School Board Says Church Can't Visit Students On School Grounds

[BugsBunny1078]

Originally posted by: Orsorum
In my high school, the only adults allowed in the building are either staff/faculty members, parents, or visitors for presentations or staff members. Visitors were never allowed on school grounds to visit kids during lunch hours. This seems like an appropriate ban to me, and I agree that if a Muslim or Satanist member had gone to the school during lunch hours to meet with students they would have been protestedin a heartbeat by those same parents.

Well, your school must be a private school because a public school is like a public park in that during it's hours of operation anyone can go in and have a look around see how their tax dollars are put to work. Just because you don't often see community members in your school doesn't mean they were not allowed. It just means noone had any interest in it. Are there no trespassing signs up in the school? No sign indicates trespassing is allowed.
Due to my job at one time I had to do alot of work in schools and have worked in hundreds of them walking around the schools to estimate a job or find the area to be worked on I have never had anyone tell me "Hey, you can't be in here"
In fact the whole reason they are called public schools is because they are open to the public. There are people who take concern with it not just parents although I didn't see much of it at my high school either. But if it inerested you you can go around your local school and alot of schools even allow classroom volunteers( you may have to get a background check in some areas.) You also may raise some eyebrows if you're a middle aged man.

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: BugsBunny1078

Originally posted by: Orsorum
In my high school, the only adults allowed in the building are either staff/faculty members, parents, or visitors for presentations or staff members. Visitors were never allowed on school grounds to visit kids during lunch hours. This seems like an appropriate ban to me, and I agree that if a Muslim or Satanist member had gone to the school during lunch hours to meet with students they would have been protestedin a heartbeat by those same parents.

Well, your school must be a private school because a public school is like a public park in that during it's hours of operation anyone can go in and have a look around see how their tax dollars are put to work. Just because you don't often see community members in your school doesn't mean they were not allowed. It just means noone had any interest in it. Are there no trespassing signs up in the school? No sign indicates trespassing is allowed.
Due to my job at one time I had to do alot of work in schools and have worked in hundreds of them walking around the schools to estimate a job or find the area to be worked on I have never had anyone tell me "Hey, you can't be in here"
In fact the whole reason they are called public schools is because they are open to the public. There are people who take concern with it not just parents although I didn't see much of it at my high school either. But if it inerested you you can go around your local school and alot of schools even allow classroom volunteers( you may have to get a background check in some areas.) You also may raise some eyebrows if you're a middle aged man.

It's the same as the schools in my county. One must sign in at the front desk and have a legitimate reason for being in the school (having lunch with a child, speaking as part of a career day, volunteering to help with a field trip, etc.)

Otherwise, contrary to what you think, schools are NOT open to ANYONE to walk in and do whatever they want. That would be just insane and definitely would endanger the safety of the children (and staff) of the school. It's not like schools are malls.

 

[Nitemare]

Originally posted by: Mill

Originally posted by: Orsorum

Originally posted by: Mill
Problem with the Muslim/Satanist analogy is that there aren't many IF any that go to that school. Those Youth Pastors were there because the kids wanted them there.

It doesn't matter. Unless the visitors had a legitimate educational reason to be in the school, they should not be there.

I disagree. Motivational speakers and sports figures are there all the time. Their ideas are hardly education but more social and moral.

The only motivational speakers we had were they say no to drugs type...hardlt the same agenda as a Convert to Christianity or burn in hell message. They are doing nothing more than a curry favor the local Christian ministry. Now that we are on the topic, why is there a Fellowship of Christian Athletes in many schools, yet no other religious clubs/affiliations?

 

[kage69]

I disagree. Motivational speakers and sports figures are there all the time. Their ideas are hardly education but more social and moral.

Talk about your faulty comparisons! Motivational speakers and sports figures are INVITED to speak at schools, and usually a dedicated time and place are allocated for their visit. These churchies are walking in, un-invited, during lunch, and basically pretending that the PUBLIC school is an extension of the church's courtyard. Let's compare apples to apples here people.


Oh and bugs, if you're going to try and debate this with us, you're going to have to stop making crap up and address the reality of the matter. So far everything I've seen you post is either pure opinion or pure, unadulterated bullsh1t. You still haven't clarified why you are so convinced that there was no sermonizing taking place, despite one being recorded on school grounds. Put up, or shut up.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: BugsBunny1078

Originally posted by: Orsorum
In my high school, the only adults allowed in the building are either staff/faculty members, parents, or visitors for presentations or staff members. Visitors were never allowed on school grounds to visit kids during lunch hours. This seems like an appropriate ban to me, and I agree that if a Muslim or Satanist member had gone to the school during lunch hours to meet with students they would have been protestedin a heartbeat by those same parents.

