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School suspends kid for voicing opinion in opposition to homosexuality

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The teacher overreacted, pure and simple. First off, the teacher should never have been talking about politics or controversial topics without being prepared that some students might not share his viewpoint. Second, if he felt the comments about homosexuality were inappropriate, he could have said that his classroom was a place of tolerance, regardless of one's personal opinions on certain matters (such as homosexuality). Suspending the kid over his opinion is ridiculously over the line (provided the story actually played out as is described here).
 
Craig234 said:
A student says 'we should bring back slavery', 'the holocaust was good'.

Clearly it makes sense for teachers who encounter this to 'teach' to it.

I don't see punishing the child for saying it.

What gets tricky is a student walking up to a group of blacks and saying 'we should bring back slavery' is offensive, inciting, insulting, etc.

But there's a line to draw between where to limit and allow unpopular speech.
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I would agree with you on this. Making a statement that you think slavery is acceptable is different than trying to start a fight with a group of black students. Telling your friend that you think homosexuality is wrong is quite different from showing up and the Gay And Lesbian support meeting and telling them they are all sinners.

Teachers should know better and should stay away from politically and religiously charged topics when teaching immature students. Those students should also not be punished for expressing an opinion in a tolerant manner.

"I think homosexuality is wrong" is quite different from saying "Fags should die."
 
Genx87 said:
You cant be serious can you? You know if the teacher took your advice this never would have happend.

Why is it on the child to keep their opinions to themselves or face punishment?
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The student, a 14 year old, brought his opinion in the form of a fact.
 
ch33zw1z said:
Acceptance? You're asking the wrong cat.

edit: College degrees are a dime a dozen now, just a piece of paper that says you test well. I say this not in defense of the teacher, but to point out a College degree doesn't mean you're smart.
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I simply meant he isn't fresh. He has been through several classes on ethics, tolerance, etc. I didn't mean he was smart by any means. Experienced in life more so than a 14 year old? Yes.
 
Apple Of Sodom said:
I simply meant he isn't fresh. He has been through several classes on ethics, tolerance, etc. I didn't mean he was smart by any means. Experienced in life more so than a 14 year old? Yes.
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I'm betting there's more to this story overall, like history between the teacher and student. That life experience helped the teacher in his "tolerance trap"!! (like a speed trap)
 
Genx87 said:
That would be accomplished easier if teachers didnt bring up these topics in classrooms that have literally nothing to do with the topic.
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I've already allowed that I might disagree with what the teacher did here. The problem is that we don't know what he said or did.

Apple Of Sodom said:
The teacher is an adult, ostensibly with a college degree. He should know better than to bring up such a charged topic to a group of 14-year-olds, and he should certainly know the difference between an opinion and bigotry. What the fuck did he expect?
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Ostensibly? lol, I think you mean presumably 😉
 
ch33zw1z said:
The student, a 14 year old, brought his opinion in the form of a fact.
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Bullshit. Whenever you state an opinion do you preface it with "I think" or "It is my opinion"? Do you say "Taco Bell has shitty food" or do you say "It is my opinion that Taco Bell has shitty food?" Do you say "Abortion is acceptable" or "I personally believe abortion is acceptable?"

An immature 14-year-old told his friend that being a homosexual is wrong. I didn't take it as a fact, because it isn't a fact, it is an opinion. Anyone who cannot infer this from the conversation snippet is a complete idiot. It must be really hard to not be able to discern the difference between a fact and opinion. When someone tells you "abortion is wrong" do you question your own beliefs because they were telling you a fact instead of their opinion?

"This place has the best burgers in town."
Is that a fact or an opinion?
 
Craig234 said:
A student says 'we should bring back slavery', 'the holocaust was good'.

Clearly it makes sense for teachers who encounter this to 'teach' to it.

I don't see punishing the child for saying it.

What gets tricky is a student walking up to a group of blacks and saying 'we should bring back slavery' is offensive, inciting, insulting, etc.

But there's a line to draw between where to limit and allow unpopular speech.
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Its not the job of a public school to teach morality.
 
Apple Of Sodom said:
Bullshit. Whenever you state an opinion do you preface it with "I think" or "It is my opinion"? Do you say "Taco Bell has shitty food" or do you say "It is my opinion that Taco Bell has shitty food?" Do you say "Abortion is acceptable" or "I personally believe abortion is acceptable?"

An immature 14-year-old told his friend that being a homosexual is wrong. I didn't take it as a fact, because it isn't a fact, it is an opinion. Anyone who cannot infer this from the conversation snippet is a complete idiot. It must be really hard to not be able to discern the difference between a fact and opinion. When someone tells you "abortion is wrong" do you question your own beliefs because they were telling you a fact instead of their opinion?

