Seattle autonomous zone

[Starbuck1975]

Either there have been reasonable and legitimate attempts to fix the problem, which have not worked, in which case the protesters are doing the right thing;

If that is the case, then the people of Seattle have only their local elected government to blame.

There have not been reasonable and legitimate attempts to fix the problem, in which case the protesters are even more in the right.

So an even bigger failing of local government

This has been a known problem that has been a major concern since at least 1992, it seems like if they want to get anything done they are going to have to make a fuss about it.

Yes it has

And it's not interesting that you would tell lies again. This 'anarchist commune' was started by protesters who were being beaten and tear gassed by police who wanted to suppress the protesters' speech. But you already knew that, of course.

Yep, and because of criminal, selfish fringe and anarchist elements, their utopia devolved to the extent that it required a police response. The post mortem on CHOP is an interesting read, and its demise is due entirely to the disjointed elements it attracted.

I wouldn’t expect you to acknowledge that, of course

 

[SMOGZINN]

If that is the case, then the people of Seattle have only their local elected government to blame.

While I agree in general, I would also point out that this problem is not isolated to Seattle.

The elected officals are to blame, as are the people that keep electing those officials. I guess that is why these protests are needed, why people have to be inconvenienced. To show the people that keep voting for those officials that there will be consequences if there isn't change. People rarely change until not doing so is more painful then the work it takes to change.

Yep, and because of criminal, selfish fringe and anarchist elements, their utopia devolved to the extent that it required a police response. The post mortem on CHOP is an interesting read, and its demise is due entirely to the disjointed elements it attracted.

I know this was not stated towards me, but I would like to say that I don't think anyone expected that anarchy was going to be an effective form of government. It was a protest not a serious attempt at setting up an independent state. The name was a creative statement. It was intended to show their discontent with the current leadership. Is was saying that not having any leadership is better then what we currently have. No one expected that to actually be true, it was just to make a point.

 

[Vic]

If that is the case, then the people of Seattle have only their local elected government to blame.


So an even bigger failing of local government

Yes it has
Yep, and because of criminal, selfish fringe and anarchist elements, their utopia devolved to the extent that it required a police response. The post mortem on CHOP is an interesting read, and its demise is due entirely to the disjointed elements it attracted.

I wouldn’t expect you to acknowledge that, of course

Nor do I expect you to acknowledge that a law enforcement agency might become so disrespectful of the law that the people no longer believe in its legitimacy to enforce the law. That kind of shit is just above your ethical understanding.

 

[Starbuck1975]

Nor do I expect you to acknowledge that a law enforcement agency might become so disrespectful of the law that the people no longer believe in its legitimacy to enforce the law. That kind of shit is just above your ethical understanding.

Which is why businesses and residents demanded that said law enforcement agency return. Ethics doesn’t play into it. This is common sense, hence your struggle with it.

 

[allisolm]

Is there some reason you didn't want to say it was a black guy? It's ok to say that, it's also ok to assume that black guys stuck in traffic because of protesters get pissed off just like white guys. I'll go ahead and add that this could well have been an accident.

You could not have read about this event or watched the video and still said that.

He entered a section of the freeway that had been closed for many days for the protesters by going the wrong way on an exit ramp. He then drove at high speed down the empty freeway, drove onto the shoulder where the protesters were, smashed into the 2 and drove off - all still at high speed.

 

[darkswordsman17]

You could not have read about this event or watched the video and still said that.

He entered a section of the freeway that had been closed for many days for the protesters by going the wrong way on an exit ramp. He then drove at high speed down the empty freeway, drove onto the shoulder where the protesters were, smashed into the 2 and drove off - all still at high speed.

I don't know what the person you're responding to claimed so its possible its incredibly stupid. But I don't think its quite as you say either.

There were vehicles on the freeway that he had to drive around. There's been some claim that he might have been trying to have a joyride on an empty freeway, saw cars blocking, so swerved to go around but was carrying so much speed he couldn't stop in time to avoid the people. I don't know that they've established anything with regards to motive yet. Its definitely possible that it was intentional and to cause harm. He didn't really drive away immediately though, as after he hit them the car kinda rolled, so it wasn't like he hit them, then immediately floored it to get away, and the police that arrested him said he was in a state almost of shock or something (which doesn't mean he might not have had intent, but it sounded more like he just fucked up horribly badly; but then its all based on impressions of the police arresting him). Its a weird situation, it being a black man that hit people doing BLM protesting. Initially I saw some article claimed the two people hit were transgender but I think they're just non-binary (or go by non-binary, them/they), so one might have thought it could be related to that.

 

[allisolm]

I don't know what the person you're responding to claimed so its possible its incredibly stupid. But I don't think its quite as you say either.

