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School suspends kid for voicing opinion in opposition to homosexuality

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Moonbeam said:
Isn't that what the Constitution does? You are an asshole, OK, just my opinion, fire fire fire in a crowed theater, not OK.
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To a certain degree. Yelling fire in a crowded theater (when there is no fire, of course) can cause physical damage and harm to people.

Telling your friend in class you think homosexuals (or creationism, or evolution, or religion) is wrong is not the same thing. There was no malicious intent. There was no call to action.
 
randomrogue said:
Change the word "homosexuality" to "blacks", "jews", "handicapped people", or what you like.

It's 2011. Part of the population is homosexual. It always will be. Deal with it.
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They can't because they rationalize it's all by choice. In this way they perpetuate the myth that's gays have chosen evil. You can't make folk filled with vicious lies see them for what they are. It would make them feel like bigots and they hate other kinds of bigotry and don't want to join that club. They are Christians, mostly, and pretend to themselves they are THE GOOD. This is how the devil works his magic, to assure you your own evil is good. The devil is nothing more than the certainty there is such a thing as evil. But there is only God and God is 100% love.
 
Apple Of Sodom said:
To a certain degree. Yelling fire in a crowded theater (when there is no fire, of course) can cause physical damage and harm to people.

Telling your friend in class you think homosexuals (or creationism, or evolution, or religion) is wrong is not the same thing. There was no malicious intent. There was no call to action.
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I think in my first post I said the teacher was an idiot, infected with a hatred of homophobic bigots, just another kind of bigot.
 
randomrogue said:
What apple said above is very good. I suppose I question where the line is drawn with a kid who will just parrot what his parents say. I for one think gay sex is disgusting. However I don't have a problem with homosexuals. So if someone then comes out and says "homosexuals are wrong" are they expressing an opinion or are they being intolerant?
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I would say when there is a suggestion or call to action that something should be done. "Homosexuality is wrong," is a fine statement. "Creationism is wrong," is also a fine statement.

"Homesexuality is wrong. I wish they would all die."
"Creationism is wrong. I wouldn't hire a Christian if my life depended on it."

Those show intolerance.

A teacher reprimanding a kid in class who simply expressed an opinion is showing intolerance. He could have said "I think you are wrong." Instead he took action against the kid. THAT is intolerance.
 
randomrogue said:
Being opposed to pistachio ice cream doesn't make anyone a bigot but being against a group of people does.
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But if he's anything like most Christians, he condemns the act, not the individual.

That is, he condemns eating pistachio ice cream, not those who do.

Or at least that's what Christians are supposed to do.
 
Apple Of Sodom said:
I would say when there is a suggestion or call to action that something should be done. "Homosexuality is wrong," is a fine statement. "Creationism is wrong," is also a fine statement.

"Homesexuality is wrong. I wish they would all die."
"Creationism is wrong. I wouldn't hire a Christian if my life depended on it."

Those show intolerance.

A teacher reprimanding a kid in class who simply expressed an opinion is showing intolerance. He could have said "I think you are wrong." Instead he took action against the kid. THAT is intolerance.
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Just to be clear; if a student, sitting in the same classroom as a mixed race student, told his friend that he thought interracial marriage was wrong, that should be tolerated as long as he didn't threaten the other student?
 
Moonbeam said:
I think in my first post I said the teacher was an idiot, infected with a hatred of homophobic bigots, just another kind of bigot.
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The teacher is a bigot as he showed intolerance. The kid is not a bigot as his opinion differed but he showed no intolerance toward the group.

Bigotry is not racism, sexism, or any other toward of prejudice. Bigotry means you are INTOLERANT of those people. That is why we have different words. The kid is prejudiced against homosexuals...but he didn't show intolerance.
 
Apple Of Sodom said:
Most of you preach about tolerance and that bigotry is wrong. Please keep in mind that you must tolerate the bigots. It is their choice to be that way, just as it is a Muslim's choice to practice Islam or a Christian's choice to go to church.

Hypocrites.

This kid did nothing wrong. He expressed a belief and didn't cause any trouble and expressed no malice. You can be accepting of things without approving of them, as this kid did.

This kid believes homosexuality is wrong, just as many of you believe there is no god, or that cheating on your wife is immoral. Who the fuck are you to say what he believes is wrong?
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Excellent post!!!
 
Apple Of Sodom said:
It's 2011. Part of the population is pedophile. It always will be. Deal with it.

Not that they are the same (pedophiles harm others, but it is widely believed it is not a choice someone makes.) Do you see how silly your argument is?

We have people that do not like others for whatever reason. It is not your place to judge them. As long as they are tolerant, regardless of their fucked up views, then there is no issue.
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Using a pedophile example to try to make my argument sound silly is counter productive.

I'm going to agree to disagree on this one. I'll admit I have no patience for those who judge people based on their skin color, sexual orientation, or disabilities. If that makes me wrong so be it. I'm not hurting anyone. I fear though that people who do judge people on these things are hurting people.
 
Blackjack200 said:
Just to be clear; if a student, sitting in the same classroom as a mixed race student, told his friend that he thought interracial marriage was wrong, that should be tolerated as long as he didn't threaten the other student?
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As long as he tolerated the other student, absolutely, yes, 100%. Just as if a black student sat in a white class and said "I think we should all be paid reparations for slavery" or if an atheist told a classroom of Christians that creationism is wrong.

Well adjusted children and adults can disagree with something while still being tolerant of it.

I think abortion is wrong (except in a few cases) but I am tolerant of those who have them. The people who bomb abortion clinics think it is wrong and are intolerant of those who have them. They are bigots; I am not. Do you see the difference?
 