Well, your school must be a private school because a public school is like a public park in that during it's hours of operation anyone can go in and have a look around see how their tax dollars are put to work. Just because you don't often see community members in your school doesn't mean they were not allowed. It just means noone had any interest in it. Are there no trespassing signs up in the school? No sign indicates trespassing is allowed.
Due to my job at one time I had to do alot of work in schools and have worked in hundreds of them walking around the schools to estimate a job or find the area to be worked on I have never had anyone tell me "Hey, you can't be in here"
In fact the whole reason they are called public schools is because they are open to the public. There are people who take concern with it not just parents although I didn't see much of it at my high school either. But if it inerested you you can go around your local school and alot of schools even allow classroom volunteers( you may have to get a background check in some areas.) You also may raise some eyebrows if you're a middle aged man.

It's the same as the schools in my county. One must sign in at the front desk and have a legitimate reason for being in the school (having lunch with a child, speaking as part of a career day, volunteering to help with a field trip, etc.)

Otherwise, contrary to what you think, schools are NOT open to ANYONE to walk in and do whatever they want. That would be just insane and definitely would endanger the safety of the children (and staff) of the school. It's not like schools are malls.

Who would feel safe having a Catholic Priest hanging around a bunch of children?

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: Pennstate
WOW, I am so glad to see that our liberal and conservative members are agreeing with each other. It's a miracle in ATPN

and we wonder why our Student and then become our Adult Population is getting like

the Movie Dumb and Dumber.

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Who would feel safe having a Catholic Priest hanging around a bunch of children?

Heh.

Well, this guy is Baptist but, yeah, good point. 😉

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Who would feel safe having a Catholic Priest hanging around a bunch of children?

Heh.

Well, this guy is Baptist but, yeah, good point. 😉

Baptists are even whackier!

 

[kage69]

Baptists are even whackier!

I couldn't agree more. I never thought a group could be more psycho than hardcore Wiccans, but I was wrong...

 

[Orsorum]

Originally posted by: BugsBunny1078

Originally posted by: Orsorum
In my high school, the only adults allowed in the building are either staff/faculty members, parents, or visitors for presentations or staff members. Visitors were never allowed on school grounds to visit kids during lunch hours. This seems like an appropriate ban to me, and I agree that if a Muslim or Satanist member had gone to the school during lunch hours to meet with students they would have been protestedin a heartbeat by those same parents.

Well, your school must be a private school because a public school is like a public park in that during it's hours of operation anyone can go in and have a look around see how their tax dollars are put to work. Just because you don't often see community members in your school doesn't mean they were not allowed. It just means noone had any interest in it. Are there no trespassing signs up in the school? No sign indicates trespassing is allowed.
Due to my job at one time I had to do alot of work in schools and have worked in hundreds of them walking around the schools to estimate a job or find the area to be worked on I have never had anyone tell me "Hey, you can't be in here"
In fact the whole reason they are called public schools is because they are open to the public. There are people who take concern with it not just parents although I didn't see much of it at my high school either. But if it inerested you you can go around your local school and alot of schools even allow classroom volunteers( you may have to get a background check in some areas.) You also may raise some eyebrows if you're a middle aged man.

It was very much a public school, and no, people could not just walk into the building whenever they felt like it.

 

[Mill]

Originally posted by: kage69

I disagree. Motivational speakers and sports figures are there all the time. Their ideas are hardly education but more social and moral.

Talk about your faulty comparisons! Motivational speakers and sports figures are INVITED to speak at schools, and usually a dedicated time and place are allocated for their visit. These churchies are walking in, un-invited, during lunch, and basically pretending that the PUBLIC school is an extension of the church's courtyard. Let's compare apples to apples here people.


Oh and bugs, if you're going to try and debate this with us, you're going to have to stop making crap up and address the reality of the matter. So far everything I've seen you post is either pure opinion or pure, unadulterated bullsh1t. You still haven't clarified why you are so convinced that there was no sermonizing taking place, despite one being recorded on school grounds. Put up, or shut up.

The minister was invited by the students...

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: Mill

Originally posted by: kage69

I disagree. Motivational speakers and sports figures are there all the time. Their ideas are hardly education but more social and moral.