There were vehicles on the freeway that he had to drive around. There's been some claim that he might have been trying to have a joyride on an empty freeway, saw cars blocking, so swerved to go around but was carrying so much speed he couldn't stop in time to avoid the people. I don't know that they've established anything with regards to motive yet. Its definitely possible that it was intentional and to cause harm. He didn't really drive away immediately though, as after he hit them the car kinda rolled, so it wasn't like he hit them, then immediately floored it to get away, and the police that arrested him said he was in a state almost of shock or something (which doesn't mean he might not have had intent, but it sounded more like he just fucked up horribly badly; but then its all based on impressions of the police arresting him). Its a weird situation, it being a black man that hit people doing BLM protesting. Initially I saw some article claimed the two people hit were transgender but I think they're just non-binary (or go by non-binary, them/they), so one might have thought it could be related to that.

Do I think he entered the freeway in order to run over protesters? No. Do I think he deliberately went up an exit ramp to enter a closed freeway? Yes. Do I think he deliberately drove very fast on that closed highway? Yes. Do I think he failed to slow down when he saw vehicles blocking the highway and drove at high speed on the shoulder? Yes. Do I think he drove off after hitting them? Yes. Do I believe he was in a state of shock or something when arrested? Could be. Do I care about how he felt after he drove off leaving 2 people crumpled in the road? Not. One. Tiny. Bit.

 

[Greenman]

You could not have read about this event or watched the video and still said that.

He entered a section of the freeway that had been closed for many days for the protesters by going the wrong way on an exit ramp. He then drove at high speed down the empty freeway, drove onto the shoulder where the protesters were, smashed into the 2 and drove off - all still at high speed.

I don't know what the guy was thinking, or the entire chain of events. So yes, it could be that he had no intention of harming anyone. I don't believe that, but it's possible.

 

[Starbuck1975]

Do I think he entered the freeway in order to run over protesters? No. Do I think he deliberately went up an exit ramp to enter a closed freeway? Yes. Do I think he deliberately drove very fast on that closed highway? Yes. Do I think he failed to slow down when he saw vehicles blocking the highway and drove at high speed on the shoulder? Yes. Do I think he drove off after hitting them? Yes. Do I believe he was in a state of shock or something when arrested? Could be. Do I care about how he felt after he drove off leaving 2 people crumpled in the road? Not. One. Tiny. Bit.

Is a freeway an intelligent place to hold a rally late at night without adequate police protection? Nope. There is a reason why late night road work has such extensive lighting and a police presence. Drunk and irresponsible drivers are a threat late at night even when there aren’t people on the freeway.

 

[allisolm]

And the driver has been charged with vehicular homicide, vehicular assault and reckless driving with the possibility of additional charges later. If he wants out of jail, his bail is $1.2 million.

According to the article below and others he admits to a Percocet addiction and had something that "appears similar to crystal methamphetamine" in his car.

Driver charged in fatal hit-and-run at Seattle Black Lives Matter protest

A 27-year-old man arrested on suspicion of barreling into a Black Lives Matter protest on a closed Seattle freeway was charged Wednesday with vehicular homicide.

abcnews.go.com

 

[Greenman]

Is a freeway an intelligent place to hold a rally late at night without adequate police protection? Nope. There is a reason why late night road work has such extensive lighting and a police presence. Drunk and irresponsible drivers are a threat late at night even when there aren’t people on the freeway.

This is spot on. Protesting by standing in the middle of the freeway at night strikes me as being world class stupid. I guess it worked in that they received a lot of attention, but the young woman that died paid a very high price for it.

 

[brycejones]

This is spot on. Protesting by standing in the middle of the freeway at night strikes me as being world class stupid. I guess it worked in that they received a lot of attention, but the young woman that died paid a very high price for it.

Its fucking horse shit is what it is. The freeway was already closed. You and starbuck need to stop being dishonest about this incident.

 

[hal2kilo]

Sorry, this tactic is one of the most stupid ones, which literally risks life and limb. The cherry on top is that it pisses EVERYBODY off!
This was bound to happen being random and almost nightly without notice on several occasions.
Sorry, not going to fall in line.

 

[Vic]

This is spot on. Protesting by standing in the middle of the freeway at night strikes me as being world class stupid. I guess it worked in that they received a lot of attention, but the young woman that died paid a very high price for it.

The other day a clueless pedestrian talking on his phone stepped in front of my car. And as I quickly took evasive action to avoid hitting another human being with my vehicle, it never once occurred to me that I could use the fact the he was 'world class stupid' to get away with hitting him on purpose. Mostly because I would never want to hit anyone, not even on accident, but also because intentionally hitting someone with a vehicle is a crime.