ShawnD1 said:
For things like homosexuality, yeah it usually is. Their being gay does not affect you, so why would you care about it? Homosexuals are disliked because they are different. That's what bigotry is all about - thinking something is wrong just because it is different.
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I emphatically disagree. It's not hate or irrational phobia of people different from myself that motivates my opposition to the homosexual lifestyle. It is simply that I view two men in a sexual relationship as immoral.

I don't see how a reasonable person calls that bigotry. You can call it wrong, or stupid, or whatever, but I don't see how I'm being bigoted.
 
randomrogue said:
Using a pedophile example to try to make my argument sound silly is counter productive.

I'm going to agree to disagree on this one. I'll admit I have no patience for those who judge people based on their skin color, sexual orientation, or disabilities. If that makes me wrong so be it. I'm not hurting anyone. I fear though that people who do judge people on these things are hurting people.
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I think a swinging lifestyle is wrong, but I tolerate it and have friends who are swingers. I don't judge them, don't really care about it, but it is wrong for me. I am tolerant of it though. Big difference, and a HUGE issue in this country as that people cannot politely disagree without overreacting (e.g. sending a kid to principal and giving detention.) This is the same mentality that gets people beaten to death for wearing a NY Giants jacket.
 
Apple Of Sodom said:
As long as he tolerated the other student, absolutely, yes, 100%. Just as if a black student sat in a white class and said "I think we should all be paid reparations for slavery" or if an atheist told a classroom of Christians that creationism is wrong.
Well adjusted children and adults can disagree with something while still being tolerant of it.

I think abortion is wrong (except in a few cases) but I am tolerant of those who have them. The people who bomb abortion clinics think it is wrong and are intolerant of those who have them. They are bigots; I am not. Do you see the difference?
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No, that's different. The correct analogy would be if the black student said that "being white is wrong". Or if the atheist told the classroom that "being Christian is wrong".

He was not attacking an idea, he was attacking a group of people. Do you see the difference?
 
Atreus21 said:
But if he's anything like most Christians, he condemns the act, not the individual.

That is, he condemns eating pistachio ice cream, not those who do.

Or at least that's what Christians are supposed to do.
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When is the last time Christians did what they were "supposed to do"? Most are hypocrits with a do as say not as i do mentality.
 
He should have saved his personal convictions for conversations outside of class. If you going to start arguments like this in a class room setting you'll need some hard facts, not a bible background, to make any headway and stay away from being dubbed a bigot. Of course, we weren't there, and it sounds like the teacher may have gone haywire. Closet gay?
 
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Atreus21 said:
I emphatically disagree. It's not hate or irrational phobia of people different from myself that motivates my opposition to the homosexual lifestyle. It is simply that I view two men in a sexual relationship as immoral.

I don't see how a reasonable person calls that bigotry. You can call it wrong, or stupid, or whatever, but I don't see how I'm being bigoted.
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What they don't understand is that it doesn't matter why you think it is wrong, just as it doesn't matter why they think it is acceptable. We all have differing opinions and those opinions should be respected. The key part of bigotry is intolerance.

You aren't being bigoted, and you would think that people defending a protected class (sexuality) would also be willing to defend your beliefs (another protected class, religion) even if they think it is wrong.

I think Islam is a silly religion rooted in hate, fear, intolerance and misogyny. I would be the first on the picket line if someone tried to outlaw that religion.
 
ch33zw1z said:
He should have saved his personal convictions for conversations outside of class. If you going to start arguments like this in a class room settings you'll need some hard facts, not a bible background, to make any headway and stay away from being dubbed a bigot. Of course, we weren't there, and it sounds like the teacher may have gone haywire. Closet gay?
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The kid didnt start it.
 
Blackjack200 said:
No, that's different. The correct analogy would be if the black student said that "being white is wrong". Or if the atheist told the classroom that "being Christian is wrong".

He was not attacking an idea, he was attacking a group of people. Do you see the difference?
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He can say that, as long as he is tolerant of it. And you fail to understand that "creationists" are a group of people. He wasn't attacking gays; he was stating the idea that having a homosexual relationship is acceptable. To him, it is not. Respect it and move on, as long as he causes no harm and shows tolerance.
 
soulcougher73 said:
When is the last time Christians did what they were "supposed to do"? Most are hypocrits with a do as say not as i do mentality.
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Some are some aren't. I'll admit many Christians are more sinful than those they regard as intolerably sinful. Religion has been used many times as an excuse for hatred.

But I'm not wrong. Christianity teaches to hate sin, not the sinner. Ultimate judgment of sinners is God's job, not ours. Those that usurp that authority are very dangerous individuals.
 
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Since it appears that the kid didn't stand on top of his desk and yell as loud as he could, "ALL Faggots must die!", it sounds like the teacher was just over-zealous in his pro-homosexual agenda...
Since the teacher brought up the subject for discussion in the class, IMO, the kid was perfectly within his rights to express his beliefs that homosexuality is wrong.

It doesn't sound like he badgered any gays about it, nor that he tried to use his "bully pulpit" to force his beliefs on anyone else...he simply stated his opinion based on his beliefs.

This country is getting more and more fucked by the "politically correct police" over stupid shit like this.

"I believe homosexuality is wrong."

"OMFG! You biggoted asshole! You should be kicked out of school!"

Fuck that. What the kid is reputed to have said is fine...it's the teacher who was over the line.

Not accepting someone else's "lifestyle" isn't bigotry...it's personal beliefs, personal values, whatever the hell you want to call it. It's not like he was trying to have all gays locked up for their sexual orientation...
 
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