"Science is liberal and anti-American." (Conservapedia)

[buckshot24]

Well, for me, God has many names. One of them is Justice. Justice excludes injustice in it's range of actions and is inclusive of what is just. We know that justice is blind and what it is blind to is personal interest, desires that spring from the ego. In this way the knowledge of God can't be given to those with ego and can't be kept from those who have none, as this is the nature of justice, inclusive in its exclusiveness. It isn't the nature of what religion you believe in, but the state of your heart that counts. Justice is another word for love, another word for God. Love is also a fire that burns ego away.

This is all your opinion. Why should anybody believe it?

 

[buckshot24]

Well how about you are walking to work with a tuna sandwich for lunch and I am walking to the same place with a Turkey melt and we see a starving child. God tells you to give her a tuna sandwich and he tells me to make it turkey?

That isn't a contradiction.

 

[ivwshane]

Well, nothing against G-d but Schroedinger had one hell of a cat. Just sayin', that cat sets a high bar.

And conservapedia is totally a satire site. Perhaps its original intent was other and it became a satirical site accidentally, but now it's nothing but lefties poking fun.

No it's not satire and saying it is a satire site doesn't make it any more true than trump saying people in new Jersey celebrated when the towers fell because he has a really good memory.

You'd like it to be a satire site because even you can't believe people are that stupid.

 

[dank69]

Where do you get that idea from?
Do you notice how I worded it? They cannot both be true doesn't mean one of them has to be true.

If you are determined to get technical, you can deceive without lying.

 

[fskimospy]

Well, nothing against G-d but Schroedinger had one hell of a cat. Just sayin', that cat sets a high bar.

And conservapedia is totally a satire site. Perhaps its original intent was other and it became a satirical site accidentally, but now it's nothing but lefties poking fun.

Its original intent is definitely not as a satire site and the guy who runs it (Andrew Schlafly) is a certifiable nutcase. As of last time I checked he's in the process of rewriting the bible to remove all the supposed 'liberal bias'.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservapedia#Conservative_Bible_Project

 

[buckshot24]

If you are determined to get technical, you can deceive without lying.

Give an example and I'll show you why you're wrong.

 

[JEDIYoda]

Is this really necessary? I don't get your hatred at all.

hatred?? I thought the Op was being honest!

 

[Atreus21]

It's hard to believe it's not satire. It reads exactly as if leftists were caricaturing conservative positions.

 

[buckshot24]

hatred?? I thought the Op was being honest!

I was quoting that Shane guy.

 

[ivwshane]

It's hard to believe it's not satire. It reads exactly as if leftists were caricaturing conservative positions.

That's because that's exactly how stupid righties are. I'm glad you are starting to see what non right wingers see, the right is a bunch of crazy fucking idiots.

 

[mikeymikec]

nvm

 

[realibrad]

Give an example and I'll show you why you're wrong.

Sweet, here comes some Dank logic.

BTW, buck is right here. What he showed were mutually exclusive statements. Both cannot be right. If the Quran said God could be the greatest, that would be different, but the Bible says he cannot lie. It would be like me saying I have the largest penis if I had the largest penis. If I dont have the largest penis right now, I dont have the largest penis.

 

[JEDIYoda]

The Koran says God is the best deceiver. Quran 3:54

You mis understood the translation of that verse. You cannot take one verse out of context to prove your misguided point@!

http://discover-the-truth.com/2015/01/24/response-to-critics-claim-allah-is-a-deceiver-quran-354/

The aim of this article is to answer the claims made by Christian missionaries that Allah is a ‘deceiver’, and a ‘liar’, dealing with the word used in 8:58, 7:99 And 3:54. The verse we are going to examine is the following:


Transliteration:
Wamakaroo wamakara Allahu waAllahu khayru almakireena
Translation:
“And the disbelievers planned, but Allah planned. And Allah is the best of planners.” – Quran 3:54