You and the poster you quoted should stop pretending you care about law and order, or about people's lives, while you apologize so profusely for a blatantly criminal act that resulted in someone's death.

 

[Starbuck1975]

Its fucking horse shit is what it is. The freeway was already closed. You and starbuck need to stop being dishonest about this incident.

You’ve clearly never had to deal with the physical risks of doing roadwork late at night. If the freeway was adequately closed, this wouldn’t have been an incident.

Also, this wasn’t some Trumper deliberately targeting a political rally. It was a bunch of kids who thought it was a good idea to camp out on a freeway without adequate lighting or police protection, and got hit by the type of irresponsible drivers that tend to be on the road late at night.

The only horseshit is the copious amount in your buckets.

 

[brycejones]

The other day a clueless pedestrian talking on his phone stepped in front of my car. And as I quickly took evasive action to avoid hitting another human being with my vehicle, it never once occurred to me that I could use the fact the he was 'world class stupid' to get away with hitting him on purpose. Mostly because I would never want to hit anyone, not even on accident, but also because intentionally hitting someone with a vehicle is a crime.

You and the poster you quoted should stop pretending you care about law and order, or about people's lives, while you apologize so profusely for a blatantly criminal act that resulted in someone's death.

It’s even worse then that they are blaming the protesters for being on a closed highway.

 

[Starbuck1975]

The other day a clueless pedestrian talking on his phone stepped in front of my car. And as I quickly took evasive action to avoid hitting another human being with my vehicle, it never once occurred to me that I could use the fact the he was 'world class stupid' to get away with hitting him on purpose. Mostly because I would never want to hit anyone, not even on accident, but also because intentionally hitting someone with a vehicle is a crime.

You and the poster you quoted should stop pretending you care about law and order, or about people's lives, while you apologize so profusely for a blatantly criminal act that resulted in someone's death.

There is no indication the driver intentionally struck the pedestrians who shouldn’t have been on the freeway to begin with without adequate lighting and police protection.

You’re welcome to point out where we defended the driver. What the driver did was irresponsible. So is what the protestors were doing. It resulted in death and injury.

 

[shortylickens]

Its fucking horse shit is what it is. The freeway was already closed. You and starbuck need to stop being dishonest about this incident.

why dont you go and do a survey on every road in America thats "closed" and come back with a number of how many had cars on them.
I bet it about 90 percent. And I haven't even conducted a survey.

 

[brycejones]

why dont you go and do a survey on every road in America thats "closed" and come back with a number of how many had cars on them.
I bet it about 90 percent. And I haven't even conducted a survey.

The asshat involved had to go the wrong way up an exit ramp to get on the highway. It was fucking closed, the protesters have absolutely 0 fault in this case. That this even has to be said is disgusting. Are you looking to join the Starbuck, Greenman victim blaming party?

 

[Vic]

There is no indication the driver intentionally struck the pedestrians who shouldn’t have been on the freeway to begin with without adequate lighting and police protection.

You’re welcome to point out where we defended the driver. What the driver did was irresponsible. So is what the protestors were doing. It resulted in death and injury.

What the driver did was not 'irresponsible,' it was criminal. Which is why he has been charged with vehicular homicide.

 

[Starbuck1975]

The asshat involved had to go the wrong way up an exit ramp to get on the highway. It was fucking closed, the protesters have absolutely 0 fault in this case. That this even has to be said is disgusting. Are you looking to join the Starbuck, Greenman victim blaming party?

A few vehicles parked on the freeway does not constitute a closed freeway. There is not a cop car or siren in sight, which is why the protestors were hit.

 

[Starbuck1975]

What the driver did was not 'irresponsible,' it was criminal. Which is why he has been charged with vehicular homicide.

Still doesn’t change the fact that a freeway isn’t the appropriate place for a protest without adequate lighting and police protection.

 

[hal2kilo]

why dont you go and do a survey on every road in America thats "closed" and come back with a number of how many had cars on them.
I bet it about 90 percent. And I haven't even conducted a survey.

If you've ever lived in Connecticut, there's signage all over the place that says "This road is legally closed" . That was back in the 80's when I lived there. Some kind of get out of jail card for the country or state. Not sure how it could ever legally stand up.

 

[Vic]

A few vehicles parked on the freeway does not constitute a closed freeway. There is not a cop car or siren in sight, which is why the protestors were hit.

No, the protesters were hit because a driver committed the criminal act of deliberately hitting them. It's weird how you don't seem to have a problem with that, but yet some protesters' speech hurts your ears so much that you blame them for being murdered.

 

[Vic]

Still doesn’t change the fact that a freeway isn’t the appropriate place for a protest without adequate lighting and police protection.

Still doesn't the fact that you're telling lies to defend a murder. It's not at all appropriate, but I'm sure you do that all the time.