Talk about your faulty comparisons! Motivational speakers and sports figures are INVITED to speak at schools, and usually a dedicated time and place are allocated for their visit. These churchies are walking in, un-invited, during lunch, and basically pretending that the PUBLIC school is an extension of the church's courtyard. Let's compare apples to apples here people.


Oh and bugs, if you're going to try and debate this with us, you're going to have to stop making crap up and address the reality of the matter. So far everything I've seen you post is either pure opinion or pure, unadulterated bullsh1t. You still haven't clarified why you are so convinced that there was no sermonizing taking place, despite one being recorded on school grounds. Put up, or shut up.

The minister was invited by the students...

So are drug dealers

 

[Orsorum]

Originally posted by: Mill

Originally posted by: kage69

I disagree. Motivational speakers and sports figures are there all the time. Their ideas are hardly education but more social and moral.

Talk about your faulty comparisons! Motivational speakers and sports figures are INVITED to speak at schools, and usually a dedicated time and place are allocated for their visit. These churchies are walking in, un-invited, during lunch, and basically pretending that the PUBLIC school is an extension of the church's courtyard. Let's compare apples to apples here people.


Oh and bugs, if you're going to try and debate this with us, you're going to have to stop making crap up and address the reality of the matter. So far everything I've seen you post is either pure opinion or pure, unadulterated bullsh1t. You still haven't clarified why you are so convinced that there was no sermonizing taking place, despite one being recorded on school grounds. Put up, or shut up.

The minister was invited by the students...

It doesn't matter if they're invited by the students, speakers and guests are invited by the school administration.

 

[Nitemare]

Originally posted by: Mill

Originally posted by: kage69

I disagree. Motivational speakers and sports figures are there all the time. Their ideas are hardly education but more social and moral.

Talk about your faulty comparisons! Motivational speakers and sports figures are INVITED to speak at schools, and usually a dedicated time and place are allocated for their visit. These churchies are walking in, un-invited, during lunch, and basically pretending that the PUBLIC school is an extension of the church's courtyard. Let's compare apples to apples here people.


Oh and bugs, if you're going to try and debate this with us, you're going to have to stop making crap up and address the reality of the matter. So far everything I've seen you post is either pure opinion or pure, unadulterated bullsh1t. You still haven't clarified why you are so convinced that there was no sermonizing taking place, despite one being recorded on school grounds. Put up, or shut up.

The minister was invited by the students...

So I can invite hookers on campus?

 

[Mill]

Originally posted by: Orsorum

Originally posted by: Mill

Originally posted by: kage69

I disagree. Motivational speakers and sports figures are there all the time. Their ideas are hardly education but more social and moral.

Talk about your faulty comparisons! Motivational speakers and sports figures are INVITED to speak at schools, and usually a dedicated time and place are allocated for their visit. These churchies are walking in, un-invited, during lunch, and basically pretending that the PUBLIC school is an extension of the church's courtyard. Let's compare apples to apples here people.


Oh and bugs, if you're going to try and debate this with us, you're going to have to stop making crap up and address the reality of the matter. So far everything I've seen you post is either pure opinion or pure, unadulterated bullsh1t. You still haven't clarified why you are so convinced that there was no sermonizing taking place, despite one being recorded on school grounds. Put up, or shut up.

The minister was invited by the students...

It doesn't matter if they're invited by the students, speakers and guests are invited by the school administration.

And the school admin didn't have problems with it for years. Recent events made them changer their mind.

 

[Orsorum]

Originally posted by: Mill

And the school admin didn't have problems with it for years. Recent events made them changer their mind.

With regards to the ministers or with regards to motivational speakers? It doesn't change the fact that these men are on campus, with no educational purpose, during school hours. If they want to have a school club that meets after school, that's another issue.

 

[Mill]

Originally posted by: Orsorum

Originally posted by: Mill

And the school admin didn't have problems with it for years. Recent events made them changer their mind.

With regards to the ministers or with regards to motivational speakers? It doesn't change the fact that these men are on campus, with no educational purpose, during school hours. If they want to have a school club that meets after school, that's another issue.

The board changed their minds and the populace is against it. I'm just saying that we had youth ministers eat with us in HS and nary a problem was caused or raised by anyone. If no one was complaining then what is the issue? Oh, that they are scared of the Feds.

 

[kage69]

It doesn't matter if they're invited by the students, speakers and guests are invited by the school administration.

Thank you. I thought it went without saying that students aren't the voice of authority on school grounds.

