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Scott Walker ‘punts’ on evolution question

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Retro Rob said:
I think this was mentioned, but that kind of shows that you don't understand it, and if you don't understand it, believing it doesn't make you anymore a critical thinker that theists.

I think most people don't understand it, but if science says its true, then it's true -- that's the position I've seen people take 7/10 times.
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How so? I don't design, manufacture or service automobiles yet I understand the basic concepts of how they work. Couldn't tell you a thing about transmission gear ratios but I accept that they work based on past and current driving experiences.

I accept that gravity is factual which is why I don't step off ledges greater than 1' in height.

One doesn't need to be a molecular biologist to understand and/or accept evolution in a "big picture" way.

Like I said to JD50, I choose words carefully to convey my meaning, so that people who play word usage games have a harder time misconstruing what I said.
 
Doc Savage Fan said:
And I never said that you said all Theists are creationists...NEVER. If anyone is confused here, I think it might be you.
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I said that if someone believes that god created humans then they don't believe in evolution. Somehow you thought I said that if someone believes in God then they don't believe in evolution. How else would you come to that conclusion if you didn't think I was saying that all Theists are creationists? These are your words

You've already stated that believing in God implies that one doesn't believe in evolution
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"believing in God" = Theist
"doesn't believe in evolution" = creationist

And now you're speculating that Walker really doesn't believe in science even though he clearly said so two days ago? I see no sense in continuing at this point as it's now quite apparent that your imagination is much more persuasive than Scott Walker's actual words or I could ever hope to be.
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I said those two statements conflict, and they do. If you "believe in science" then you "believe in evolution." If you say that you believe that God created humans that tells me that you don't believe in evolution.

Specifically, he said "Both science and my faith dictate my belief that we are created by God." What science is he talking about? It certainly isn't evolution.
 
emperus said:
Just playing contrarian, but it is possible to choose to believe or not believe in something that is established fact.
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Something being "fact" is only "fact" by those accepting it as so. An established fact would be something held true by the majority of people, but an individual can still choose not to accept it.
 
I believe in God, though not any god with a name and I believe in evolution. I believe that evolution produced human beings and that it created us in such a fashion that we believe in God naturally. I believe, therefore, that the notion that there is a God is a given wherever the capacity of empathy emerges. God is an inherent property of the universe and manifests as God Consciousness. Evolution does not have a goal but it always leads to love. Love is surrender and it adapts to anything.
 
emperus said:
Where did Walker say he believes in evolution?
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Good question.

Edit - Actually, if we're going by this quote in the OP "Both science and my faith dictate my belief that we are created by God", that sounds like a Ken Ham creationist.
 
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Doc Savage Fan said:
Are you saying that one can believe in science without believing in evolution? Really?
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Yes he can. Notice the statement he put out. He parses it. Nowhere does he speak about evolution but throws in Science instead. The statement was meant to fool the ignorant into either believing he does believe in Evolution (Science) or he doesn't believe in Evolution(since he Believes in God and for a lot of Christians both are mutually exclusive) but that he definitely believes in God.

I guess he got you.
 
emperus said:
Yes he can. Notice the statement he put out. He parses it. Nowhere does he speak about evolution but throws in Science instead. The statement was meant to fool the ignorant into either believing he does believe in Evolution (Science) or he doesn't believe in Evolution(since he Believes in God and for a lot of Christians both are mutually exclusive) but that he definitely believes in God.

I guess he got you.
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If anyone is parsing his words it's you. I've got $50 that says he'll plainly say that he believes in evolution prior to the 2016 election. Bet?
 
Just thought I'd throw this in here while democrats bask in the glory of the "I fucking love science" mantle:

Capture.jpg


http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=2395697
 
eskimospy said:
The crosstabs for that are very interesting. The more conservative you become as a Democrat, the more likely you are to believe in astrology but for a Republican it is the opposite.
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I thought that was weird too. The dynamic occurs again on a separate question later in the same paper. Perhaps it can be explained by religious belief conflicting with belief in astrology.

It's not just astrology though. Obama himself pondered the connection between autism and vaccines, as RFK Jr did before him. I'm pretty sure alternative medicine and homeopathy are more likely to be supported by democrats than republicans.

These stupid arguments over scientific and ideological purity are...stupid.
 
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Doc Savage Fan said:
If anyone is parsing his words it's you. I've got $50 that says he'll plainly say that he believes in evolution prior to the 2016 election. Bet?
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Let's just make it easy. He was asked if he believed in evolution. He put out a statement in response to that question. Quote me the line where he explicitly says he believes in evolution. That would be easy being that was the explicit question he was asked, right?

Any quote that relies on your believe of an implicit endorsement of his believe in evolution is in fact you parsing his words.

I'll be waiting...
 
Doc Savage Fan said:
I'm assuming nothing about which way you lean politically as I'm speaking directly to the content of your post. My point was directed at the rationale you used to denigrate Scott Walker on this particular issue. Surely you know that there are legitimate arguments for/against casinos that go well beyond jobs. In Walker's opinion, the negatives outweighed the positives. This is not about hypocrisy as you have framed this. It's more about him approaching a complex issue rationally and making decisions as to what he feels is best for the State. You may not agree with his decision, but that doesn't make him a hypocrite for coming to a conclusion on an issue that you personally don't happen to agree with.
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Well said. Personally I disagree with you and Walker on this issue, but your analysis is spot-on. It isn't an open and shut question, but rather relative weighting of individual liberty versus societal damage.

alzan said:
You posted some things that an insignificant number of politicians have done or have attempted to do. Politicians on all sides propose and/or attempt to pass legislation that not everyone on "in their camp" or on the other sides has agreed is a solution. It will always be this way until ordinary citizens have either the means or the exact same influence corporate and special interest lobbyists enjoy.

Quality education and due diligence in all societal and political issues is what's needed to keep legislators and individuals in check.
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Yes, an insignificant number of politicians in the same fashion as an insignificant number of politicians are pushing to ban teaching evolution in school. That doesn't mean that insignificant number of politicians doesn't have a significant effect on those in their power.

In any case, let's not forget that in my statement I was actually defending the left by pointing out their pet causes have the exact same trade-offs between societal evils and individual liberty as do more traditionally right causes such as banning gambling. In my opinion that's just as important as recognizing that on any non-trivial issue there is some cross-pollination between mostly left and mostly right, since most people are complex critters. Far too often we represent our side as flawed saints and the other side as Spandex-clad villains dry-washing their hands in between petting somnolent Persian kitties.

dank69 said:
I highly doubt Walker doesn't believe in evolution. He just knows that saying he does believe in evolution will hurt him in the primaries.
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Exactly. But aren't you really, really tired of politicians whose every statement is gamed to not offend any voters? Isn't that just as bad as reporters playing gotcha games to boost their own ideology?

Obama is NOT my guy. I love America and thus did not wish to see her fundamentally transformed, and I fundamentally disagree with probably 3/4 of what Obama wants to do. But it was truly refreshing to see how candid he was about his true agenda, even if most people read into it what they wanted to hear.
 
Doc Savage Fan said:
WRONG. This is the root of your ignorance.
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Kind of surprising to hear him say that, UNLESS he has his own definition of "created".

The term is "theistic evolution", which holds that God jump started evolution and guided it, so it can be said that God "created" humans if one holds that position.
 
You can always twist and turn theology to make it align with science. If you take that point of view then religious people should be extremely interested in science because it unlocks the true meaning of the bible.
 
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