitor|NVidia 3D Vision 2(will buy with the 680)|Alienware Gaming K/B + Mouse|DVD + Bluray drives|Edifier 2.1 Optical spkrs S330D-B (check these out, they are AWESOME for 2.1)|

 

[tviceman]

I was fully expecting NV to price accordingly to performance and not going into a price-war. Why would they? Low yields with higher wafer costs. Probable low production ramping due to so many companies using 28nm (especially Apple), so supply will be low.

Higher costs, lower supply = expensive product.

If its going to be $550, i see no price pressure on 78xx series which is a shame, as those are a tiny bit overpriced and could use a reduction to be the perfect mid-range.

I've asked this question either in this thread or the other Kepler gtx680 thread, but what exactly is Apple making at TSMC? A5 is being made by samsung, isn't a5x being made at the same location? If so, what other chip is Apple making on their own? EDIT: http://www.slashgear.com/samsung-keeps-apple-a6-contract-despite-tsmc-bid-says-exec-17188381/ This is the most recent article I could find on anything with Apple and TSMC, and it says Apple is NOT using TSMC.

EDIT: A more recent article, but from the same source: http://www.slashgear.com/tsmc-starts-28nm-production-nvidia-amd-in-but-apple-absent-24190338/ I don't think Apple is using TSMC for anything. The only 3 companies I know of that are using 28nm at TSMC are Nvidia, AMD, and Qualcomm.

 

[Arzachel]

Oh? Which ones? And by whom?
::enrapt::

Oh, don't be mistaken, I know that Nvidia hasn't released anything official (not counting the plastic bags ). As fanboys get hyped, expectations grow until they exceed anything resembling reason. When, and it's always "when" instead of "if", the product fails to be impossibly good, they think up excuses (It's midrange! AMD did it!) to cover up their mistakes. The backpedaling is fun to watch.

I expect Nvidia to release a decent competitor to the 7870, so I can get more for less when I'll upgrade in the summer.

 

[SirPauly]

Looking forward to hearing all the whiners who complained about the 7970's pricing complaining about the 680's pricing as well. If all pans out as we are hearing this card will be less of an increase over the 580 than the 7970 was over the 6970 for the same price range.

One may imagine the same people should be complaining constantly about pricing on the 680. :sneaky:

For me , will be just as consistent. Garnering premiums for incremental gains considering it is a substantial and significant node and arch change is not something to strongly defend to me. It effects pricing top to bottom; as members of the family suffer from incremental performance gains compared to 40nm instead of redefined performance/value.

It is what it is though and consumers may have to deal with it.

 

[Arzachel]

*post*

Not sure what you're expecting, seems like you've made up your mind before seeing the product. Good luck and have fun with your upcoming upgrade I guess?

Just a fyi, Nvidia has it's own share of driver problems, but I find that their control center has a better user interface.

 

[n0x1ous]

speaking of driver problems. How is the HD 7xxx series with CF? It sucked with the 5xxx series, then was awesome with the 6xxx series...

7970 or 7950 CF owners?

 

[Magic Carpet]

Operating temperatures (and noise) are partially affected by the TDP. Given identical coolers, the card with the lower TDP will run cooler, or run at the same temperature while being quieter.

Generally true. Albeit, GF104 whilst much more power hungry ran significantly cooler its Radeon counterparts.

This is one area where the 7970 fails – it uses much less power than previous generation cards but it’s substantially nosier. That’s a failure to properly balance the cooling design to take advantage of the new architecture.

ASUS Radeon HD 7970 DirectCU II TOP runs much cooler and quieter.

As for price, it looks like the GTX680 will be about the same as the 7970.

If it costs the same as the 7970 while using less power and performing the same, nVidia will have a winner on their hands. Some people can’t see such a basic fact.

If that's the case, it will then be a better buy. I have to admit though, that AMD-like acting doesn't help here. Let's wait and see

 

[n0x1ous]

Im really interested in learning about the architecture. If GK104 really has 1536 sharders (3 x GF110) then the shaders must be very different (less powerful individually) then previous Nvidia architectures.

 

[ShadowOfMyself]

And how many times did we hear it's Nvidia's fault that AMD's prices are so high? Because of the premium pricing that the GTX 580 has. Can't have it one way and not the other...

Horrible comparison... the GTX 580 was a nonsense card when you could get a 6970 for almost 200$ less, with 90% of the performance (unless you want the absolute best, in which case the price is irrelevant anyway)

Then the 7970 comes along, beats the 580 by more than 10%, and costs basically the same, and ZOMG, AMD MUST BE PUNISHED

Seriously? You cant see the difference here? Luckily for us, AMD will definitely lower the prices right away if Kepler is any sort of competition, because thats what they do

Its just hilarious how some fanboys here actually expected Kepler to deliver better performance for less... Its NEVER happened in the history of Nvidia high end cards and it never will, as long as JHH is the CEO at least

 

[tviceman]

Im really interested in learning about the architecture. If GK104 really has 1536 sharders (3 x GF110) then the shaders must be very different (less powerful individually) then previous Nvidia architectures.

This is definitely very plausible (and likely, IMO) but I also read of another theory/explanation and it was gk104 is physically 768 cores, but with new logic that feeds cores in a manner more frequently than with Fermi. i.e. if some cores finish their execution before others, then the chip is able to continue feeding the under-utilized cores. I really don't think that is the case, but I'm just throwing it out there.