I find it hard to believe no one complained when there's a minister giving a sermon in the middle of lunch. My HS had complaints filed with the principles office when we had a bible nut literally 4" off school grounds trying to give away bibles and decrying all things related to popular music and fashion an affront to his lord.

 

[Mill]

Originally posted by: kage69

It doesn't matter if they're invited by the students, speakers and guests are invited by the school administration.

Thank you. I thought it went without saying that students aren't the voice of authority on school grounds.

I find it hard to believe no one complained when there's a minister giving a sermon in the middle of lunch. My HS had complaints filed with the principles office when we had a bible nut literally 4" off school grounds trying to give away bibles and decrying all things related to popular music and fashion an affront to his lord.

Where does it say he was sermonizing at lunch?

 

[kage69]

Actually, it doesn't - it says the visits were made during lunch, and on one occasion, a sermon was recorded on tape by a faculty member. Lunch + sermon = sermon during lunch. If you're privy to more info on it, please, share it with the rest of us.

 

[SuperTool]

Originally posted by: Mill

Originally posted by: kage69

It doesn't matter if they're invited by the students, speakers and guests are invited by the school administration.

Thank you. I thought it went without saying that students aren't the voice of authority on school grounds.

I find it hard to believe no one complained when there's a minister giving a sermon in the middle of lunch. My HS had complaints filed with the principles office when we had a bible nut literally 4" off school grounds trying to give away bibles and decrying all things related to popular music and fashion an affront to his lord.

Where does it say he was sermonizing at lunch?

It doesn't matter. I don't care if he was talking about flowers, strangers have no business talking to students on school grounds. If they want to come talk to the students, they need to get vetted and go through official channels and have teachers or administrators present. I mean I can go to a school, and just start talking to kids like we are pals?

 

[Mill]

Originally posted by: kage69
Actually, it doesn't - it says the visits were made during lunch, and on one occasion, a sermon was recorded on tape by a faculty member. Lunch + sermon = sermon during lunch. If you're privy to more info on it, please, share it with the rest of us.

Where does it say a sermon was recorded on tape? 😕

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: Mill

Originally posted by: kage69
Actually, it doesn't - it says the visits were made during lunch, and on one occasion, a sermon was recorded on tape by a faculty member. Lunch + sermon = sermon during lunch. If you're privy to more info on it, please, share it with the rest of us.

Where does it say a sermon was recorded on tape? 😕

But, armed with a videotape, the board attorney told the group that a sermon Rev. Shaver recently delivered showed that the visits were all bringing church to school. On the tape, Rev. Shaver says: "There's no reason why I shouldn't be able to go down there, sit down and have lunch with our kids. And if I want to talk about Jesus, there's nothing wrong with it."



But, now that I read it again...it appears the sermon was in the church and he was talking about his visits to the school. But, he does admit talking to the kids about Jesus.

 

[kage69]

Ugh. I mean, MMMmmm MMM! Humble pie!

My sincere apologies, I skimed through it too quick I guess, in particular...

But, armed with a videotape, the board attorney told the group that a sermon Rev. Shaver recently delivered showed that the visits were all bringing church to school. On the tape, Rev. Shaver says: "There's no reason why I shouldn't be able to go down there, sit down and have lunch with our kids. And if I want to talk about Jesus, there's nothing wrong with it."

I should have read it again before posting today, rather than going on memory about what I read yesterday.
While I feel bad about that, it doesn't change my mind in the least. To be honest, I don't see a lot of difference between a minister trying to extoll the virtues of Jesus, and a real sermon. The pulpit would be the only thing missing.

Sorry bugs... :frown:

 

[kage69]

Ugh. I mean, MMMmmm MMM! Humble pie!

My sincere apologies, I skimed through it too quick I guess, in particular...

But, armed with a videotape, the board attorney told the group that a sermon Rev. Shaver recently delivered showed that the visits were all bringing church to school. On the tape, Rev. Shaver says: "There's no reason why I shouldn't be able to go down there, sit down and have lunch with our kids. And if I want to talk about Jesus, there's nothing wrong with it."

I should have read it again before posting today, rather than going on memory about what I read yesterday.
While I feel bad about that, it doesn't change my mind in the least. To be honest, I don't see a lot of difference between a minister trying to extoll the virtues of Jesus, and a real sermon. The pulpit would be the only thing missing.

Sorry bugs... :frown:

Forgive DP too, the page went all nutty on me when I hit submit...