"This place has the best burgers in town."
Is that a fact or an opinion?
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Yes, yes I do. I preface my opinions with "think" "it's my opinion that..." "I feel" "I believe", you don't? Sucks for you.

A complete idiot = someone who speaks in absolutes when discussing opinions.

"This place has the best burgers in town." is a statement of fact. Both you and I know someone saying that is speaking out of opinion, but what about the guy next to him?

The 14 year old just learned a valuable life lesson. Know your audience, speak accordingly.

Opinions touted as facts has caused a whole boat load of pain and suffering throughout history.

I think he's lucky to learn this lesson at 14. My parents raised me to speak in absolutes about my beliefs as well, I didn't learn my lesson until my 20's.
 
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Apple Of Sodom said:
I question whether a lot of our teachers actually have degrees, especially in private schools.
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Really? With all the college grads running around out there? I'd question the value of the degree, sure, but at this point even people working retail and fast food jobs tend to have degrees.
 
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We will not tolerate intolerance!
 
ch33zw1z said:
The student, a 14 year old, brought his opinion in the form of a fact.
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Really? Seriously? That is a really silly position to take imo. Arguing what he said he was saying as a fact. Especially since not everybody will preface their opinions with "I believe" or "My opinion". And do you really believe the teacher believed that he was playing that off as a fact to his friend? Hardly as would most people. And even if he did try to play it off as a fact. So what? How does one prove something is "wrong"? Wrong is a word that describes something as good or bad. Good or bad are subjective based around ones own opinion.
 
Genx87 said:
Really? Seriously? That is a really silly position to take imo. Arguing what he said he was saying as a fact. Especially since not everybody will preface their opinions with "I believe" or "My opinion". And do you really believe the teacher believed that he was playing that off as a fact to his friend? Hardly as would most people. And even if he did try to play it off as a fact. So what? How does one prove something is "wrong"? Wrong is a word that describes something in a good or bad light. Good or bad are subjective based around ones own opinion.
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Silly != wrong. He should learn to speak then, not mutter some bs to his buddy behind him.
 
ch33zw1z said:
A complete idiot = someone who speaks in absolutes when discussing opinions.
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That's also your opinion. Did you forget to place the "I think that..." in front? Should everyone be required to do so whenever expressing their thoughts or else face consequences? If the teacher wasn't such a politically-correct thought control nazi, this whole event would have never happened.
 
ch33zw1z said:
Yes, yes I do. I preface my opinions with "think" "it's my opinion that..." "I feel" "I believe", you don't? Sucks for you.

A complete idiot = someone who speaks in absolutes when discussing opinions.

"This place has the best burgers in town." is a statement of fact. Both you and I know someone saying that is speaking out of opinion, but what about the guy next to him?

The 14 year old just learned a valuable life lesson. Know your audience, speak accordingly.

Opinions touted as facts has caused a whole boat load of pain and suffering throughout history.

I think he's lucky to learn this lesson at 14. My parents raised me to speak in absolutes about my beliefs as well, I didn't learn my lesson until my 20's.
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If you admit you know he is speaking an opinion. What in the hell makes you believe anybody else would take his comment about the best burgers in town as fact?

You just admitted even with your strict requirement to preface opinions being labeled as opinions you can see when people dont it is still an opinion.
 
Munky said:
That's also your opinion. Did you forget to place the "I think that..." in front? Should everyone be required to do so whenever expressing their thoughts or else face consequences? If the teacher wasn't such a politically-correct thought control nazi, this whole event would have never happened.
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That's a fact. True, that's not the only type of complete idiot, I'll give you that. Also true what you say about the teacher, he sounds like an a-hole just waiting for some intolerant little shit to challenge him.
 
ch33zw1z said:
That's a fact. True, that's not the only type of complete idiot, I'll give you that. Also true what you say about the teacher, he sounds like an a-hole just waiting for some intolerant little shit to challenge him.
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This is getting better by the post.

Prove it.
 
Genx87 said:
If you admit you know he is speaking an opinion. What in the hell makes you believe anybody else would take his comment about the best burgers in town as fact?

You just admitted even with your strict requirement to preface opinions being labeled as opinions you can see when people dont it is still an opinion.
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Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying, I can. And maybe not in every situation. That doesn't mean everyone can 🙂 The example was a cut 'n dry version of someone liking hamburgers. If only every conversation was that easy.
 
ch33zw1z said:
Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying, I can. And maybe not in every situation. That doesn't mean everyone can 🙂 The example was a cut 'n dry version of someone liking hamburgers. If only every conversation was that easy.
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Actually he labeled the burger joint as the "best" in town. How would he prove that as a fact? At this point I am starting to wonder if you know the difference between an opinion and a fact. Or if you cornered yourself and dont know your way out.
 
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