The historical background for the verse is that the Jews ‘planned’ evil in order to get Jesus arrested and crucified. And Allah in the verse says as they planned evil, so too Allah planned to thwart their wicked plan. Christian missionaries have an issue with the words used for both the Jews and Allah. They prefer to translate this way:


“and [they] deceived and Allah deceived and Allah is the best of deceivers”

The above translation does not exist. It is only made up by crazy deluded missionaries in order to lead people astray. Arabic word(s) makr, Makara can be used negatively and for good. So when the Jews planned to get Jesus arrested and crucified, that was evil, whereas when Allah thwarted their evil plan by saving Jesus, this was good. So, the claim by missionaries that Allah is a deceiver for helping one of the Prophet’s from slaughter at the hands of evil, wicked people, these claims have no bearing on the passage historically.

Islamic scholar, Maulana Muhammad Shaffi mentions in his commentary on the verse that Allah’s planning involved no deception:


“In these verses the miraculous event of the Ascension of Sayyidna Isa (Jesus Christ) has been mentioned. ‘And they made a move’ refers to the evil designs of the Jews who planned to arrest him and to get him crucified.
The next sentence i.e., ‘and Allah made a move’ refers to the plan designed by Allah Almighty to save his Prophet Isa (Jesus) from their ill designs.
Let us begin with … translated as ‘and Allah is the best of those who make moves’. The word, makr in Arabic denotes a subtle and secret move or plan. If this is for a good purpose, it is good; and if this is for a bad purpose, it is bad. It is why the restriction of saiyy (… : evil) was placed with makr (…: move, plan) in: … (And evil plan besets none but its perpetrator – 35:43).” [1]

Maulana Muhammad Shaffi goes further on the word (‘Makr’) in volume 4 and writes:


“The word … (Makr) used in verse 21:… (say, ‘Allah is more swift in making plans’) means secret plan or move that could be good or bad. Whenever this word has become a part of the local language, care should be taken that it is not rendered as deception’. … It is obvious that Allah Ta’ala is free from it. The warning given in verse 23: … (your rebellion is, in fact, against your own-selves) tells us that the curse of injustice is certain and, much before matters are settled in the hereafter, one who is guilty of doing injustice must suffer from its evil consequences in this world as well. The Holy Prophet has said: ‘Allah Ta’ala hastens to repay mercy shown to relatives and favour done to people (whereby its blessings start becoming visible in this world, much before the Hereafter). And He hastens to repay injustices done and relationships severed (in that its consequences have to be faced within the life of this world). (reported by Tirmidhi and Ibn Majah with a hasan chain of narrators)
In another Hadith narrated by Sayyidah A’ishah…, the Holy Prophet said, ‘there are three sins the curse whereof falls on the sinner himself: Injustice, breach of trust and deception.’ (Reported by Abu ash-Shaykh and Ibn Marduwayh in Tafsir) (See Mazhari). [2]

Scholar Maulana Muhammad Ali


54a. Makr is explained by R as the turning of another with ingenuity or skill from that which he aims at, and he considers makr as of two sorts, a good one and an evil one. Therefore the best interpretation of the word Makara (including both sorts) is that adopted by T, viz he exercised craft, cunning, art, or skill in the management or ordering of affairs with excellent consideration or deliberation, and ability to manage according to his own free will (LL). The idea of the plan being contrived for an evil purpose or clandestinely, which is included in the significance of the word, has led many to take that idea as its exclusive significance, which is not the case. Makar-Llahu may also signify that Allah recompensed or requited them for their makr (T-LL). According to some, its original significance is the gathering of an affair and its strengthening (Rz). All these explanations show that it is the equivalent of the word plan, the good or evil nature of the plan being dependent on the object or doer’s intention. Allah is called here Khair al-makarin or the Best of planners, the qualifying word khair being inapplicable to an evil object.
54b. The Jews planned to put Jesus to death by crucifixion, and Allah made a plan to frustrate their plans; and Allah’s plan was successful… [3]

Glossary Of Islamic Terms: English–Arabic – Anwer Mahmoud Zanaty:


MAKR
Has two meanings:
1. Plotting or planning evil intent.
2. Planning for a good purpose: ‘Wa Makaru wa Makara Allah wa’LLahu Khairul Makereen’ (Surah Aali Imran 3:54. They planned and Allah planned and Allah is the best of planners’.
Makara = they plotted. Makara = He planned.
Makkar = plotter.
Makereen = plotters. [4]

The meaning of the Noble Qur’an – Abdullah Yusuf Ali


6078: Makara is applied both to plotting with an evil purpose and planning with a good purpose. Cf. 3:54, and 0. 392 ‘And the unbelievers plotted and planned, and Allah too planned, and the best of planners is Allah.’ [5]

The Message of The Quran – Muhammad Asad


44 Lit., they schemed’ – here referring to those among the Jews who refused to acknowledge Jesus as a prophet and tried to destroy him. [6]

The above Islamic scholars make it quite clear that when Makr is used for Allah there is no deception. It depends on the object, hence, was it for a good purpose or evil? When Allah plans to thwart the evil plans of disbelievers against Jesus, that is good. How is this in any way evil? Is it wrong to help an innocent person and stopping an evil plan?

 

[realibrad]

nvm

Yes, but, if one were true, the other cannot be true. He did not say one is right and the other is wrong. He said both cannot be true.

 

[JEDIYoda]

Give an example and I'll show you why you're wrong

dude...chill you are wrong!!

 

[mect]

We can't walk all the way across the room either because we'd have to go half way there first and then another half etc etc.

This isn't a paradox mate.

But religion is a paradox. Have you ever read the bible? Paradox is a core attribute of most religions.

 

[realibrad]

....

OHHHH SNAPPPPP!!!!!! SICK REBUTTAL FTW!!!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a_6CZ2JaEuc

 

[dank69]

Give an example and I'll show you why you're wrong.

Sweet, here comes some Dank logic.

BTW, buck is right here. What he showed were mutually exclusive statements. Both cannot be right. If the Quran said God could be the greatest, that would be different, but the Bible says he cannot lie. It would be like me saying I have the largest penis if I had the largest penis. If I dont have the largest penis right now, I dont have the largest penis.

How about rational wiki logic. Lying is a subset of deceit, therefore it is possible to be deceitful without lying.

Don't worry, realibrad, someday you may actually catch me being wrong. It just won't be today. Keep trying little buddy.

 

[buckshot24]

But religion is a paradox. Have you ever read the bible? Paradox is a core attribute of most religions.

Support your assertions please.

 

[buckshot24]

How about rational wiki logic. Lying is a subset of deceit, therefore it is possible to be deceitful without lying.

Don't worry, realibrad, someday you may actually catch me being wrong. It just won't be today. Keep trying little buddy.

Do you have an example? I'm not going to rationalwiki to look.

 

[jonks]

It's hard to believe it's not satire. It reads exactly as if leftists were caricaturing conservative positions.

So does WorldNutDaily, but it's 100% for serial.

 

[realibrad]

How about rational wiki logic. Lying is a subset of deceit, therefore it is possible to be deceitful without lying.

Don't worry, realibrad, someday you may actually catch me being wrong. It just won't be today. Keep trying little buddy.

So your argument is that in the context of the link you posted, lying is a subset there for popcorn?

Sick moves dank.

 

[buckshot24]

You mis understood the translation of that verse. You cannot take one verse out of context to prove your misguided point@!

I'm not going to get caught up in the weeds on an ancillary point like this. I'm not persuaded that you're right and I can post links arguing against your link, but I won't.

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

Do you have an example? I'm not going to rationalwiki to look.

I think we've had this conversation before, and ultimately you resort to

 

[buckshot24]

Islamic scholar, Maulana Muhammad Shaffi mentions in his commentary on the verse that Allah’s planning involved no deception:

Hahaha. I couldn't resist this one. Allah's plan tricked the disciples into believing Jesus died and rose again when he didn't (according to the Koran). This isn't a deception?